Whitfield Freestanding Quest Plus OAK question

[Ro3bert]

Probably whipping a dead horse here but does anyone have any idea how I could hook up outside air for this stove?

Frankly I'm tired of heating inside air and sending it outside. There is no way that I can see to get outside air to the stove other than moving it outdoors which would seem to defeat the whole purpose of the stove.

Here is a diagram of the rear cover. The pipe going through the rear cover that the manual says if for the OAK terminates near the input side of the convection air blower and I can't see a place where the combustion air enters the burn pot. It seems to be coming from the ash pan.

If anyone has suggestions they would be appreciated greatly. If OAK is a no go well so be it, I can't afford another, better stove.

I've spent three or four hours trying to include an image of the rear panel without success. I've read the sticky about how to do it and still can't do it. I can put it on Flickr, Google pictures and another site but can't figure out how to load an image into this forum's picture album. All I have been able to do is provide a URL. Sorry.


Click rear panel to see an inlarged view.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Probably whipping a dead horse here but does anyone have any idea how I could hook up outside air for this stove?

Frankly I'm tired of heating inside air and sending it outside. There is no way that I can see to get outside air to the stove other than moving it outdoors which would seem to defeat the whole purpose of the stove.

Here is a diagram of the rear cover. The pipe going through the rear cover that the manual says if for the OAK terminates near the input side of the convection air blower and I can't see a place where the combustion air enters the burn pot. It seems to be coming from the ash pan.

If anyone has suggestions they would be appreciated greatly. If OAK is a no go well so be it, I can't afford another, better stove.

I've spent three or four hours trying to include an image of the rear panel without success. I've read the sticky about how to do it and still can't do it. I can put it on Flickr, Google pictures and another site but can't figure out how to load an image into this forum's picture album. All I have been able to do is provide a URL. Sorry.


Click rear panel to see an inlarged view.

Some stoves require an adapter to install an OAK .... the stoves aren't all alike.

 

[Stovensen]

Ro3bert,

There is at least a couple of considerations, safetywise that I can think of here. Which is why our stove is contructed the way it is... first, the intake of the convectionblower and the intake of the combustionblower must by no means be able to interfere with each other.
The two individual air-intakes are physically well separated in the actual construction of the stove... good thing to know.

The convectionmotor being twice as powerful as the combustionmotor could easily choke the airstream of the combustionside, if it was allowed.

Second, if an installed OAK-tube gets blocked by wasps, a bird nest etc. then, the fact that it's only "loosely" connected to the rear plate in the vicinity of the convectionblower-intake, ensures that the performance of the stove is not affected in a harmful way.

From the construction of our Quest Plus stoves in this respect ( OAK-wise ) we can also deduce that Whitfield has made a priority... the best efficiency is obtained by letting the cold air enter the convection-air stream and not the combustion-air-stream. We cannot have both without choking the weakest part.
Also, the convectionmotor is twice as powerful as the combustionmotor for a reason... this is the motor that transports all the lovely BTU's ( kilowatts ) out in our houses.
Just my 2 cents.

PS, I don't have an OAK, since my house is very old with a lot of draught, but I'm sure the efficiency might be improved considerably if cold air from outside was allowed to enter in the vicinity of the convectionblower-intake.

 

[Ro3bert]

Stovenson

Oddly enough the owners manual states that if the stove is installed in a mobile home it "Must have a permannent outside air source."

Therefore there must be/have been a kit and/or instructions on how to accomplish that but I have been unable to Google one. I guess I'll PM Dave Gault, see if he has any information.

 

[Stovensen]

Hmm, when I come to think of it.... and as far as I remember, there is a small square hole next to the igniter. It's only visible when the burn pot is away. I've never really explored where it leads... This might be it...

Ro3bert, we have some exploration to do here, but not right now ;-) since our stove is doing its best to keep us warm in this unusual cold winter.
We'll get back to it later.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hmm, when I come to think of it.... and as far as I remember, there is a small square hole next to the igniter. It's only visible when the burn pot is away. I've never really explored where it leads... This might be it...

Ro3bert, we have some exploration to do here, but not right now ;-) since our stove is doing its best to keep us warm in this unusual cold winter.
We'll get back to it later.

But, but, you mean you aren't having a BBQ winter over there? What happened Al Gore visiting you folks these days?

 

[Stovensen]

Definitely no BBQ winter here, Smokey. But then again, Al Gore may be right... on Greenland they have plus centigrades, very unusual.
I've done a little home work on this. The meteorologists talk about the "temperature see-saw" also called the north atlantic oscillation.

Very interesting info here.

http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/climatechange/modelling_dynamics/bipolar_seesaw/

But what makes this see-saw oscillate the way it does these days? Global warming?, solar flares?

As for solar flares, we may be up for a super solar flare storm soon. I've read that they had one around 1859... northern lights were so bright that they could read news papers when they lit up :coolsmile:

But also a bit scary... have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TzIUlaQok

Communication may break down, you know. In 1859 telegraph-cables caught fire from the induced voltages.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Greenland is running both hot and cold.

Australia is getting nice summer snow storms.

And it looks like above 80 north is unloading another blast http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php .

The fine folks who blew the sunspot predictions are now saying a Dalton Minimum is likely. The Sun went blank again.

 

[Ro3bert]

Little by little I’m getting there but it won’t be until late spring or after I shut it down for the summer before I can really figure out if it is even possible to have an OAK.

This morning before I lit the stove I did some more investigating. Wanted, of course, to see if I could find how the combustion air got to the burn pot. Stovenson suggested there was a small hole behind the pot and there was, (it was full of ash) I could see it after removing the burn pot.

Cleaned the front end and especially the glass and left the burn pot out so I could see the hole when I turned the combustion air on. Sure enough I could see bits and pieces of ash coming out of the hole so at least that is a start.

With the rear plate off I tried to see where the hole was but the auger motor is in the way and also there is a switch (I’m thinking) off to the side that restricts the view of the hole. Maybe when I remove the auger motor in the spring I’ll be able to see the hole. Even then, with everything so closely packed together I’m not sure it is even possible to fabricate a tube to get air from the outside. Once the blower and auger motors are out a solution may present itself.

While I was in the USAF I had the privilege to help some engineers write maintenance manuals for part of a missile flight control system. One of the things those of us who were doing that job were told to write to the lowest common denominator i. e. KISS. Unfortunately the writer of the owner’s manual for the Quest Plus took that advice to heart with spades. For instance, some of the switches mentioned in the operating part of the manual are, apparently, not replaceable; they are never shown in the parts number section nor is the auger.

This is my first pellet stove and may be my only one. It doesn’t warm the whole house, not for lack of trying, but because of the original building (built in 1945 as a one room summer cottage) and is still inadequately insulated (long story not going into that). So the oil furnace is still with us.

In the spring when I take it apart I’ll post the further adventures of the Quest OAK as it develops.

Finally I checked with our local hardware store and presently they are charging $260/ton for Kentucky Kernel pellets plus a delivery charge. Guess I’ll have to check with HD and Lowe’s.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

With the back plate off the stove, you should see a pipe that originates at the rear of the stove, has an overtemp snap switch in it too.

The pipe is probably about 1-1/2 inches in diameter + or -

The pipe will also have a passage that connects directly to the inside of the mechanical cabinet too.

These stoves do not have an OAK specific connection for the combustion air.

Reason being as previously mentioned, in case of wasp nest, birds etc.

The reason that the manual says that you must use an OAK in a mobile home is that these houses are sealed up very tight, "USUALLY" and the required combustion air may not be available without lowering the O2 content in the house.


I have a triple wide and have 3 pellet stoves and only one has an OAK and its not even being used at present.

The house has an outiside fresh air mixer valve setup that allows some fresh air to enter and this keeps plenty available for the stoves.

Now we dont get -20F weather here so a little extra fresh air is just healthy.

You should be able to fasten a little flanged adapter onto the rear of the stoves back panel and hook it to the OAK.

If your vent is a direct type, any smoke that comes out the vent can/could be sucked back into the OAK and be noticed in the house.

I believe that the small amount of heat that I lose due to using room air for the stoves is far less of a worry than the advantage of having fresh air coming into the living spaces.

I have been in houses that are sealed up tight and they get soooooooooo stale in the winter months.

Cooking odors, pet odors and all other things combine to make what I feel is an unhealthy place to live.

We installed a central vacuum to allow all the dust a crap normally associated with houshold vacuuming to go outside and not back into the room.


Last winter when I replaced the Old Earthstove (positive pressure stove) with the Whitfields that have a negative pressure firebox, the amount of dust and really fine gray ash left on the furniture dropped substantially. ( Almost none now)

Personally, unless your house is really sealed up tight, I would not get too overly excited about having the OAK

The amount of air in CFM that the exhaust (draft fan) pulls through the firebox is relatively small so its not like you are going to have a huge wind howling across the floor heading to the stove.

Hope this helps some.

Snowy

 

[Ro3bert]

With the back plate off the stove, you should see a pipe that originates at the rear of the stove, has an overtemp snap switch in it too.

The pipe is probably about 1-1/2 inches in diameter + or -

The pipe will also have a passage that connects directly to the inside of the mechanical cabinet too.

These stoves do not have an OAK specific connection for the combustion air.

Reason being as previously mentioned, in case of wasp nest, birds etc.

The reason that the manual says that you must use an OAK in a mobile home is that these houses are sealed up very tight, "USUALLY" and the required combustion air may not be available without lowering the O2 content in the house.


I have a triple wide and have 3 pellet stoves and only one has an OAK and its not even being used at present.

The house has an outiside fresh air mixer valve setup that allows some fresh air to enter and this keeps plenty available for the stoves.

Now we dont get -20F weather here so a little extra fresh air is just healthy.

You should be able to fasten a little flanged adapter onto the rear of the stoves back panel and hook it to the OAK.

If your vent is a direct type, any smoke that comes out the vent can/could be sucked back into the OAK and be noticed in the house.

I believe that the small amount of heat that I lose due to using room air for the stoves is far less of a worry than the advantage of having fresh air coming into the living spaces.

I have been in houses that are sealed up tight and they get soooooooooo stale in the winter months.

Cooking odors, pet odors and all other things combine to make what I feel is an unhealthy place to live.

We installed a central vacuum to allow all the dust a crap normally associated with houshold vacuuming to go outside and not back into the room.


Last winter when I replaced the Old Earthstove (positive pressure stove) with the Whitfields that have a negative pressure firebox, the amount of dust and really fine gray ash left on the furniture dropped substantially. ( Almost none now)

Personally, unless your house is really sealed up tight, I would not get too overly excited about having the OAK

The amount of air in CFM that the exhaust (draft fan) pulls through the firebox is relatively small so its not like you are going to have a huge wind howling across the floor heading to the stove.

Hope this helps some.

Snowy

Snowy,

Your probably right on all counts except maybe for the tube you were menitoning to feed air into the burn pot. It is difficult when bending over the stove, flashlight in hand trying to see past the motors and that switch. I'll be able to get a better look when all that stuff is out of the way.

And now that you mention it when I put my hand over the exhaust pipe outside there is practically no air movement at least as much as I expected.

Took the convection air temp this morning, the meat thermometer read slightly byond the 220F mark with good, storng air flow.

Seasons Greetings,

Robert

 

[Stovensen]

Ro3bert, Today, with a cold stove when cleaning it, I took a couple of pics... one from the burn pot side and another from the opposite side.

The square hole continues to the rear of the stove in a narrow rectangular metal box and on the opposite side of it one of the two hi-limit switches is mounted. ( the other hi-limit switch is mounted near the hopper ).

This rectangular box has an opening pointing towards the combustionblower-housing ( as far away from the convectionblower-intake as possible ).

My camera was too big to get a decent shot of this intake-hole ( or do you say orifice? )

Basically I think this arrangement is made mainly for safetyreasons... to monitor the temperature in the burn pot area.
Worst case scenario: If the ash drawer is allowed to totally overflow with ash, then... the smoldering pellets will eventually spread their heat to the hi-limit switch at the rear of the rectangular metalbox. This should trip the hi-limit switch and turn off the pellet feed.

An emergency "nostril" soo to speak. An OAK-adaptor could easily be made to fit this "nostril"

Questions is... what is the optimal air ducting for an OAK-system? I mean... Only outside air for the combustionside, or what?

The way the Quest Plus stove is originally made from the factory all the outside air from an OAK-tube will certainly enter the convectionblower. Is this optimal? I don't know.

 

[Ro3bert]

Stovenson

Thanks for those great pictures. I tried to get the same of the high limit switch but the back of the stove is so close to the wall I wan't abel to get one.

Yesterday (after you menitoned the hole) before I fired the stove up I took the burn pot out and found the hole and after I cleaned the glass, closed the door and started the combustion blower and saw, indeed, bits and pieces of soot being blown out.

After what Snowy talked about I am no longer sure I am so concerned with OAK. In the spring when I shut down I'll take it all apart to clean it up then look more closely at the situation and decide whether it is so important to have OAK.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.

Robert

 

[Stovensen]

Stovenson

Thanks for those great pictures. I tried to get the same of the high limit switch but the back of the stove is so close to the wall I wan't abel to get one.

Yesterday (after you menitoned the hole) before I fired the stove up I took the burn pot out and found the hole and after I cleaned the glass, closed the door and started the combustion blower and saw, indeed, bits and pieces of soot being blown out.

After what Snowy talked about I am no longer sure I am so concerned with OAK. In the spring when I shut down I'll take it all apart to clean it up then look more closely at the situation and decide whether it is so important to have OAK.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.

Robert

Also Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours

I'm sure we'll get back to this OAK-question, but i need to gain more knowledge about many details here... Hearth.com is the best place to start learning.

Until then, cheers
Bo