Whitfield Prodigy II advice needed

[Oregonk5]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Feels good to be official!

We've had our Prodigy II for about 6 years and it has always ran well. The door seal and glass seals have been ragged for some time so before the season, I decided to treat it to a tune-up.

I disassembled the stove and cleaned it immaculately. Replaced door and glass gaskets, oiled the motors, etc.

Now a couple interesting things have developed:

1) The stove generates way more ash than it used too, like triple the amount! Before I would only have to clean out the ash pan once a week...now it's every day, conservatively! The ash also has a different consistency...it's lighter and fluffier.

2) The glass gets dirty almost immediately. It use to creep in from around the gaps in the glass seal and slowly fill in the glass. Now it is an even coating on the glass within an hour of running, after a day you can't see through the glass anymore. It vacuums off easily, not sooty....just a coating of ash it seems. Especially bad on low speed (I know, most stoves don't run well on 1st speed) unfortunately it isn't quite cold enough to running on two or higher yet.

The flame is burning lively and bright orange, no black tips or blue flame. The flames are 3-4" high, about where they were before.

Could my feed rate be too high? Like I said, there aren't unburned pellets in the grate or ash pan so it seems like the rate is ok? I also cleaned the flue pipe (straight 3' horizontal pipe out the wall) so I know it isn't plugged.

I have the factory owners manual and downloaded a guide on using a mag gauge, etc but that all seems highly technical. Any ideas? I can post photos of the glass and burn if that helps.

*Sorry to be long winded but I forgot one more thing. We've been burning Pacific Pellets for several years and haven't had a problem. I'm burning a few bags leftover from last year and some fresh bags. They seem like there is more dust in them than I remember but that could just be my imagination. I believe they are mostly softwood pellets made from mill and casing off cuts.

 

[mralias]

Welcome. Are you using different pellets than prior to cleaning? Did you clean the entire vent system as well?

 

[Oregonk5]

Welcome. Are you using different pellets than prior to cleaning? Did you clean the entire vent system as well?

Nope, same pellets as before. I did clean the vent, blew it all out with air...I mean that thing was spotless when I was done!

 

[mralias]

If it was running well before and you have not change your vent configuration then that should not be the issue. As far as the glass goes, I may be reaching on this one but you did put back the air-wash system after you replaced the gasket and then checked the seal? I would go buy a bag of good pellets and see if that makes any difference in the ash. Everything else, based on what you have said seems like it should be. Hope others will chime in that have one of these stove's if they have other suggestions.

 

[Oregonk5]

If it was running well before and you have not change your vent configuration then that should not be the issue. As far as the glass goes, I may be reaching on this one but you did put back the air-wash system after you replaced the gasket and then checked the seal? I would go buy a bag of good pellets and see if that makes any difference in the ash. Everything else, based on what you have said seems like it should be. Hope others will chime in that have one of these stove's if they have other suggestions.

Mmmm...what is the air wash system??? I put back everything it originally had. Good idea on trying another bag of pellets.

 

[mralias]

Air-wash system on the Advantage stove is three brackets held on by 4 screws running across the top of the door designed to keep the stove glass clean.(Page 29 of the manual) I don't know if on your stove they are brackets or just gaps in the gasket like other stoves have. I can't find your manual but I would bet it is in there someplace. If you covered the air-wash on your stove with the gasket it may be one reason for the dirty glass. Check the manual closely for that.

 

[Oregonk5]

Air-wash system on the Advantage stove is three brackets held on by 4 screws running across the top of the door designed to keep the stove glass clean.(Page 29 of the manual) I don't know if on your stove they are brackets or just gaps in the gasket like other stoves have. I can't find your manual but I would bet it is in there someplace. If you covered the air-wash on your stove with the gasket it may be one reason for the dirty glass. Check the manual closely for that.

Wow, you just jogged my memory! When we bought the stove the guy gave me a piece of bent metal that went over the top of the glass. He said he took it off because it kept the door from closing. I remembered when I changed the glass gasket and put that piece back on and the screw heads did hit on the firebox, not allowing the door to shut. I put different screws on and it closed ok but maybe it is blocking the air flow on the glass? I will take it off and try it. Thanks!

 

[Oregonk5]

So I took that piece of metal off and the stove ran for about 6 hours on setting 2 with no accumulation on the glass. I had to get up about 4AM and turn it down to level one. By the time I got up at 9 the glass was covered.

So it definitely helped keeping the glass clean on higher levels. Either I'm just going to have to keep it on #2 or adjust air level on level #1?

 

[Oregonk5]

Still having heavy ash and dirty class. I cleaned the whole stove and flue out again and tried a different brand of pellets (Blazer). If anything the ash was worse and the glass was sootier than before.

 

[Bob P.]

Hows that prodigy burning for you. Just bought one and wanted to compare some notes on how yours burns and is configured.

Just put mine in the living room to see if my better half would like it and fired it off. Had it apart earlier in the garage, replaced the gaskets, had to remount the exhaust motor which had the mounting holes striped out of the original holes and gave it a thorough cleaning. I had it running in the garage a couple times to make sure everything is status quo. Got some bearing noise from the blower motor and the exhaust fan will need replaced soon if it isn't overdue already (still turning but bearings have some play and its just a matter of time).

I have the same problem with the glass but right now since the exhaust booster fan isn't running optimally, I don't think its getting the draft it needs to pull the air through the air wash system on the glass. Does your exhaust fan run at variable speeds based on its setting or is it wired to run at full speed always and how loud is it. whish I could find a comparable skeleton motor with the right shaft length instead of spending 150 on the whole unit.

How do you have it vented? direct or do you have a vertical rise on yours?

I'm not really impressed with the way that hall effect motor works on this unit. especially when I go down in settings ( kind of dies out, restarts and then finds its speed. If I try to run it on 1 or 2, the combustion fan seems to run too slow and gives me a lazy flame and occasionally flame will go out and restart. I've been messing with the feed and blower adjustments so maybe I haven't dialed it in yet. Same kind of thing on yours?

I like this little stove though. I'm gonna put some money into it and try and get it to run pretty optimally. I may try and design a new exhaust box for it that mounts to the exhaust port with a variable speed sealed motor exhaust fan kind of like a power vent so I can get rid of this!! see attached unless I get some good feedback that makes me keep this design!! Just need to get a little more familiar with this set up and what works well with other prodigy owners

Bob


Ignore the silver pipe........Just for testing.

 

[wwert]

Sounds like you moved the damper

 

[Bob P.]

No damper on this bad boy. Clear path to the squirrel cage via a tube attached to the back of the burn pot with gasket on it. Gasket is good and it burns awesome on 3 and 4 setting but below three the blower seems to be running too slow.

Something else I noticed when it was chugging along is that it would flame up and then die down due to the pellets dropping inconsistently. (inconsistently but regularly inconsistent). The auger was cycling at an even pace and interval, and the blower was running constant. Just seemed like it would drop more pellets at a certain time or location on the auger. Does your advantage run like that or is the flame fairly consistent as it runs.

Bob

 

[wwert]

That's pretty normal. The feed is inconsistent because of the pellet size I think. Smaller pellets work better. Crank the potentiometer for the exhaust blower all the way up and see if that helps. I love how infinitely adjustable everything is on that board.

 

[Whitfield1]

My Advantage 1 has the same result of dirty glass from burning with a small amount of pellets at lower flame level. It results from one or more things, including leaving the damper plate fully open with maximum combustion air blasting the lower flame which results in cooler of the pot and lowering of the flame temp. which results is less efficient combustion which results in tiny particles not burning as they separate from the pellets from being blasted into the air. Naturally a lower flame means a lower temp. and unburned gas and particles is the inescapable result.
Perhaps modern models has a exhaust fan rheostat connected to the pellet feed dial and that lowers the blower speed, but I doubt that older models do, hence the need for manual adjustment of the damper plate which cuts off air via blockage. I can't imagine that blocking the flow of the exhaust fan air is advantageous to the bearings but on the other hand, a lower temp. in the burn pot means less heat reaching them so one may balance out the other.

 

[Bob P.]

I agree on being able to adjust the board. On the prodigy there are two adjustment screws. not sure how the advantage is. I have one for the duration the auger runs only. The number of cycles per minute is controlled by a timer that is based on the heat setting. It has a small LED that shows the on time as well, not that I can't hear the auger cycle. This is nice because I can dial in the feed rather easily.

The other adjustment is for the blower.... It appears that without a damper, I'm not able to give it any fine tuning with the blower adjustment screw. If I get the flame burning nice on two by adjusting the blower speed, when I put it to 4, the blower pushes too much air into the pot and needs adjusted again. So I adjusted the blower to give me a good flame at the higher settings and just don't set it on one or two or the flame gets too lazy or cycles from flame to coals.
The exhaust fan is right now on my unit slaved to the main combustion blower. I can however, run the exhaust booster fan at line voltage so it runs at full speed by changing the wiring. This is an acceptable method according to the manual to give the stove more draft. The manual shows you how to do that.

The only motor that will then change speeds when I adjust the heat setting is the main blower which supplies both combustion and room air.

If I run my exhaust fan at full line voltage though, the fan will vibrate and hum. Some bearing play allowing the shaft to move enough at higher speeds to make a lot of noise. If you look at the picture in my earlier post, you can see the fan. Your exhaust fan on the advantage doesn't look like that does it?? and you're not even seeing the rest of the 4 inch shaft that extends into the exhaust housing attaching to the exhaust impeller. That is what I would like to change to a different set up and attach it to the exhaust port. Unless...I can be convinced that a new replacement fan on the prodigy will run smooth and quiet even if I change the wiring to let it run at full speed continuously. Draft is another consideration..... magnehelic needed.

I'd like to get this stove running pretty optimally by making some changes on it based on some good feedback from other similar stove owners. I was looking at some of the older posts by snowy and how he rewired his stove with all mechanical devices and eliminated the circuit board but I don't think that is necessary on this one unless it fails.

Here is a pretty noteworthy test If you will that I did today on the prodigy and this can go hand in hand with the dirty glass and may help with other similar problems. My prodigy has an air wash system on the glass meaning it pulls air into the unit through the top of each pane of glass and down to help keep the glass clear. Yesterday running the stove I could smell smoke periodically throughout the day and couldn't pinpoint it. All gaskets are good most being replaced, all welds, metal surfaces gone over with a fine tooth comb to make sure there are no cracks or holes. and the exhaust is hooked up tight and direct vented. To me on this stove it leaves a couple places for smoke/exhaust to escape. These are the areas. I have an exhaust plug on top of the exhaust manifold to access the impeller inside the manifold ( this is as sealed as it can be), a small hole where the exhaust booster fan shaft enters the exhaust housing, possibly exhaust pushing through the auger if not enough draft (not likely but is a possibility) or out of the air wash.

Today I sealed the air wash system with rock wool to eliminate one of the areas for smoke to escape. No smoke smell today. The glass is dirty as expected but probably not more than before. This leads me to believe that the stove is not creating enough negative pressure to allow the air wash to work or to pull the exhaust out correctly. Thoughts??

I will get some photos together and put them up here. I think most of the whitfield stoves are from a similar design with different changes throughout the years. I'm curious to hear some similarities and difference but ultimately what works best. Then I'm going to try to apply it to my stove with some minor engineering and maybe help some others apply it to theirs.

Thanks and happy new year,
Bob

 

[Whitfield1]

About smelling smoke, this season I noticed a disgusting stench of smoke every time I started the stove and figured it was escaping somewhere unknown. I'd have to open a window with a fan blowing outside to clear the smell out. Eventually I tried holding off on turning on the convection blower until the stove had heated up considerably which allows the smoke particles to burn fully. that seems to work as the problem has not returned since.
I can't comment on your model since mine is non-electronically controlled. Two blowers (one shot) with the room blower speed controlled by a potentiometer but the combustion/exhaust blower not (a damper plate instead pushed to sealed off the air flowing into the pot).
I repeat about the low-flame resulting in poor low-temp combustion resulting in smoke that clouds the glass. There seems no way to avoid it when the flame is too low and the blower is set too high. That causes the stove temp to drop resulting on poorer combustion.