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Whitfield Tradition T300P - Question

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Brune, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. Brune

    Brune Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Sherbrooke, Canada
    Hello, I have two pellet stove installations at my home. One is working great and the other one that was installed before I bought the house had never worked well. The installation is on the first floor. The pellet stove is a Whitfiled Tradition 2004. The vent diameter is a 3 inches. The pipe is in a vertical direction. The equivalent lenght, including all elbows and everything is 25-27 ft. The area where I am located is about 700 m above sea level. The cap termination is under the roof line. The flame is lazy and the burning pot gets plugged with partially burn pellets after an hour or so. The glass gets coverred with soot. I have cleaned everything in the stove, cleaned the vents and pipes, but nothing seems to work. If I open a window and install another blower close to the combustion blower, it seems to get better a bit, but no significant change. The installation was made by professionals. I wonder if the stove is the problem...or if its a design problem with the venting system. I have made some calculations, and the pressure loss would be reduced significantly by increasing diameter to a 4 inches. I wonder if increasing the pipe diameter will fix the problem. What do you think ? Is it a stove problem or do you believe I increase vent diameter to 4 in ?? Also, anyone has an idea of what should be the targetted pressure in the piping during normal operation (pitot tubing measurement).

    The other installation I have is located in the basement and pellet stove is a Harman P61....it has been working great for 3 years.

    Thanks for you help, this is very appreciated.

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  2. mnkywrnch

    mnkywrnch Minister of Fire

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    Baldwinville ma
    First off I would say the 3inch pipe needs to be upgraded to 4inch.Second when was the last complete cleaning of the stove including pulling both blowers and cleaning them.
  3. imacman

    imacman Guest

    First of all, has the stove been cleaned? And by that I mean a teardown......take things out/apart, scrape, wirebrush, vacuum, etc, etc....not just vacuum the firebox and scrape the burnpot. Has the exhaust pipe been cleaned all the way to the top? The fact that the stove "never worked well" is a sign of a dirty stove, poor exhaust set-up, or both.

    Second, I don't know how you determined the EVL of the pipe, but even if you just measured all the pieces and came up with 25-27 ft, that is an IMMEDIATE call for 4" pipe.

    If you haven't used the proper "EVL" figures, they are:

    1' horizontal pipe = EVL of 1
    1" vertical " =EVL of .5
    45 degree elbow =EVL of 2.5
    90 degree elbow = EVL of 5

    The calculations start at the first piece of pipe that attaches to the exhaust outlet on the back of the stove.
  4. Brune

    Brune Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Sherbrooke, Canada
    Thanks for your answer mnkywrnch. I am cleaning piping and stove completely every year. Even after a good cleaning, I cannot get enough draft (not able to see sparks in the stove). I have to run the air damper at 100% all the time. Since the stove does not work well, I do not use it anymore....tired of fighting this stove and cleaning everything every day. I would love to fix it and make it run well.

    To answer your question, yes I have made my calculations for equivalent lenght based on the numbers you mentionned above.

    Regards,
  5. Brune

    Brune Member

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    Loc:
    Sherbrooke, Canada
    Do you think a wind draft inducer (turbine) can be helpful ?
  6. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Can't say, but I have NEVER seen one used on a pellet stove. That wouldn't help your condition anyways, IMO....it would just create more back pressure, which you have too much of already.

    I think the switch to 4" pipe , given your VERY HIGH EVL number, is the only thing that will improve the draft. Any EVL above 15 signals a call for 4" pipe.

    And cleaning the stove just once a season (if you burn more than 1 ton of pellets), isn't enough. Stove should be given a major cleaning after each ton.
  7. imacman

    imacman Guest

    BTW, you say it gets better somewhat when you open a window....do you have an OAK connected to the stove? All the troubleshooting in your owners manual points to a lack of combustion air. Only 2 things will cause that.....lack of an OAK, and/or stove is dirty inside.
  8. Brune

    Brune Member

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    Loc:
    Sherbrooke, Canada
    What is about the Whitfiled Tradition 300 stove....is it a good design ? Is this stove good or is it a bad one ?? What are your thoughts ??
  9. pastera

    pastera Feeling the Heat

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    SE Mass
    I have a Lennox Tradition II (T300P-2) which I belive is the same stove. Other than replacing an ignitor, the stove runs fine and looks great.

    At ~2300ft of elevation you definately need 4" pipe

    Check page 12 of the manual
    http://www.stovesandspas.com/pdf/T300P.pdf

    You will also want to pull the combustion blower and housing out to do a complete cleaning - it's only a few nuts, one hose and one electrical connector. With that much 3" pipe, there is certainly some ash buildup in there.

    Aaron
  10. Brune

    Brune Member

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    18
    Loc:
    Sherbrooke, Canada
    Sorry, I did a mistake regarding the elevation...this is 700 ft...not meters.
    Thanks for your help. I will make calculations in order to estimate what would be the cost to change the chimney to a 4 in...I will certinaly cost something like 1000$.
  11. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    1,899
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    not bad,
    same basic stove as the profile and optima series-
    decent plate steel guts and cheap chinese casting outer
    used mid grade parts, they dont make em like they used to...
    photo eye can be a nuisance
  12. jeffolds

    jeffolds Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
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    Loc:
    long island, new york
    Is there a way to test the electric eye on the t300? i've seen a text of the testing procedure on the internet that refers to photos, but the photos are never attached. i love this stove, but the Intermittent shut down of the stove is driving me crazy. plus, after running constantly on lo heat and med blower after less than 3 hours the ultra-grate is full of pellets that are black and partially burned. and then i get a VERY lazy flame. the damper is fully open, and I calibrated the feed to MIN, the air to MAX. i've also cleaned the amber lens for the electric eye. pellet stoves are pretty new around here, so it's not like i can ask a neighbor for help.
  13. nashbearwa

    nashbearwa New Member

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    Loc:
    Tacoma, WA
    Hi, I've had this stove for many years, I've bought it new. The stove pipe vents straight up about 15' if I remember correctly. This stove has behaved as you discribe since new. The company sent out their best tech person when it was only a few weeks old for the same problem you have. They could not fix my stove, they refunded my money and let me keep the stove.

    The only things that let me use this device to heat my house is yearly cleaning of the stove pipe, weekly cleaning of the ash, daily or every other day cleaning of the glass. I also have replaced the seal on the glass and door as they tend to wear out faster than I would think.

    Cleaning the stove pipe and replacing the seals do tend to help the fire burn better and the glass will get less covered with soot but only for a short time. The longer it runs the worse it gets. Other parts I've had to replace have been the starter and the baffle.

    I too have to keep the air flow out at 100% and really have learned to hate this stove over the years. I can't wait to get a new one, since nobody knows why my stove behaves this way either.

    Goodluck

    One other person has the same luck as me replacing the seals for the glass and the door, many other reviews can be found at http://www.pellet-stove-review.com/free-standing-pellet-stove/lennox-traditions-t300p-2-pellet-stove
  14. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    "The only things that let me use this device to heat my house is yearly cleaning of the stove pipe, weekly cleaning of the ash."

    Yes and that is a problem why?
  15. nashbearwa

    nashbearwa New Member

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    Well the glass should not be BLACK with soot, ash and the like after a few hours of use, like the stoves that are having this problem. I wasn't saying that annual cleaning of the stove pipe or weekly cleaning of ash is a problem. It was just a tip to those who may not know to do that.
  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    I haven't looked at that particular stove, however any non gas stove without an air wash system will grunge up window glass.

    It is usually a question of setup on stoves with an air wash system and even then they don't stay clean for long especially if you burn a low fire, or don't have the proper air/fuel mixture, or are burning stuff that shouldn't be used in the stove.

    I do believe most of the manuals speak to the matter when it comes to cleaning etc....
  17. nashbearwa

    nashbearwa New Member

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    Oh they do have an air wash system, but there is something wrong with this model stove. It's does have a air/fuel mix problem, it was built with it. There is little that can be done to fix it. The things I've listed help the stove work, but it's still not right. I'm not asking for help, I know what I have and am just helping other to "live" with what they have. If you want to come see if, feel free to come. If the factory can't fix it and they refunded the money for the stove...they know somethings wrong with them. I truthfully hate my pellet stove and would never buy another one from Lennox. I will buy another stove, just not sure when.
  18. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Well I know one thing wrong with the OP's setup, improper venting, out of specification for 3" pipe. Close to being out of specification for 4" pipe if the EVL was calculated correctly. That alone will make a mess of the burn, the glass, and cause burn pot buildup.

    nashbearwa,

    Did the factory rep install a fully adjustable combustion blower with a higher air flow rate to discover at what point the burn became proper?
  19. nashbearwa

    nashbearwa New Member

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    EVL? Elevation? I'm at near sea level 15' is well with in specs. If I remember correctly (this was in fall 2006 when the stove was new) he did not put in a different combustion blower, but it does have an adjustment, it's currently set on the lowest pellet feed, highest air. but it's still junk. :D
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    The EVL comment was directed to the OP's install.

    Sounds like your factory rep wasn't well trained then.

    Yes your stove does have a combustion air trim and a damper, it may also have a combustion blower that is also not up to snuff or even some air leaks such as around the ash pan, or the ash slides do not properly sit in their slots or for that matter a dozen other places.
  21. jeffolds

    jeffolds Member

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    Loc:
    long island, new york
    after years of frustration with my T300P Traditions, i FINALLY figured out the problem. Mine would run for a few hours, glass would soot up, grate would be full of unburnt pellets and very lazy flame. Living on Long Island, NY pellet stoves are few and far between. Techs are hard to find, and i have to order my parts online from out of state to get them quickly and for a reasonable price.
    I removed the combustion motor and found the entire inside passage going to the damper FILLED with ashes. Years of buildup. I cleaned out with shop-vac, problem solved. so far ran for 12 hours straight, glass clean, burn pot looks great. I still have computer board set at min. flame, max air. Flue is open all the way. so far, so good. wish i would have tried that MUCH sooner. stove runs like new again

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