Why is everyone against (garn)

[bigburner]

codes are for the manufactures, dipping a coil in a tank of hot water doesn't change anything. altering an approved design does and only if it is stamped. [ not every tank you buy is stamped look at the air compressor you bought from HD] every one who has modified a propane tank for storage has violated the stamp that the tank was produced under. technically it would need to be re-certified for the application. History lesson -- these codes came about when steam boilers exploded on a regular bases killing lots of people, a standard was required so that pressure vessels design was consistent. back then every thing was riveted and used stay bolts, then weld designs came along and being new technology it had it's problems for awhile also. not sure on current code but it used to be anything less then 6 inch diameter was not considered a pressure vessel and did not require a stamp & pipe over 6 inch installed in an approved matter didn't either.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

codes are for the manufactures, dipping a coil in a tank of hot water doesn't change anything. altering an approved design does and only if it is stamped. [ not every tank you buy is stamped look at the air compressor you bought from HD] every one who has modified a propane tank for storage has violated the stamp that the tank was produced under. technically it would need to be re-certified for the application. History lesson -- these codes came about when steam boilers exploded on a regular bases killing lots of people, a standard was required so that pressure vessels design was consistent. back then every thing was riveted and used stay bolts, then weld designs came along and being new technology it had it's problems for awhile also. not sure on current code but it used to be anything less then 6 inch diameter was not considered a pressure vessel and did not require a stamp & pipe over 6 inch installed in an approved matter didn't either.

Each state,each city & each township can have their own ordinances. I know putting a coil in a pressure vessel that has different pressure than the tank can violate code & since many Hearth members are modifying(manufacturing) their tank/boiler they still need to be built to the areas code. That is why I remarked that just a pressure coil in a non pressure vessel may not allow the manufacturer to sell as a open boiler anymore or put the owner in violation. Codes are for everyone, both manufacturers and owners, otherwise no one would need to worry about the Euro boilers that don't meet code in some areas, Randy

 

[bigburner]

Sounds like we are talking about two different things. All i am saying is that when a shop builds a pressure vessel that will require a stamp, that the design is along a strict set of standards and any modification. negates that standard. Not all pressure vessels require a stamp. an unpressurized boiler isn't a pressure vessel.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Sounds like we are talking about two different things. All i am saying is that when a shop builds a pressure vessel that will require a stamp, that the design is along a strict set of standards and any modification. negates that standard. Not all pressure vessels require a stamp. an unpressurized boiler isn't a pressure vessel.

Nothing I would dissagree with here Bigburner, Randy

 

[Gooserider]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garn include some form of HX, even if it is just a bunch of pipes, as an option for folks that want it. But as others have pointed out, there may be code restrictions in some areas that wouldn't allow them. It is also definitely the case that not all installs would need any sort of HX, or have needs that indicate an external HX... I certainly can understand Garn's logic in choosing just to give the customer a big tank, and letting them add whatever sort of interface connection they need...

Another possible issue may be concern about mixed metal related corrosion - I know that Garn is supposed to have some pretty stiff requirements on how much distance they want to see in black iron pipe before any other metal fittings. Given that one wouldn't want to have potential corrosion issues in either the tank, or a difficult to inspect submerged HX, I can see why they'd want to keep the HX out of the tank where it can be seen easily.

Gooserider

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garn include some form of HX, even if it is just a bunch of pipes, as an option for folks that want it. But as others have pointed out, there may be code restrictions in some areas that wouldn't allow them. It is also definitely the case that not all installs would need any sort of HX, or have needs that indicate an external HX... I certainly can understand Garn's logic in choosing just to give the customer a big tank, and letting them add whatever sort of interface connection they need...

Another possible issue may be concern about mixed metal related corrosion - I know that Garn is supposed to have some pretty stiff requirements on how much distance they want to see in black iron pipe before any other metal fittings. Given that one wouldn't want to have potential corrosion issues in either the tank, or a difficult to inspect submerged HX, I can see why they'd want to keep the HX out of the tank where it can be seen easily.

Gooserider

Goose, Are some people just pumping the Garn boiler water through their system without an exchanger? I know even the non pressure storage uses exchangers normally. Some of this I don't understand, like some that don't keep the city feedwater pressure hooked up, do they just rely on the circulating pump? Randy

 

[Gooserider]

I wouldn't mind seeing Garn include some form of HX, even if it is just a bunch of pipes, as an option for folks that want it. But as others have pointed out, there may be code restrictions in some areas that wouldn't allow them. It is also definitely the case that not all installs would need any sort of HX, or have needs that indicate an external HX... I certainly can understand Garn's logic in choosing just to give the customer a big tank, and letting them add whatever sort of interface connection they need...

Another possible issue may be concern about mixed metal related corrosion - I know that Garn is supposed to have some pretty stiff requirements on how much distance they want to see in black iron pipe before any other metal fittings. Given that one wouldn't want to have potential corrosion issues in either the tank, or a difficult to inspect submerged HX, I can see why they'd want to keep the HX out of the tank where it can be seen easily.

Gooserider

Goose, Are some people just pumping the Garn boiler water through their system without an exchanger? I know even the non pressure storage uses exchangers normally. Some of this I don't understand, like some that don't keep the city feedwater pressure hooked up, do they just rely on the circulating pump? Randy

My understanding is that some folks do... There is no specific reason that one can't go unpressurized if your system is designed appropriately, the elevations are right, and so forth... The biggest single reason to need an HX is if one is interfacing the Garn with a system that has a pressurized conventional boiler in it already, or if the altitudes of the boiler vs. the rest of the system make it necessary / easier...

Gooserider