Why is my draft so bad?

[CarbonNeutral]

Ah yes. See below. Install was last October, started with great wood, good draft. Last few weeks the draft has been terrible, and the wood has been suspect (but not hissing wet). I didn't have all I needed to get up on the roof - I have to clean top down but my ladder isn't tall enough. Today I finally rigged a stainless steel line across the ridge as a safety line...

The pipe isn't actually too bad - maybe an 1/8th to a 1/4 " of creosote at the top, and dry, not sticky.

Even still, I feel a little embarrassed I didn't get up there sooner....

PS. This is the cap off the roof, and upside down..

 

[grommal]

Wow. That would certainly slow the draft down a bit.

On the plus side, you might avoid getting wasps in your chimney over the summer!

 

[begreen]

Well the good news is the stove is going to be positively peppy after that gets cleaned out.

 

[Chettt]

If your temperature outside is much above freezing, your draft will just die.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

If your temperature outside is much above freezing, your draft will just die.

You should have seen the smoke in the house...

 

[summit]

those simpson class "A" and SS liner caps w/ the mesh are so dumb... take the mesh screen out and you won't run into this issue again. Your main problem here is that you are burning some not so great wood... now how the soot looks isn't too bad: its all burned up fluffy ashy stuff with probably a slight crust underneath. Take the mesh out, the flow will be better: And you won't accumulate all the condensed vapors that accumulate on start up in the wire. Alot of that crap will burn off or fly out.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

I like that idea - I also saw someone post elsewhere that they just used a hose to clean it up - the heat of the stove burned off the excess water...

 

[fossil]

If things like fire codes are of any interest to you, there are localities in which a spark arrestor screen is required. A proper spark arrestor screen, per the standard found in NFPA 211, is one which will prevent anything bigger than ½" passing through it. Where the local AHJ requires it, you're supposed to have it installed on every solid fuel-burning appliance chimney. Where I live, they are required, because of the ever-present danger of wildfire in the high desert of central Oregon. I got 'em atop both chimneys, I pay attention to them, they're never a problem. I burn dry wood, and I clean the screens once per year. Even if they weren't required, I think the only thing I might do is change them out for a larger mesh...I'd still want to discourage birds or other critters from exploring my flues. Rick

 

[begreen]

+1

My Simpson screen is about to end up its 4th season uncleaned after passing about 10 cords of exhaust. I expect I will get up there this summer and will take a picture. May brush it if warranted. Dry wood is good.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Not just codes.. I live in the middle of a hardwood forest.. I surely do not want that to burn down around me.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Hear you on the dry wood and the spark arrestor, even though fires are not so much of a problem here, hoping to have at least 1.5 cords from this year left over, have already stacked another 1.5, lots more to split and stack. Hopefully by 2011/2012 onwards I'll be using wood at least a year seasoned, rather than summer and a fall. When you're burning four cords a year it's difficult to get ahead in your first seasons...

 

[madison]

curious to know if the OP is a intermittent burner vs 24/7, and if he/she uses alot of paper or cardboard to start their fires?

 

[Battenkiller]

If your temperature outside is much above freezing, your draft will just die.

You should have seen the smoke in the house...

Even worse would be the carbon monoxide that can get pushed into the room from a big bed of coals. Happening at the tail end of the burn, there will be little or no smoke to warn you of it's presence. Hope you have a least one tested CO detector in the house.

Thanks for sharing that photo. Now it makes sense to me how these screens can get clogged up so easy. Any smoke will cool quite rapidly once it clears the top of the insulated pipe, but it still has to pass through that cold screen. Curious to know what kind of flue temps you usually run?

No great shame, 1/4" of flaky stuff way up high after a long season isn't so horrendous... unless it happens to be in the wrong place as in this case.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

We had the same problem our previous house's cap.
I totally attibute it to heavy, sloppy snowfall.
The heavy snow would somewhat stick to the cap and in turn
build-up deposits from the exhaust. After it melted away, you were
left with the starts of a partially clogged cap, and it would continue from there.

We don't have that problem anymore, because our cap doesn't have a screen.

If I had to choose between the slim possibility of throwing-out sparks, and the
much greater reality of clogging my draft & creating a chimney fire hazard,
I would choose to "86" the cap screen.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Yes to CO detectors, 24/7 burner, and yes to the cardboard recently because the days have been getting warmer so the fire goes out more often now.

Don't know my flue temps, but my stove wants to cruise at 400 or so. Can get it much higher on full loads of well split/dry wood, but that also drives us out of the room except on the coldest days.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm not entirely sure cardboard or paper is to blame . . . wet wood . . . sure . . . but I've been using paper and cardboard to start my fires for the past few years and have had no build up in my chimney cap . . . at least not like the picture posted. It should be noted that I use dry wood, run the stove at proper (i.e. hot) temps and clean it every month regardless of whether it needs it or not since running the brush up from the bottom is a 5-10 minute job for me.

 

[gzecc]

Carbonnutral- Your lucky you didn't wake up dead!

 

[madison]

firefighterjake, i believe you are a (good) exception to the rule with your frequent cleaning practices, I do worry about those who do not maintain their stacks and the byproducts of restarting fires associated with intermittant burning...

I've seen paper/cardboard ash emitted from open fireplace chimneys as well as the the byproducts of creosote ignition with cardboard that looks as though it could stick to a meshed cap.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Carbonnutral- Your lucky you didn't wake up dead!

any evidence of a wood fire (fireplace or stove) ever killing anyone fron CO2????

dirty screens are about 75% of the "my stove is smoking" calls i get. But if you remove the screen CDF (california dept. of forestry) will fine you. However, the city and county inspectors dont require them here

 

[DanCorcoran]

"any evidence of a wood fire (fireplace or stove) ever killing anyone fron CO2????"

Do you mean carbon monoxide (not carbon dioxide - CO2)?

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

"any evidence of a wood fire (fireplace or stove) ever killing anyone fron CO2????"

Do you mean carbon monoxide (not carbon dioxide - CO2)?

ok, time for another cup of coffee, lmao

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Carbonnutral- Your lucky you didn't wake up dead!

I don't think that was ever a possibility - I have CO monitors, the chimney was actually in good condition - just swept it, not much past the first few feet. The chimney is fully lined.

 

[Battenkiller]

any evidence of a wood fire (fireplace or stove) ever killing anyone fron CO2????

Never personally heard of a CO related death from wood burning, but I have had my detector hit 25 PPM after I accidentally left the top loading door open for less than 5 minutes while I was working on the ashes through the front doors. Opening the front doors while the top was open completely killed the draft and the stove started to vent through the open top. I never noticed anything wrong because I was crouching down by the floor in front of the stove. There wasn't a hint of smoke or smell coming out the top opening, at least not until I tossed a couple splits on the coals and smoke started to come out. There was plenty of CO coming off those coals, however. Had I walked away from it for some odd reason, I'm sure we would have at least gotten sick. If I went to bed under those conditions, I might have been nominated for this year's "Darwin Awards".

Why be the first on your block to die of CO poisoning? I always recommend everyone who burns anything inside their home have at least one CO detector.

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

If things like fire codes are of any interest to you, there are localities in which a spark arrestor screen is required. A proper spark arrestor screen, per the standard found in NFPA 211, is one which will prevent anything bigger than ½" passing through it. Where the local AHJ requires it, you're supposed to have it installed on every solid fuel-burning appliance chimney. Where I live, they are required, because of the ever-present danger of wildfire in the high desert of central Oregon. I got 'em atop both chimneys, I pay attention to them, they're never a problem. I burn dry wood, and I clean the screens once per year. Even if they weren't required, I think the only thing I might do is change them out for a larger mesh...I'd still want to discourage birds or other critters from exploring my flues. Rick

Aside from the above...if you or a very close neighbor should have a swimming pool, especially an in-ground pool, with one of those $2000.00 trampoline type covers.... required by fire code or not a spark arrestor is a good idea. Using cardboard/paper for starting... doubly so.

Even worse would be the carbon monoxide that can get pushed into the room from a big bed of coals. Happening at the tail end of the burn, there will be little or no smoke to warn you of it’s presence. Hope you have a least one tested CO detector in the house.

Actually the coals in the end of the burn, burn really clean compared to the first 2/3rds of the fire so there is really less CO then the smokey part. Just look at a bed of coals with good airflow you'll see blue flames=really clean burn. Not saying there is no CO or reason to worry about exhaust coming into the house, but it is the cleanest part of the burn.

 

[Battenkiller]

Actually the coals in the end of the burn, burn really clean compared to the first 2/3rds of the fire so there is really less CO then the smokey part. Just look at a bed of coals with good airflow you'll see blue flames=really clean burn. Not saying there is no CO or reason to worry about exhaust coming into the house, but it is the cleanest part of the burn.

Ya, well there's the rub. You mentioned "good airflow". Airflow gets reduced at the very tail end of a burn as draft diminishes because of lower flue temps (or in the OP's case, a completely blocked flue), so the coals gradually burn less intensely. That blue flame you see is actually carbon monoxide being burned to form carbon dioxide. When the airflow decreases and blue flames become weak or even absent, CO is still being formed, but not all of it being converted to CO2. As well, reduced airflow at this stage causes a concomitant reduction in flame velocity and turbulence, two things that help to mix the intake air thoroughly with the fuel gases in a non-premix environment like a wood stove. It was under these conditions that I experienced a CO spike on my detector in a very short time of venting into the room.

Best thing about the coaling stage is that virtually no water is formed as a product of combustion, since only carbon molecules remain and you need hydrogen molecules to make water. So it's a good time for your flue to dry out. Also a good time to form CO gas. Not all of that carbon in the coals gets hitched up with two oxygen molecules. Combustion is never truly complete no matter what the fuel source. That CO gas ordinarily goes up the flue as lost fuel, unrecoverable because the secondaries are now out. That's just another reason to not be so proud about waking up to a 6" deep bed of coals.