Will a new wood stove decrease our smoking problem?

[JKoz]

We currently have an old Fisher wood stove in our basement. We are looking at new stoves (Lopi Leyden, Vermont Casting Encore, Hearthstone Heritage, QuadraFire Isle Royale, maybe others). Our hope is that a new stove will provide a longer burn and will be less likely to smoke.

We have always had issues with the Fisher smoking and we are concerned that part of the problem is our existing chimney design.

Currently, a 6" single wall pipe connects the stove to a masonry chimney. The chimney is very tall and extends from the basement all the way above our steep roof that is above the second floor. The chimney is on the exterior. The chimney has two flues, one for a Buck insert on our First Floor and the second for the Fisher in the Basement. Unfortunately, the chimney for the basement offsets to avoid the firebox on the First Floor. I believe that there is only one offset but I cannot guarantee this. Originally, we had a 6x6 terra-cotta chimney but a single wall liner (5" or 5.5") was installed after lightening struck our chimney and cracked the terra-cotta. The installer was NOT able to thread the liner all the way through the offset to the basement, he was only able to get it part way past the offset. I am concerned that this may be an insurmountable problem.

When starting the Fisher, it is imperative that I spend lots of time either burning paper at the rear of the Fisher or let a blow torch run for several minutes. If I do not do this, I risk smoking out the entire house! This happens whether or not I have a basement window open. Once I have draft, I load lots of paper, kindling and several smaller logs into the stove and light the fire. The combustion intake is usually opened 100%. If I let the door be cracked open, the smoke can "overwhelm" the chimney's capability to vent everything and I have had occassions when smoke was visibly escaping from the exposed single-wall pipe. During this time, I need to closely monitor the start-up and have had, at times, to close the combustion intakes a bit to avoid this same problem

When the fire is actively burning, I will get a puff of smoke into the house almost EVERY time I open the door. It seems the only time I do not get a puff is when the fire has burned down to coals. Since the Fisher burns thru wood fast, my typical cycle (once the stove is hot) is to load wood and wait 3-4 hours till it is reduced to coals. Then, I load more wood and repeat the process. Again, if I open the door prior to the wood being burned out I typically get a puff of smoke.

We are being told:
- that the Fisher stove was known to smoke a lot and that a new stove will be better
- that our chimney is far from ideal and that they will not be able to guarantee that the new stove would never smoke
- that it is typical that installation of a liner through a terra-cotta chimney offset is difficult and could be impossible
- that a top loader (like the Lopi) will be the least likely to smoke

If a new stove is likely to be an improvement, we will be happy with the upgrade. However, it would be very frustrating if we spend 2.5K on a new stove only to have a more attractive piece of useless furniture!

thanks!

 

[begreen]

I've never heard of a wood stove curing a smoking problem. If you're hooked, it's up to you.

Seriously though, this sounds like negative pressure in the basement and not the stove. I doubt that this is the Fisher's fault, but I am wondering which Fisher this is and what is the flue collar size? If it is an 8" stove, that could explain part of the problem. Anyhow, it sounds like you have a flue problem and not a stove problem. I very strongly doubt that a downdraft stove like the Leyden or the Encore are going to be happy with this setup. The Quad or the Heritage might fare better, but perhaps not much.

The fact that the liner is not all the way down the chimney is a very bad sign. Lots of things can go wrong here, but at the very least there is not a continuous sealed smoke path. This is like trying to suck on a straw with a hole in it. Either the liner needs to be done correctly, all the way from top to the stove or a new flue should be installed. In the meantime, who knows what kind of creosote accumulation there is between the old flue and the liner. This is not a good setup.

 

[BrotherBart]

I would attack the liner situation first. With experience and a proper "pulling cone" on that liner it should have been able to be worked through the offset. Not easy, not fast and for sure not fun but it should have been done. That is why they flex.

Getting that liner right is the first and cheapest step. Hanging a new stove on the bottom first ain't gonna solve the problem. It is a shame that the insurance company is now off the hook and the job wasn't done right. With the liner not connected to the stove connector pipe at the thimble the safety issue never was solved.

 

[soupy1957]

+1 on quitting smoking. I've smoked MORE, since having our wood stove! (lol)

-Soupy1957

 

[summit]

new stove will not solve a draft issue: the biggest issue you face is the fact that the chimney is outside... and therefore cold. An insulated liner, or insulated chase would greatly improve your situation.

 

[richg]

I had a Fisher Grandma Bear ten years ago, and it was indeed a smoke dragon. My vent setup was decent. Your vent setup sounds suboptimal at best, indeed, venting two appliances into one chimney is highly discouraged by many stove manufacturers. My suggestion would be to fix the vent setup first, and then get an EPA-rated stove.

 

[burleymike]

Do you keep the window cracked while the stove is burning, I saw that you keep it open while starting the fire and it does not seem to help? You have two clay liners in the same chimney right? That is fine you just don't want two appliances venting into the same liner from a code stand point.

I believe a big part of the problem is your liner not going all the way to the basement. I am betting your stove is designed for an 8" chimney? This would be the biggest part of the problem. You really need to get the liner all the way down and insulate it. You probably don't have room for blanket insulation but you can pour vermiculite down around the liner once it is properly installed.

After your chimney is in code compliant shape the you can start thinking about a new stove.

 

[JKoz]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Here are answers to some of the questions you asked:

Fisher Stove Model #? I looked all over the stove and couldn't find a model number. A patent # but not a model number. It is approx 18" wide x 24" deep x 24" tall (the highest part in rear).

Fisher Stove Connection Size? 6"

Do two appliances vent into the same chimney? Yes, but the chimney has two individual terral cotta flues (one 8x12 for the First Floor Buck 91 and a second 6x6 for the basement)

Do I keep window cracked while the stove is burning? Only on startup. When the stove is hot I typically have closed the window. I definitely have tested to see if opening the window helped with the "puff" of smoke. It didn't seem to help.

It seems that I will be contacting the contractor who installed the "incomplete" liner approx 10 years ago. My recollection is that he told me that it met the code at that time. If it didn't meet that code, maybe I can encourage him to help me out without more payment.

Realizing that I need to do something about the flue problem, am I correct that a new and more efficient stove would have to be better? Maybe if I get a small stove that doesn't develop so much heat and needs a huge draft?

thanks for any additional comments.

 

[burleymike]

A new stove will be better as long as your chimney is fully lined and insulated. You will have to be sure it is tall enough for the model stove you pick out ,you can find that info in the manual usually online for each make and model. If you have been using that setup for 10 years you should have a competent sweep look at the condition of the stainless liner. It is possible you have creosote on the inside of it and the outside unless the contractor was able to get a block off plate in there to keep smoke from going in and around the liner. That could be the recipe for a chimney fire.

 

[begreen]

That sounds like it might be a Fisher Baby Bear. A new stove will not be any happier with the current flue problems. Some could be worse. That has to be fixed first.

 

[Deron]

I had the exact same problem in our basement. We have a double flue as well and a 5 foot offset.

Had a few people come out and tell me a liner was not an option, then I found a company who told me no problem.
They came out ran a 20' + stainless steel liner and used a ball with a rope attached to pull it thru the offset area.

Worked like a charm. We went from having a pressure and smoke problem to having an awesome draft up the
liner with not even an hint of smoke.