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Will Alaska be the next Washington?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by KaptJaq, Feb 21, 2013.

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  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Also wrong. If the wood furnace passes requirements it is permissible.
    • 2.5 grams/hour for catalytic furnaces
    • 4.5 grams/hour for non-catalytic furnaces
    http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/....html#To_sell_indoor_wood_and_pellet_furnaces:​

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  2. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    You are thinking correctly.

    I live on a dead end street.

    Out of 8 houses I think 3 or 4 of us burn wood.

    A few years back the house next to me was built..like a 500k house...I think 6 kids all under 7.
    Anyways I don't want to smoke them out and so far I don't think I have and so far no complaints..I have yet to have the chance to meet them.

    We all have at least 5 acres but his house is maybe only 800 ft downwind from me.
    I'm glad I have the epa approved stove now and not my old BBK smoke dragon..huge diff!
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Open fireplace burning is the first things to go down during a burn ban here.
  4. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    That's great, but you have to admit, winters are a little different in the Seattle area than they are in the Northeast. I would be willing to be the mindset is a little different as well.
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Without a doubt, in many small and some large ways. Note that the burn bans are on a local county basis, not statewide.
  6. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    This is from your state's web site on OWBs:
    Are any outdoor wood-fired hydronic heaters legal in Washington?

    Not at this time.

    So no OWBs are legal in WA state, which to me and most people out here in the real world, means that they are banned.

    You want to legislate clean air in your region, that's great. Have at it. The problem is that you holier than thou Washington voting majority and politicians want to shove this type of legislation down everyone else's throats via the likes of the EPA, regardless of the need, desire, or wants of other states and other regions.

    As the saying went in the American Revolution: Don't tread on me.

    And as others have pointed out above, laws and regulations on stoves and boilers does little in regard to how they are used and the actual amount of smoke they produce. All of the EPA testing is done in a non-typical laboratory environment, specifically to pass limited testing standards in non-typical burning environments. Why are the set up that way? Because of lobbying of politicians by companies wanting regulatory advantage on the competition. Similar to the reasons why chainsaws were regulated by the EPA. No one was crying for anyone to regulate small engine smog. The level of smog from hand held small engines is tiny. But enter John Deere, who had a cleaner burning 2-stroke engine technology. So they lobbied for the EPA to create a national standard, based on their engines' ability. So Stihl and Husky scrambled and came up with newer engines that met those standards, and oh, then JD dropped out of the hand held engine game. In the end? Many companies were forced out of the small engine tool business. It cost other companies a lot of money to change the technology, and those costs are being passed onto the consumer who has to pay a MUCH higher price for similar size chainsaws, trimmers and blowers. And why? Because JD wanted to corner the market. Is the air really any cleaner because a small engines burns cleaner? I cannot find any actual data on that.

    I used to live in Santa Clara, CA where all wood burning appliances are banned. And I mean they are outright BANNED. You cannot build any new structure in that county with any type of wood burning appliance. Period. No OWBs, no indoor boilers, no fireplaces, no wood stoves, no nada. Zip. Do they go on the bandwagon to ban wood burning appliances nationally? No. Do they try to legislate their rules and regulations on the rest of the state or the country? No. So I do not see why the Puget Sound in Washington (and in many places in New England) have to insist on stomping on the rest of the state of Washington, New England, or the rest of the US regarding wood burning requirements, restrictions and legislation. But that seems to be the case. Its like the passing of prohibition. A small lobby group gains control of passing legislation that no one wants, and it becomes the law of the land. And hence my relating this type of restrictive legislation to the Nazi party. A small group controls the majority, and crams their ideals down everyone else's throats.
    milleo, ScotO, Scols and 1 other person like this.
  7. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Taken out of context. Note the statement is: at this time... They are not banned as was implied in the previous post. There could very well be companies that are testing their OWBs for EPA certification right now.The reason they test the way they do is because they need to test to a uniform, reproducible standard. The history in this rant is not quite right, especially about the small engines. Do you really think that JD could possibly corner the market on small engines. Heard of Honda, Yamaha, Poulan? http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/equip-ld/hhsfrm/r00004.pdf

    FWIW, we didn't vote on this at all. I don't even remember it being a voting issue. The assumption that anyone in this discussion is on a national bandwagon is wrong and paranoid. Last I checked, EPA regs were not up for vote. Oh, and I didn't vote for the EPA to be established either. That was Dick Nixon's idea. Most all of us here have benefited from EPA standard stoves. Not only did the program create a ton of jobs, it also has provided us with cleaner burning, more efficient stoves. I personally like the outcome. We use less wood and have a nice clear view of the fire. No complaint here. The alternative is like Darrington, WA, a choking bowl of smoke dragons. No OWBs needed there, you can cut the smoke it is so thick on some days. And they have the health problems to prove it. Note that the town of Darrington asked Puget Sound Clean Air for help, not vice versa.
    KaptJaq likes this.
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Read the article, this is not a statewide Alaska issue. The thread title is provocative and misleading. It's not even an EPA issue. It's the community of Fairbanks trying to come to grips with high pollution levels from wood smoke. They are considering implementing a stove exchange program like the successful ones implemented in Darrington, WA an Libby, Montana. Why, because in those communities it worked. Ironically, the ninnies worried about their stoves being taken away (not happening) are the ones that probably would see the best gains in reduced fuel costs.
    weatherguy likes this.
  11. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Agreed

    Some folks need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable.

    <closed>
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