Will it be ok if i do this?

[BurningBrutus]

So I am thinking about upgrading to a BK Princess insert, i currently have a PE Super. The super slides right in with just enough room on top without hitting the metal frame on the old gas insert. I need about 2 inches more going up with the Princess, will it be ok if i take a saw and cut about 3 inches going up, i have about 6 inches of room, there is also a metal piece inside that i will have to cut as well. Will this be ok?

Chris

 

[begreen]

Old gas insert? How is the Super vented?

 

[webby3650]

That's not an insert. It's a pre-fabricated wood burning fireplace.
You cannot modify that fireplace in any way, except removing the damper, smoke screen etc. Can't cut it or remove the bricks. I really doubt the princess will ever fit in there like it is. Do you have another location you could install a princess stove and just keep the fireplace for ambiance?

 

[BurningBrutus]

That's not an insert. It's a pre-fabricated wood burning fireplace.
You cannot modify that fireplace in any way, except removing the damper, smoke screen etc. Can't cut it or remove the bricks. I really doubt the princess will ever fit in there like it is. Do you have another location you could install a princess stove and just keep the fireplace for ambiance?

Webby, from the base of where it will sit, to the top of the metal is 21 3/4 inches, i need 23 for the princess, its only a metal frame with 6 inches to the brick, nothing but open space, why can i just get a sawzaw and cut the metal 2 inches going up and remove that little section? and i measured everything and there is a enough room.

Currently vented with a 6" SS liner.

 

[bholler]

Because doing so is modifying a ul lised appliance and voids its listing. This makes it not meet code and in many cases makes it so your insurance will not cover and damage. I dont like inserts in zc units at all but you absolutly can not modify the zc in any way.

 

[BurningBrutus]

This is very depressing, as i wanted a Blaze King.

 

[webby3650]

Also, just because it will physically fit in the hole doesn't mean it will work. You still need room to make the final connection, the princess has a flue collar that exits at 30 degrees. This makes it even harder in a situation like this.

 

[BrotherBart]

 

[BurningBrutus]

So are all my hopes and dreams crushed? will i be jeopardizing my safety if i cut it? what would you guys do?

 

[BurningBrutus]

brotherbart, what do you think?

 

[BrotherBart]

I was just chuckling at the wording of webby's last post. I have a warped mind.

But webby and bholler are correct. You can't modify the ZC.

 

[BurningBrutus]

what should i do then?, my super just wont cut it, i mean all it is, is a metal front piece of steel, with nothing behind it, I am just not understanding why i cant just cut a piece out, sorry im being stubborn. Also, is there a better stove out there that will work better than my PE Super, i have 21 3/4 inches if height, i dont care if its catalitic or not.

 

[fossil]

What does the manufacturer of your fireplace say about putting a wood-burning insert into it? What does Blaze King say about putting that insert into a gas-fired ZC? Speaking of all your hopes and dreams, you don't want to jeopardize them all. There are some real safety concerns involved here that have to be taken into consideration. Just because you can eyeball it and say that you can make it fit doesn't mean it's safe or acceptable. You might want to get a pro installer over there who's familiar with both units and scope out what you have in mind and give you a professional, unbiased opinion/recommendation. Rick

 

[BurningBrutus]

I dont know what my manufacturer says about putting a insert into my ZC. I had a professional company come over and install it, Im hoping that they would have known if it was safe to do in the first place, as this is what they do for a living. If it is unsafe, well they will have a few words with me. I dont even know the brand of the old existing ZC.

 

[Grisu]

I dont know what my manufacturer says about putting a insert into my ZC. I had a professional company come over and install it, Im hoping that they would have known if it was safe to do in the first place, as this is what they do for a living. If it is unsafe, well they will have a few words with me. I dont even know the brand of the old existing ZC.

What is the height of the lintel measured from the hearth? Your best and safest option may be to extend the hearth and put a large rear-vented stove in front. If you want a cat stove the Woodstock Progress and Ideal Steel would be the obvious choices.

 

[Grisu]

I have a warped mind.

You did not want to say a dirty mind? (Or maybe that's just me after re-reading webby's post.).

 

[webby3650]

Haha!

 

[webby3650]

The minimum size opening for the princess is 23.5". Then you still need a way to fit your arms in there to make the connection. Also, the flue on the stove and the flue on the fireplace almost never line up. In a prefab its just not possible sometimes. This is gonna be one of those times. You have one of the smallest prefabs that were used, and chose one of the largest inserts on the market.

 

[BurningBrutus]

What is the height of the lintel measured from the hearth? Your best and safest option may be to extend the hearth and put a large rear-vented stove in front. If you want a cat stove the Woodstock Progress and Ideal Steel would be the obvious choices.

The Lintel is 38" from the hearth, and as you can see in the pic in the begining of this thread there is a 2 inch brick lip in the back of the hearth, and what would i put to cover the huge whole in the fireplace with just the vent sticking out?

 

[BurningBrutus]

Another question, could i get a BK Princess Classic freestanding, its 27 1/8 high, put a 45 coming out of top, strait pipe it to another 45 and attach it to the liner, the stove will be sitting on the pad, see pic in beginning, and i would put a extension on to the requirements. Would that work?

 

[Grisu]

The Lintel is 38" from the hearth,

38" from the hearth or the floor? You say the fireplace is 21" tall and the picture does not look like its 17" from the hearth to the bottom of the fireplace. If it's more than 33" from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening you have several choices for large rear-vented stoves:
Jotul F600 and F55
Hearthstone Manchester
Quadrafire Isle Royale (and hopefully its soon to be released follow-up model)
The already mentioned Woodstock Progress Hybrid and Ideal Steel. Those two would also be cat stoves similar to the BK.

what would i put to cover the huge whole in the fireplace with just the vent sticking out?

Anything you fancy; preferably non-combustible of course. You could stuff some Roxul in the back of the fireplace and then put some black sheet metal in front, or a layer of bricks, or durock with some finish to it. I am sure you will get quite a few suggestions and examples if you ask here.

Another question, could i get a BK Princess Classic freestanding, its 27 1/8 high, put a 45 coming out of top, strait pipe it to another 45 and attach it to the liner, the stove will be sitting on the pad, see pic in beginning, and i would put a extension on to the requirements. Would that work?

Check the manual. I think BK recommends 2 ft vertical pipe before any horizontal run. And I don't see how you can avoid a horizontal run even with two 45 degree pieces when the Princess is sitting in front of the hearth.

However, after skimming through some of your older posts I would also suggest backing up for a moment and figure out whether the Super is really too small for you.

What size is your home? How well is it insulated? How often did the Super not provide enough heat (don't forget we had an exceptionally cold winter)?
How dry is your wood? What species do you burn? How big are your splits? How often can you load the stove? How full do you load it?

Let's see if we can save you the expense and hassle of installing a new stove.

 

[BurningBrutus]

38" from the hearth or the floor? You say the fireplace is 21" tall and the picture does not look like its 17" from the hearth to the bottom of the fireplace. If it's more than 33" from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening you have several choices for large rear-vented stoves:
Jotul F600 and F55
Hearthstone Manchester and Mansfield
Quadrafire Isle Royale (and hopefully its soon to be released follow-up model)
The already mentioned Woodstock Progress Hybrid and Ideal Steel. Those two would also be cat stoves similar to the BK.



Anything you fancy; preferably non-combustible of course. You could stuff some Roxul in the back of the fireplace and then put some black sheet metal in front, or a layer of bricks, or durock with some finish to it. I am sure you will get quite a few suggestions and examples if you ask here.



Check the manual. I think BK recommends 2 ft vertical pipe before any horizontal run. And I don't see how you can avoid a horizontal run even with two 45 degree pieces when the Princess is sitting in front of the hearth.

However, after skimming through some of your older posts I would also suggest backing up for a moment and figure out whether the Super is really too small for you.

What size is your home? How well is it insulated? How often did the Super not provide enough heat (don't forget we had an exceptionally cold winter)?
How dry is your wood? What species do you burn? How big are your splits? How often can you load the stove? How full do you load it?

Let's see if we can save you the expense and hassle of installing a new stove.

I was figuring putting the 45 on first, then a straight piece, then another 45, but if the need a 2ft vertical first then that wont work, maybe someone can confirm this 45 first method.. My house is 2100 sq ft. built in 89, so im sure its standard insulation. no blown in attic. one of my issues is that my family room would be lets say 74, kitchen would be 68, upstairs would be freezing, i would say 60. unfortunately i have a stairs that goes up 5 steps, then 90's to another 9 steps, then 90's to the hallway, so getting heat up there is a huge problem. I do close of a bedroom all year long, i would say it is about a 15 by 15ft room. Also, i would only maintain my 74 for about a hour or two, and then i would have to keep increasing the air to open more (move air control to the left) to get more heat, so i am constantly baby sitting this thing to maintain high heat. i agree we did have a very cold winter, but i dont want to have to worry about that because what if we have another cold winter again. my wood is about 16%, i have a tester. its mixed hardwoods. splits are good size, and 16 to 17inches long. i was getting about 8 hour burns on a full load, i load it all the way everything. so 3 times a day.

I would love the longer burn times, more heat, and no baby sitting. I want to be in my underwear almost sweating if i want. i want to be able to get to 80 if needed. Not a good picture i know.

am i asking for to much?

 

[BurningBrutus]

grisu, see pics for measurements, it actually sits off the ground 9 inches (from the hearth) and hearth to top is 38.

 

[Grisu]

You are measuring to the top of the surround which is probably covering some of the bricks, too. Looking at your first picture, it is about 10.5 layers of bricks from the hearth to the top of the fireplace opening. That is the max height a rear-vent stove can have for the flue exit. See how much that is. The Woodstocks start at about 26.5"; above 33" you have pretty much free choice from the list I posted earlier; anything in between you have to check the particular stove. All those stoves are ~3 cu ft firebox and will give you longer burn times and more heat but you will also need more wood.

Are you testing the wood by splitting a few pieces and them pushing the pins into the new surface along the grain? Do you know how long it has been split and stacked? Or is it kiln-dried?

Anyway, the wood may not be really a problem. That's a lot of area to heat for the Super. You will benefit from a larger stove but when there is no or inadequate insulation in your attic I highly recommend upgrading that, too. Your idea of sweating in the stove room will otherwise be hard to achieve even with a bigger stove. Did you live in the house before installing the Super? What other heat source did you use and how much fuel did you go through in one winter? Ever thought about an energy efficiency audit?

 

[BurningBrutus]

yes, we are about 11 bricks up from hearth, with gives us about 30 inches.

Yes, i cut and take measurement with the prongs, dont worry, the super burns like a mother. The wood is not the issue. Yes, i lived in the house 10 years before my super, i was always using my furnace. No issues there, just wanted to get the house hot as well without using the furnace so thats why i wanted the insert. Pluse i grew up on a wood fireplace, so i love it, and i like being so called "off the grid" and yes i probably could use a energy audit.

So with these measurements do you think the wood stocks would be my only choice?