Wood Burner going Pellet I think

[bags]

IMHO I personally feel that the Heatilator Eco-Cab 50 is a damn good bang for the buck. I would much rather have it than other choices in that price range. Hands down!$1,299 at Farm and Land Supply in MN and WI. Google the place or Eco Cab 50 for sale. Add $200 shipping costs and no tax brings it to $1,500 bucks. It is basically a no bells and whistles Quad but still quite nice and comes with a stat. Made up with Quad parts. If that was my price point that is what I'd buy without a doubt for a economical cost stove.

The Eco's also have a PS line that's reasonable in price. The PS 50 is the same but smaller hopper and different cabinet style. Everything I've seen the owners seem to be happy owners with dependable work horse stoves and there are quite a few of them here. Bottom line it's what works for you and what you can justify spending. tjnamtiw has a great point above and there are many options. Some great. Some good. Some not so good. There are many that fall into each of those categories. Research, read, compare, and repeat. Pick some possible models that might work for you and research them thoroughly. Ask specific questions here about them too. Then filter out the sugar coating and such to make an informed decision. It's like Chevy, Ford, and Dodge diesel truck owner bias. LOL!

TJ runs Quads and they are great stoves. Also keep in mind every make has different models with issues. Some makes seem to have issues with every model. Narrow it down and think it out. The more reading and research you do the better investment you will make no matter what amount you spend. It's your life, your money, and your stove.

 

[bags]

Yeah, That is another huge issue. Lack of cleaning and operator error and many will piss and moan about a piece of junk stove when in reality they are the reason it's not working.

 

[bogieb]

Just saw on CL where someone is selling their pellet stove to install wood stove. I don't think one is really any worse than the other, you just have to manage your expectations accordingly.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Just saw on CL where someone is selling their pellet stove to install wood stove. I don't think one is really any worse than the other, you just have to manage your expectations accordingly.

And I bet they hook the wood stove up to the 4" pellet vent piping! Duh.........

 

[SXIPro]

I own a pellet stove and it is my only source of heat. If I were just looking for supplemental heat, I'd go with a wood stove. Radiant heat is more comfortable, there's not a constant wind tunnel in the house, and the very best part is the silence of a wood stove. With a wood stove you only hear pleasant things like the crackling of the fire, not the consistent drone of two blowers, an auger motor and some harmonic buzzing and/or rattling. My favorite day of spring is when I can shut off the pellet stove and put away the fans used for circulating the heat.

 

[alternativeheat]

That or there is an arsonist on the loose. That's a bunch of chimney fires. Must have a blind building inspector too. Dunno.......

Bags, you have to consider that with a lot of these box store stoves you actually have to set dampers, feed and air mixes. On a Harman it's a bit tough to get it wrong because the ESP keeps a hot vent temp in comparison to what someone might do on their own with one of these other stoves. If they had a creosote fire in a wood stove vent but running a pellet stove it could be too that the stove should never have gone into a 6" vent. But if it was pre existing creosote in there, then they surely going to have a fire with either stove !

 

[bags]

I get the fact that some stoves are much more manual to operate but that doesn't burn houses down regardless. Bad installs and owner neglect do. The adjusting dampers and all still doesn't make pellet burning as labor intensive as burning with wood either. Wood burning = Work. Pellet burning is less no matter how you stack it all up. Everything has it's pros and cons with any type of heat including others besides pellet and wood burning. And I agree fully it is better to listen to a quiet fire than all kinds of blowers and mechanisms running. It is all in what one is willing to spend, do, and deal with for warmth. I've said it before. If I had my way the poor ole' wife would be sitting on the couch in a snow suit but that's not worth the other type of heat I'd be dealing with.

I also understand the Harmans are about the least amount of work and stuff pellet wise but other stoves can be lumped in there also. General statement. That's another reason I dug deep into my pockets and bought it and was looking at the options I was then. I want to make up for lost time being a wood burning slave. Again, just me and TJ hit the nail on the head. When it becomes more like work than recreation then it's time to hang it up. I can have a very hectic schedule often and then throwing wood chucking on top. No thanks. That hasn't been working for me lately so I opted for an easier solution and for me it was without a doubt pellet stoves. Dump a couple of 40 lbers a day and pretty much so done. What a relief.

A stealth pellet stove would be an awesome deal. My wood burning can be stealth and inside the house firewood mess free. The OWB is outside and I don't hear a thing other than the central forced air system kicking off and on distributing the hot water wood heat. The areas of radiant floors are completely noise free. I'd still rather deal with the noises and easy pains of a pellet stove than cut wood and chuck wood all year. That's just me. Call me crazy.

I was referring to a blind building inspector with a bit of sarcasm. They likely were not inspected. Even if they were the chimneys were not cleaned and cared for properly. Or even had other issues to begin with possibly. Therefore, pellet stoves can not be blamed as the problem. Now if the pellet stove blew up and caught fire in the living room burning the house down then that would be another matter. Highly unlikely. Wood stoves can be safe too if properly install and used with common sense. Common sense tells me right now that heating with wood and mine is "free wood" just does not make sense for me presently. I have struggled the last few winters with it because I was busy and the weather uncooperative. This last year when I as out of town for work from Jan thru June and the wife had to schlep wood was the straw that broke the camels back. Let me have her tell you about how heating with wood is so great and HER preference on wood vs. pellets. Another main reason I made the pellet stove move and why I chose what I did. She has been real nice lately.........

 

[Chitownhillbilly]

I am a volunteer fire fighter. 11 out of 13 chimney fires I went to last year were pellet stoves! So that is a load of crap!! A pellet stove is just as dangerous as a wood stove if not properly maintained, just ask your insurance company!

Funny you mention it. My Insurance company would not cover me with a wood stove without changing the policy and costing me more. In the same conversation with the same person I asked about a pellet stove and was told no changes were necessary to my current policy if it was installed to code.

 

[3650]

Was that a volunteer fire inspector too?

 

[tjnamtiw]

Was that a volunteer fire inspector too?

I think her name was Helen Keller.

 

[bags]

That is kind of my thinking and with the price of seasoned cord wood here pellets a cheaper per BTU. and I think the more but not completely automatic nature of a pellet stove will result in less oil being burned. I also like the idea of being able to control it better. No 90 F in the living room with the door to the porch open so it cools down to 85.

I am interested in the amount of cleaning time required in an Englander 25EP and a Harmon P43

Another point I'd like to share is that I was also mainly looking to heat during the shoulder season or beginning and end of the heating season to reduce the amount of wood I used each heating season. Another words, using the pellet stove in a sense to supplement my centraI system and OWB. I didn't want to fire up the OWB and keep feeding it to only use a small amount of the heat produced to get the house temp raised 10 degrees or so.

Although the Woodmaster shuts down and idles when heat is not needed (water loop is up to temp) it still burns wood. I thought this was a waste and a bunch of unnecessary work using wood that I was not benefiting from to a large degree. Once I fire it up I run it until I shut it down in the spring. I have also mitigated that some by using my inside wood burners until that wasn't beneficial. Not fun waking up in a cold home nor coming home to one nor getting up in the middle of the night to reload.

What I discovered and was more than I was truly hoping for was the fact I now CAN heat my entire home with the pellet stove all winter. I don't need the wood burners even in the coldest times which we have had here already. I bought the second pellet stove to do another area and supplement the main stove. What are you trying to supplement? Could you possibly get the right pellet set up and then what you are supplementing could become the pellet stoves supplement ultimately being a big savings? Just some things to consider. Many here heat with only a pellet stove. You have to figure out if it is feasible for you and your lifestyle and budget. Just tossing out options.......

How many SQ FT and what type of floor plan? If you are looking for a "supplement" very occasionally I would stick with a wood stove and save my money. I am not pushing pellet stoves because I don't live in your house and I am not you. Everyone has different needs. Showing options of what I wanted or was looking for and what I ended up with. I was very skeptical about being able to do what I wanted to do with a pellet stove. I was pleasantly surprised too. I thought once it hit the 20's and lower outside the OWB would be coming on. Not the case here now.

Sorry to jack your thread. Just trying to be helpful. Others have good points too. Digest everything here and analyze what you are really looking for and consider options. This forum and everyone's thoughts here helped me tremendously and I am happy I read and listened to advice from everyone. Taking it all in and serious thoughts and your answers will come to light. It's a bunch to think about and figure out. People here mainly want to help others and guide them to form their own conclusions because every person and situation is different. Good Luck!

 

[OhioBurner©]

There are many things different between pellet stoves and wood stoves. One isn't better or worse than the other, they have different features. So it depends on your particular situation.

The main reason I started burning wood was to save money. Wood is way cheaper than pellets, even if I have to buy it (which mostly I don't). Sure there is a small cost of fuel and equipment, but that depends how much your spend and for me isn't very much. I also love being in the woods even if it 'working'. I also love swinging an axe and getting a good workout. Yeah I run marathons for fun too, climb mountains, paddle down rivers... splitting and stacking wood is barely a decent workout. What I don't like is getting up early in the morning or not getting up and having a cold house. I like to get good sleep.

I have a pellet stove too, just installed at the beginning of the season. I like having the option of either wood or pellet. And when both stoves are called for, I like not having to deal with loading two stoves which never seemed to synch up perfectly with burn times. On working days I have somewhat narrow windows of when I can load the stoves, and 2 stoves was a pita. One wood stove and one pellet does make it much easier, and I can sleep in the morning knowing that while the woodstove may go out the pellet will at least keep part of the house warm.

So far maintenance and cleaning is much more a pain in the pellet stove. But this greatly depends on the model and mine has had some issues. But daily cleaning is a pita even if its only 5 minutes (plus 30+ for shutdown and startup). Woodstove needs a couple minutes maybe twice and week, though at times I've let it go 1-2 weeks even. And cleaning the flu is pretty easy once a year thing, no opening exhaust ports, combustion blowers, hidden passage ways, and leaf blowers to deal with.

Of course lots of other factors like backup for power outages, cooking on the top, beauty, etc, etc.

For me I'd say I enjoy wood heat as primary and pellet as backup, though this year I'm leaning more on the pellet due to lack of firewood ready.

YMMV

 

[OhioBurner©]

Burning with an indoor stove is not a load it once or twice a day proposition. No way in hell. I'd like to see that magical stove! Did it come with a unicorn?

I believe this isn't all that uncommon. For one look at the BK threads where 1 or 2 loads a day is more like normal. Some have gone what 40-50 hours on a low burn with eco bricks?

 

[bags]

I believe this isn't all that uncommon. For one look at the BK threads where 1 or 2 loads a day is more like normal. Some have gone what 40-50 hours on a low burn with eco bricks?

I'd have to see it to believe it on the 40-50 hour burn times. That is nearly impossible in what I've seen and experienced but I don't have a BK. There are plenty of people that pump up expectations on these outdoor wood boiler units too saying they get 3-4 days burn times and only use 6 cords per season. Yeah, OK, I hear ya....

I'd also like to see and experience that first hand. Not being argumentative or trying to start a pissing match but many things I see and read are stretched. How big was that fish the master stove stud guy getting 50 hours burn times caught? Catch my drift here, Ohio? Be honest. How many true 10 hour burn times have you ever gotten in one of your stoves? Now multiply that by 4 to 5 times. Highly suspect IMHO.

I am in shape also and all I said is wood for me is a bunch of extra work and does not fit my life right now. When you burn 8-12 cords a year and almost no time to deal with it then it's much different than 3- 4 at your leisure sport cords. I used to really enjoy the entire wood experience and am lightening my load to get back there some day hopefully but I like pellets a whole lot now. My wood burners are not going anywhere. Just like you admitted contending with 2 wood stoves was a PITA. I get it brother. Believe me, I get it.

My point is people asking should get facts and not false high hopes with rainbows and unicorns. Sugar coated fluff setting them up for future disappointment. They need consistent, factual, and realistic averages. Give them the real dirt and worst case and it only gets better from there. I see too many people sold a bag of unicorn tricks on pellet stoves too. Not here, but wherever they bought their "used one season" or "like new" stove for sale on craigslist. They had some high hopes and a lead balloon experience.

 

[Highbeam]

I'd have to see it to believe it on the 40-50 hour burn times. That is nearly impossible in what I've seen and experienced but I don't have a BK.

That's right, you haven't experienced a BK. If you had you would know that even the medium sized BK is rated for, and makes, 30 hour burn times. It's about as close to a pellet stove as you can get. I reload my BK woodstove once per day unless it is really cold and then I drop to 12 hour load cycles but not a full load.

I sold an old fashioned wood stove to buy this modern BK for just this reason. Long burn times. They are real, efficient, and clean.

I would love to also have a pellet stove simply because I don't have to load the stove with logs even one time per day. Just dump a bag of chow. That's pretty nice. What's nicer is not spending large amounts of time processing firewood every year. It would be good to have both types.

Our pellets are doug fir and under 200$ per ton. Our log loads are under 100$ per cord but then you need to CSS it. Buying CSS firewood is 200$ per cord. Still cheaper than pellets but less convenient.

 

[bags]

I will check out the BK. Sounds promising and like great stove. But in all fairness and defense of what I stated about inflated tales, stories and opinions misleading people I have already just watched the max burn times lose 10 to 20 hours in two posts. 40 to 50 hours is much more than 30 hours referring tomax burn times. It is far, far less than the more realistic 12 hour times you see mostly. In ideal situations and warmer temps I can get max of 1 1/2 days in the inefficient OWB. Ideal once in awhile is situations is not a realistic burn time.

This is my point. We started at 50 hours, then down to 30 hrs., and wind up knocking the fluff of and Wahla! 12 hrs. That is 38 hours different. 1.5 days. I get the stated 30 hours but that is likey when the pellet stove uses a half a bag of feed in 24 hours. It's warm out and almost not needed. Also if the stove is great and I am impressed and intrigued why do you really want a pellet stove? Same reason I did. CSS wood is what? A bunch of time and work which was another one of my points.

 

[SKOAL MAN]

Precisely, bags! I would venture to guess all 11 were stupid installation/operation mistakes. Heaven knows there are a lot of people out there who should NOT be running pellet stoves! Or ANYTHING mechanical.

You hit the nail on the head! Every fire was because of an improper install or not cleaning the chimney properly, if they even cleaned it at all. I should clarify, they weren't all chimney fires, they were fires with a wood burning appliance! A couple of them the outside of the stove caught fire from a mouse nest and pet hair!

 

[OhioBurner©]

I will check out the BK. Sounds promising and like great stove. But in all fairness and defense of what I stated about inflated tales, stories and opinions misleading people I have already just watched the max burn times lose 10 to 20 hours in two posts. 40 to 50 hours is much more than 30 hours referring tomax burn times. It is far, far less than the more realistic 12 hour times you see mostly. In ideal situations and warmer temps I can get max of 1 1/2 days in the inefficient OWB. Ideal once in awhile is situations is not a realistic burn time.

This is my point. We started at 50 hours, then down to 30 hrs., and wind up knocking the fluff of and Wahla! 12 hrs. That is 38 hours different. 1.5 days. I get the stated 30 hours but that is likey when the pellet stove uses a half a bag of feed in 24 hours. It's warm out and almost not needed. Also if the stove is great and I am impressed and intrigued why do you really want a pellet stove? Same reason I did. CSS wood is what? A bunch of time and work which was another one of my points.

Yeah I wasn't very specific and didn't mean to imply 50 hours was normal. More like a record. I mean the guy had over a hundred pounds of compressed wood bricks in it! Seems 12-24 is pretty normal though. I don't have one and only read briefly about them so no expert there. But if I had to do it over again I would surely consider. Especially since my door to door time for work is 14hrs.

No my stove is no where close to that. But I have a relatively small (recently been re-evaluated to seemingly only 2 cubic foot firebox) burn tube stove. Your only going to get long burns with catalytics, and BK uses technology that I don't think any others do yet. My burn times are in the 8hr range.

Our pellets are doug fir and under 200$ per ton. Our log loads are under 100$ per cord but then you need to CSS it. Buying CSS firewood is 200$ per cord. Still cheaper than pellets but less convenient.

See a lot of the price is very location specific. Around here your doing lucky to find pellets for $250/ton (and they aren't good DF either). Only softwood I can find is AWF white pine for about $350/ton (Menards) However I have bought plenty of cut split and delivered wood for $100-150 cord. So even having to pay for wood its still way cheaper. However, I just get too frustrated with buying wood... unequal lengths, half rotten and half sticks. I have one neighbor who has quality stuff, but usually not very much. Beyond that I'd rather just spend the extra coin for pellets.

 

[bags]

It's all good Ohio! We are buddies to begin with and I was not trying to develop anything into any type of argument or anything remotely close. Everyone has a right to their thoughts and opinions as long as they are fact based. I have been wrong here and I correct any misinformation as soon as someone points it out. Ask one of my gal pals Lake Girl about that. I will be wrong again too as it's all part of the learning process. I am by zero means any type of wood burning guru, but I do have a decent amount of experience with it and decades under my belt. Probably more than some that claim to be experts floating around the oh so credible internet, so it has to be fact. There are some real seasoned experts here too that have full understanding of the burning science that have tons of real and fact based knowledge to share. I consider myself a rookie.

It is fun to have bias and brand pride so to speak also. That's part of the fun here and keeps it lively and sweeps the boredom under the rug at times. I'm sure Puff Daddy and other non pellet burning millionaires get "high" burn times as well. They are not the ones here looking for truth and facts though. We are dealing with budget conscientious people trying to save a buck and not buying $1,000 bottles of bling drink booze. People looking for facts, not expensive useless fluff.

My main objective in nit picking stuff was to protect the newbies (like myself) from being led down a pipe dream with high hopes and unrealistic expectations. I remember how confusing it was and how much digging I had to do to get to the realistic facts to make an informed decision on a major cash layout purchase. Just picking between the many stoves was hard enough with the facts. I also wanted to establish clarification on realistic and real life burn times so no one is led astray. Too many people get trick f'ed daily elsewhere but when it is somebody trying to make a good decision and digging into an already tight budget to produce heat results to keep their family warm I feel the sugar coating and high hopes is very misleading and should be taken out of the equation. Thus, eliminating unrealistic expectations and more confusion in their already lost and spinning minds. I was there not long ago.

For example there are pellet stoves advertised stating 50 to 80 hrs. on one hopper load. Now you and I know that is not the case but someone might take it as factual and suddenly they were swindled out of cash they were stretching to begin with all for a huge let down. I was also being general on wood stoves. BK stoves and money is not your "typical" wood stove that pops into everyone's mind either. Cool as they are they are not part of the poor boy general equation unless they know what they are and get educated on them. I wasn't and still am not but I will personally kiss a BK owner's ass that can get a 30 to 50 hour burn time in realistic conditions. Idle time is irrelevant and a myth in real world heating needs. Just like the load once a week pellet stoves.

IF a BK owner can get a 30 to 50 hr. burn time in MN or some other frozen tundra on a 10* 24 hr. period I will kiss their ass and process a years supply of wood for them free of charge. I know that will NEVER happen.

Stay warm my friends! Be sure to pull the blinders off too!

 

[bags]

To back my statement on these 30 to 50 hour burn times in realistic cold conditions that can be verified and proven I stand 100% behind what I said. Any BK takers? Any indoor wood stove peeps out there that can nullify this fact?

 

[bags]

So there are wood stoves BK's for example that can be loaded once or twice a day so I will eat crow there because I made a general statement otherwise. Generally speaking, as I was, they are very few and far between. My apologies! To get those results from your average store bought wood stove is rare. You can't fit enough wood in is what I'm quoting here.

I learned something so thanks. I am very intrigued by the Blaze Kings also so you can bet I will be digging into info on them. Hind sight is 20/20. I did know about catalytic or "after burner" OWB though using much less wood. I also know many problems have popped up with them at least early on. Specifically Empyre.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Yeah no prob! It certainly is rare for 'normal' stoves. Like I said BK definitely is more the exception. But its all about BTUs too don't forget. A BK wont necessarily burn so much more efficient that it will throw off more heat. It just has an ability to idle much lower and longer... so those really long burns are typically for shoulder season. How much more heat you need obviously depends on how cold your climate is and how insulated your house is. The fellow that did the 50 hr burn as I recall had like a million BTU's worth of wood in the stove or something like that.

If I get another stove I'll seriously consider a BK Ashford (love the cast iron style). Of course I like having pellets too, the combo and choice is nice to have.

I tried looking for some of the threads I have read but can't find them. There is a ton of stuff in this thread though, for starters... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2014-2015-blaze-king-performance-thread-everything-bk.132071/

 

[mustangwagz]

now ya got me wandering about blaze kings.. i got like 10-11 cord of wood laying here and im burning pellets and corn ATM.. Im wandering if i need to unload my wood furnace, and pellet stove and switch to a BK? CSS is no big deal. A log truck costs me 600 bucks and its all good hand selected wood. If i could pull 10 hours outta a load, i may consider going broke to buy one...but so far this pellet stove is the way to go for me. i fill it up in the morning before work and the wife aint gotta touch it (even though she loves to touch it.....the pellet stove guys...) its a super nice feature, and a hell of a lot less mess...maybe i wont sell my saw for a pair of scissors just yet..

 

[bags]

I agree fully as for wood stoves from what I am seeing so far I really dig the BK stuff. It's all about comparative parameters too though. For instance, IF I could "effectively store" all of the BTU's the old wood dragon outside can produce in an exceptional water thermal mass system that stays hot for a month then I could do a single burn and still heat for a month on that thermal mass. Theoretically it is possible. Cost effective and doable not too likely. This is where I am very intrigued by these BK. They are onto great things here fellas. I had my blinders on and did not know about these. Very cool set ups. Cool cost cash too.

 

[Highbeam]

To back my statement on these 30 to 50 hour burn times in realistic cold conditions that can be verified and proven I stand 100% behind what I said. Any BK takers? Any indoor wood stove peeps out there that can nullify this fact?

Thirty hours from the princess and 40+ from the king model. I don't have the king so can't personally verify the 50 hours. True, the bk is like no other woodstove and that's why I bought it.

Bk is about as efficient as the pellet stove, 80+%, and my little princess holds 50# so about a bag of pellets. If I burn that 50# just as fast and efficiently as the pellet stove then we both delivered the same heat to the room.

I have a regular Englander nc30 woodstove in my barn and it seems like I'm loading it all the time.