Wood burning insert codes

[Dwayne]

Hello I am new here and have several questions. I just purchased an older Long Mfg. wood burning fireplace insert from a guy on Craigslist. It is in excellent shape and appears to be well built. It's double walled and has a built in fan.

I have read a few places that code requires a chimney liner at least 6' up the chimney for inserts. This particular stove has a flush rectangular hole in the top with a built in damper instead of the standard round protruding setup to attach a pipe to. It was made just to slide back into the fireplace and start burning wood without installing anything else.

First question: Is this even allowed anymore. (I plan to call my homeowners insurance this morning to let them know I purchased it and ask them a few questions to cover my bases)

Second question: How inefficient will using it like this be and also how safe. It seems like as long as I clean my chimney properly it shouldn't be a major issue. It is a fairly good size stove and my chimney is 12"x8" (I think, I'll have to double check)

I realize lining the chimney will make it burn more efficiently but I am sure having that done is not cheap. Plus I would have to have something made to go from the heater up through the damper opening in the chimney which would add even more cost.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[shawneyboy]

First off as to the question on code. That is a local thing, I would venture to say a quick call to the township building and the code person can answer what is required for to meet code. Please note that even meeting code does not mean it is safe, code is the minnimum requirement.

For question one: Sounds like you are looking for a "slammer" type install. Most likely not the best option. Before considering this, even IF, and that is a big if, your homeowners policy allows it, you need to get a full inspection on the flue, top to bottom, soup to nuts. You would be well advised to get the flue cleaned anyway so have the sweep do an inspection as well.

Second question: As far as effeciencies are concerned, without the model name/number that is hard to say. Will it be more effecient than an open fireplace? Porbably, for no other reason than the fan itself. Will it be as effecient as a "cheap" one that you could buy new? Maybe, maybe not.

Lining the chimney will not only most likely increase effeciecies but it is also MUCH safer. Yes it is not the cheapest thing to do, but then what is the value of the residence, contents, and those residing in said abode?

Before you slam that puppy in there, I would HIGHLY reccomend you consider the risk/reward ratio of doing it right.

Shawn

 

[Dwayne]

Thanks for the response. I am not necessarily trying to go the cheapest route. I was just wondering if it is safe to use without a chimney liner since it looks like it was made to use this way. We burned wood my entire childhood with no chimney liner and people have been doing it for ages. I am not trying to make an argument for not lining the chimney I am just curious how it was all of a sudden deemed unsafe. Seems as long as the chimney is in good condition which mine is and cleaned regularly it would be okay.

I am going to look into how much it will cost me to line the chimney myself since if nothing else it will certainly draft a lot better with one. I am handy and can do most anything around the house myself so I will probably do it myself with the help of some friends.

 

[Eaglecraft]

Thanks for the response. I am not necessarily trying to go the cheapest route. I was just wondering if it is safe to use without a chimney liner since it looks like it was made to use this way. We burned wood my entire childhood with no chimney liner and people have been doing it for ages. I am not trying to make an argument for not lining the chimney I am just curious how it was all of a sudden deemed unsafe. Seems as long as the chimney is in good condition which mine is and cleaned regularly it would be okay.

I am going to look into how much it will cost me to line the chimney myself since if nothing else it will certainly draft a lot better with one. I am handy and can do most anything around the house myself so I will probably do it myself with the help of some friends.

Powderfinger:

There are several conditions where "the chimney or flue may not be acceptable for woodstove, hearthstove, or fireplace insert use fro a number of reasons including:

1. absence of flue liner
2. condition of liner (cracked, broken)
3. size of flue liner (more than the maximum cross-sectional area in relation to the appliance collar size)
4. failure of chimney to meet clearances

Performance and safety can be improved with a stainless steel or poured liner system by:

1. proper sizing
2. insulation that keeps the flue gases warmer (reduced creosote and maintenance)
3. easier maintenance
4. tested temperature limits."

All of the above is quoted directly from Heart Handbook for Building Officials - Solid Fuel Hearth Systems.

To make a long story short, in my case I had to go from a 13 inch X 13 inch terracotta interior flue liner to a 6 inch diameter appliance flue collar. The 13 X 13 inch is a cross sectional area of 127 square inches. This was more than the maximum allowed 84 square inches (6 inches = 28 square inches cross section area X 3 (allowed) = 84 inches squared. So I relined with an insulated 6 inch SS Flex King Pro liner.

The NFPA and IRC states that "the cross-sectional area of the flue of a chimney with no walls exposed to the outside below the roofline shall not be more than 3 times the cross-sectional area of the appliance flue collar."

So if your building jurisdiction uses the IRC (at least the 2000 edition of the IRC), then a smaller liner may be required.

 

[eujamfh]

We ran a free stove a neighbor gave us as a slam install the first year. he had been running it in an identical fireplace for years with no problem. I ran it as a slam to determine if we would actually use two stoves. We did. Then I deployed for this year, and I knew that with a liner, my wife and kids would be much more safe with a full liner install. I am anal with my burning, and I knew she would have dry wood for the year...but knowing that it was fully lined was a piece of mind. Plus, code in our area changed in recent years and now any "new" install has to have a full liner. We would have met code with a pipe past the damper, but for the extra cost, I also knew I would decrease the money paid to a sweep. I will not do it myself since it is 30ft plus to the roof, and I will gladly pay vice break my neck. Local sweeps charge at least $75 more for a slam cleaning vice a full liner. Much fast for them and no moving the stove. Granted it will be years to recover the cost I paid to have it lined...but they way I burn (clean) I suspect I will be able to clean the chimney every two years. With the other stove, I burned 24/7 and after the first year, the sweep said he couldn't take my money because it was clean. Only lite soot the first couple feet. So I guess in theory if all goes well and I get an honest inspection, I could save even more by cleaning every other year. I will of course have it inspected.

If you can do it yourself, I suggest lining the chimney. Look a this way, if you ever decide to upgrade to a new stove...you have half the work already done. Those liners aren't going to wear out, and so long as the new stove has the same size requirements as you put in...no harm no foul.

 

[mellow]

This particular stove has a flush rectangular hole in the top with a built in damper instead of the standard round protruding setup to attach a pipe to.

Google "Rectangle to Round Insert Adapter Boot"

It will look like this: