Wood burning insert first timer

[w3bradley]

Hi all,

Just discovered this site this week and it is an excellent resource. We recently purchased a small cabin in the woods (~1,000 square feet). We're in the snowbelt region of Michigan and it can get quite cold here in the winters (though not yet this winter!). We will be up here most weekends and, when work allows it, work remote for a week or so occasionally. The house was built in the 90s, but the windows are quite drafty. We're having some exterior work done on the chimney in the spring, and it got me thinking: a wood burning stove insert would be a far better use of wood than a regular old fireplace. The masonry company doing the work in the spring said it would not be an issue to have an insert installed this winter before they do their work. They don't do inserts or stoves, sadly.

The big main room of the cabin is where we spend all the time: kitchen, living room, TV, everything in one place. Very high vaulted ceilings, all knotty pine. This is also where the masonry chimney is. We'd be using the insert to supplement heating the house and take the chill out of the room from October-April-ish. The house is heated by propane. What I am curious about from experienced users here is a few things:

- What are some important questions + red flags I should ask the contractors/HVAC folks when they come out for a quote?
- What exactly should I expect in terms of process + parts? As I understand it from perusing the forums here, it seems like: new liner, insert, labor?
- This might be a dumb question, but can you have a free-standing stove installed into a masonry chimney? If so, what are the pros/cons of this vs. an insert? I've always loved a standalone wood burning stove. The opening is about 36x34.

Also, if these questions are answered elsewhere in old threads, my apologies. If you could point me to those tutorials that would be great.

Thanks!
Bill

 

[begreen]

It's a common question. Search on freestanding vs insert for several threads on the topic. Both are options depending on the setup. There are advantages to each.

It would help to see what you are starting with. Can you post some pictures of the fireplace and the chimney? Do you know the ID of the current chimney liner? Is there a ceiling fan in the fireplace room?

 

[bigealta]

Picture worth a thousand words.

 

[w3bradley]

Thanks for the reply. Very much appreciated. There are two ceiling fans in the main room. Picture attached here of the main room and then of the fireplace and chimney from the inspection report. The first owner of the home did all the masonry work. Ceilings are probably 18-ish feet at the peak—hard to tell from the pic.

 

[bigealta]

Looks like a great place for a free standing woodstove. Others hopefully will chime in with some suggestions on what would work there.

Most likely a new insulated 6" liner would be required for a woodstove or an insert.

 

[begreen]

The opening looks large enough to put in a freestanding stove if desired. It wouldn't hurt to go a bit oversized given the climate zone and the need to raise the the temp a lot, quickly. A ~2 cu ft stove or insert will do. If you go with an insert, I would consider getting it without a standard surround. The arch stonework is very nice, it would be a shame to cover it. The insert could be run without any surround or a custom surround could be made that fits just inside of the fireplace opening instead of on top of it.

The hearth may need a short extension because the stove or insert will need at least 16" of protection in front of the stove door. If you prefer freestanding, consider one that is more convective than radiant. Are you thinking more traditionally styled or would basic steel stove be ok?

You'll need a 6" insulated liner and insist on an insulated block-off plate in the damper area to keep the heat in the room and not in the chimney.

 

[w3bradley]

The opening looks large enough to put in a freestanding stove if desired. It wouldn't hurt to go a bit oversized given the climate zone and the need to raise the the temp a lot, quickly. A ~2 cu ft stove or insert will do. If you go with an insert, I would consider getting it without a standard surround. The arch stonework is very nice, it would be a shame to cover it. The insert could be run without any surround or a custom surround could be made that fits just inside of the fireplace opening instead of on top of it.

The hearth may need a short extension because the stove or insert will need at least 16" of protection in front of the stove door. If you prefer freestanding, consider one that is more convective than radiant. Are you thinking more traditionally styled or would basic steel stove be ok?

You'll need a 6" insulated liner and insist on an insulated block-off plate in the damper area to keep the heat in the room and not in the chimney.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Incredibly helpful. I am leaning towards freestanding stove, because I think it would look very nice inside the stonework and I have personally always loved them. (Also, taking the doors off the opening of the fireplace will make the stonework pop even more.)

I'm headed back up later this week and will do some more measurements. I could definitely extend the hearth myself, but I plan to have the stove work done by professionals. Hoping to get someone out for a quote next week. Many thanks for the tips RE: liner and insulated block-off plate—I'll be sure to bring that up.

I lived in the northeast for about 15 years and stayed at a friend's cabin many times where they had an old school green Vermont Castings freestanding stove, which I loved. That said, I don't know much about the difference between convection vs. radiant stoves—so I'll def peruse old threads on that. While I do love the look of a traditionally styled freestanding stove, we also want this to have real function and utility so not at all opposed to a basic steel stove if that makes more sense for the space. What are the main differences?

 

[bholler]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Incredibly helpful. I am leaning towards freestanding stove, because I think it would look very nice inside the stonework and I have personally always loved them. (Also, taking the doors off the opening of the fireplace will make the stonework pop even more.)

I'm headed back up later this week and will do some more measurements. I could definitely extend the hearth myself, but I plan to have the stove work done by professionals. Hoping to get someone out for a quote next week. Many thanks for the tips RE: liner and insulated block-off plate—I'll be sure to bring that up.

I lived in the northeast for about 15 years and stayed at a friend's cabin many times where they had an old school green Vermont Castings freestanding stove, which I loved. That said, I don't know much about the difference between convection vs. radiant stoves—so I'll def peruse old threads on that. While I do love the look of a traditionally styled freestanding stove, we also want this to have real function and utility so not at all opposed to a basic steel stove if that makes more sense for the space. What are the main differences?

Be aware that by putting a freestanding stove inside the fireplace you will in most cases be sacrificing some heat output because that stove will be radiating heat into that masonry while inserts are made with a convective jacket to help get the heat out

 

[w3bradley]

Be aware that by putting a freestanding stove inside the fireplace you will in most cases be sacrificing some heat output because that stove will be radiating heat into that masonry while inserts are made with a convective jacket to help get the heat out

Ah, got it. So an insert may be more effective + efficient in that regards.

 

[begreen]

Yes, purely radiant stoves are not ideal in this situation. However, there are a lot of stoves that are more convective if that is the choice. They will have a jacket shielding the sides and back of the stove. Depending on the stove it could be sheet metal or cast iron. An insert will be convective by design and will have the jacket plus ducting built in.

 

[bigealta]

If i were putting in a free standing stove (which is what i'd choose) in your set up i'd try to have it standing only partially in the fireplace space with as much out of the fireplace as reasonably possible. I have a similar set up but a larger opening. My jotul f400 is rear vented and its front stands only 6" in front of the opening with the rest inside the opening. It heats my house. With just a small fan (actually an air purifier) the heat is easily pushed out / around the opening, adding a good amount of heat to the room.

It heats the house without any fan, but the small fan increases the heat output.

I run the fan/purifier maybe 20% - 30% of the time the stove is running.