I have been reading about the benefits of using a barometric damper and wanted to try one this season because I'm pretty sure I have too much draft. I have the hotblast 1557 and a T out of the back of it. There's a cleanout at the bottom of the T and the top goes straight out the top, through the main floor and attic. Can I install the barometric damper at the bottom of the cleanout? It seems like it would perform just the same as putting it higher, only this will me a much easier install, won't need to be cleaned as much and can be removed if I don't like it without cutting any pipe. I attached a really fancy diagram to help with my description. Thanks.
Wood Furnace Barometric Damper Question
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2.beans
Minister of Fire
almost sure it needs to be inline/or above. look at one and read the specs it should tell you were to install it. any green wood will cause a problem though.
Awesome, the other thing I read was the calibration process, so I have a manometer coming. When the stove gets going and I damper it right down, actually completely off, You can hear the air just blowing right in like crazy and i get 4 hour burn times with a full load..and thats with new gaskets. I'll check his posting, thanks!
matt701 said:
You're probably aware that the barometric damper needs to be installed so that the pivot axis of the damper is horizontal, and the face of the damper assembly is vertical? Those are both critical, as is setting it up with an instrument to get proper draft settings. Also, I am not familiar with the Hotblast- do they suggest a damper? Many 'modern' wood appliances are OK with one and benefit from it, but with others, it's a no-no if you have potentially combustible substances potentually going up or accumulating in the flue.
laynes69
Minister of Fire
You really need to watch it and clean the flue when needed. Like said on here, it will accumulate creosote quickly. I had the same furnace for years and you really need to watch. I didn't run mine below but about 1 foot up on the furnace. If you put one in, also put in a manual damper above it incase of a chimney fire. It helped our furnace alot and was recommended, but they do accumulate quickly. Thats with me trying to burn hot and clean with my old furnace.
This is a quote from my furnace's install instructions: "Do not attach draft control to top or bottom of flue, pipe, nor in a room separated from appliance. Best location is as close to appliances as possible." install instructions
I was told during my install (which looks just like yours) just above where you have your T would be best.
I was told during my install (which looks just like yours) just above where you have your T would be best.
matt701 said:
Around these Boiler-Room-parts, I've usually been the one saying 'pshaw when someone expounds the 'traditional' concept that barometric dampers are a no-no on wood-burning appliances.
They have a very legitimate place/ role on relatively non-chimney-fire-prone appliances such as wood gasifiers
That said, I, personally, would NOT ever put one in with any wood burning appliance that might have _any_ significant possibility of creating creosote in the flue.
Reason being, that, just as the older standard practice of not putting a B.D. on a wood unit was based on, if you do get creosote accumulation in the flue and it lights off, the barometric damper will whirl full open and supply the resulting chimney fire with even more oxygen than it'd get from the normal conditions.
You don't wanna even think of going there.
Nor, in my opinion, do you want to think of combining a barometric damper with a manual flue-closing damper-- especially not with the manual damper "up chimney" from the B.D. Reason being that chimney draft from weather and fire variations will vary substantially, and if you choke the flue off with the manual damper upstream from the B.D., you will very likely have minor or major spill of combustion products, including CO, out the B.D. (they never seal tight even when swung "shut").
Raising efficiency is excellent; chimney fires and CO are not. If you have an old-tech wood unit (as I had for a long time) accept it for what it is and try to burn it hard and hot, and skip the B.D. If you want to get the best efficiencies while still being safe, get a different unit.
They have a very legitimate place/ role on relatively non-chimney-fire-prone appliances such as wood gasifiers
That said, I, personally, would NOT ever put one in with any wood burning appliance that might have _any_ significant possibility of creating creosote in the flue.
Reason being, that, just as the older standard practice of not putting a B.D. on a wood unit was based on, if you do get creosote accumulation in the flue and it lights off, the barometric damper will whirl full open and supply the resulting chimney fire with even more oxygen than it'd get from the normal conditions.
You don't wanna even think of going there.
Nor, in my opinion, do you want to think of combining a barometric damper with a manual flue-closing damper-- especially not with the manual damper "up chimney" from the B.D. Reason being that chimney draft from weather and fire variations will vary substantially, and if you choke the flue off with the manual damper upstream from the B.D., you will very likely have minor or major spill of combustion products, including CO, out the B.D. (they never seal tight even when swung "shut").
Raising efficiency is excellent; chimney fires and CO are not. If you have an old-tech wood unit (as I had for a long time) accept it for what it is and try to burn it hard and hot, and skip the B.D. If you want to get the best efficiencies while still being safe, get a different unit.
Do you really think that if you have such a great draft that you can "hear the air feed the fire", that there is a chance of things coming out the baro instead of just in? With that kind of draft how would you not just take air in and up the chimney / stove pipe?
I does make sense that if you use the baro, stick the manual damper open and leave it.
And his instructions said the stove could have a baro.
I does make sense that if you use the baro, stick the manual damper open and leave it.
And his instructions said the stove could have a baro.
I've read the benefits and downfalls and want to try it. I know a lot of opinions exist and its good to hear them all, however I'm trying it. The Hotblast isn't the best stove by far and it's not very tight. The only damper I ever open is the ash pan damper and never more than one full turn and thats when lighting it. Normally for a routine burn, my ashpan damper is 1/4 or completely closed. I took my above fire door damper apart and made it closed permenatly. Basically everything is completely shut down and thats my normal burn which as I said is sometimes only 4 hours with a full load. The draft of the chimney pretty much dictates my burn time and I have a manual damper but think the BD is a better way. I don't understand telling me not to follow the directions of the stove manufacturer (using BD damper and below a manual damper).
If the equipment is inside a home or shop I would highly recommend installing a top quality CO detector. In fact with or without a damper ALL wood or fossil fueled appliances should have a CO detector along with them. I like the CO Experts brand as it alerts at low levels and has proven to be reliable and long lasting.
The manufacturer of the devices application and installation directions should always trump the aftermarket instruction. The original manufacturer has liability and may not know or approve others installation suggestions.
Having been through a CO lawsuit recently, I can tell you CO is to be taken seriously. A CO suit will involve any an all that touched, supplied or installed ANYTHING on the system. The job was not one I installed, but I had been on that property for another plumbing call and got caught in the case. Included was every LP company that ever supplied to the home, every manufacturer including the boiler and woodstove manufacturer. The owner had plugged off all the combustion air inlets to the home and boiler and wood stove.
hr
The manufacturer of the devices application and installation directions should always trump the aftermarket instruction. The original manufacturer has liability and may not know or approve others installation suggestions.
Having been through a CO lawsuit recently, I can tell you CO is to be taken seriously. A CO suit will involve any an all that touched, supplied or installed ANYTHING on the system. The job was not one I installed, but I had been on that property for another plumbing call and got caught in the case. Included was every LP company that ever supplied to the home, every manufacturer including the boiler and woodstove manufacturer. The owner had plugged off all the combustion air inlets to the home and boiler and wood stove.
hr
laynes69
Minister of Fire
Ours was installed for years. I made it a habit to check the flue and clean it when needed to avoid a chimney fire. I also swept the chimney when the flue pipe came off. CO2 detectors are a given with any solid fuel appliance. My new furnace has a baro in it, but is EPA Certified. Its much more efficient than our old one. Yeah putting it down below the stream of gasses may keep it clean, but anyway its intalled, the flue will build quicker with it on. The one thing to combat it is to burn it hot and clean. I would do it, and its what the furnace manufacturer recommends.
LeonMSPT
Minister of Fire
1. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations for BD use.
2. If you install a BD, make SURE you CLEAN your chimney connector pipes regularly.
I set mine up with radiused "T's" and plugs on the horizontals... cleaning time comes I take three screws out, whack em a couple times with a stick and mallet and remove the plugs. Run a brush on a short section of rod in and out a few times. Then I use a hand brush to clean the vertical and DB. Back together and fired inside of ten minutes.
Should you fail to clean the chimney connector pipes regularly and well, and allow creosote to accumulate, you not only WILL have a chimney fire, but it's going to be a whopper because of an unrestricted air supply.
It's why I like burning coal in my boiler when the conditions are marginal. High demand on the boiler causes the boiler to crank so wood is good then. When the boiler is idling alot, it makes soot and creosote like it's going out of style. Smoke too...
2. If you install a BD, make SURE you CLEAN your chimney connector pipes regularly.
I set mine up with radiused "T's" and plugs on the horizontals... cleaning time comes I take three screws out, whack em a couple times with a stick and mallet and remove the plugs. Run a brush on a short section of rod in and out a few times. Then I use a hand brush to clean the vertical and DB. Back together and fired inside of ten minutes.
Should you fail to clean the chimney connector pipes regularly and well, and allow creosote to accumulate, you not only WILL have a chimney fire, but it's going to be a whopper because of an unrestricted air supply.
It's why I like burning coal in my boiler when the conditions are marginal. High demand on the boiler causes the boiler to crank so wood is good then. When the boiler is idling alot, it makes soot and creosote like it's going out of style. Smoke too...
Ultimately, none of it is a matter of what instructions say, or local code says, or what some inspector says...
It's a matter of what you are comfortable going to sleep with expecting to wake up, and in decent health, the next morning.
I say that from the vantage point of someone who, a long time ago, went to sleep with a situation that all of the above said was better than OK, and then woke up at 4 +/- AM to go to the bathroom and found I had a horrible headache and a house that was full of wood-smelling-fumes.
Wrong combination of appliance, slightly unusual weather patterns, and assumed norms of all of the "experts" who'd installed and inspected things.
I am, I think, P M F F- pretty miraculously ... something ... fortunate. If I had not needed to take a Wh** at 4 AM (and then, upon noticing the headache and smell, threw open the windows, damped the fire, and put some box fans in the windows in February) I am not sure that I or anyone else in the house would have awakened OK
Code, instructions, whatever?
Make sure you have uttermost confidence that you and the people who you care about will wake up the next day no worse.
such experiences helped reinforce my already-existing notion that a scrupulous self-DIY-er may often do a better and safer job than someone who is supposedly credentialed and who proceeds on the basis of "we always do it this way..."
It's a matter of what you are comfortable going to sleep with expecting to wake up, and in decent health, the next morning.
I say that from the vantage point of someone who, a long time ago, went to sleep with a situation that all of the above said was better than OK, and then woke up at 4 +/- AM to go to the bathroom and found I had a horrible headache and a house that was full of wood-smelling-fumes.
Wrong combination of appliance, slightly unusual weather patterns, and assumed norms of all of the "experts" who'd installed and inspected things.
I am, I think, P M F F- pretty miraculously ... something ... fortunate. If I had not needed to take a Wh** at 4 AM (and then, upon noticing the headache and smell, threw open the windows, damped the fire, and put some box fans in the windows in February) I am not sure that I or anyone else in the house would have awakened OK
Code, instructions, whatever?
Make sure you have uttermost confidence that you and the people who you care about will wake up the next day no worse.
such experiences helped reinforce my already-existing notion that a scrupulous self-DIY-er may often do a better and safer job than someone who is supposedly credentialed and who proceeds on the basis of "we always do it this way..."
LeonMSPT
Minister of Fire
pybyr said:
3. Always have at least two working smoke and CO detectors in the house.
Glad things worked out well. FWIW the contractor who installed my wood boiler "doesn't use BD's on the, if you have a chimney fire it's going to run away". Without the BD it wasn't a matter of "if" but "when".
Yes, I use a barometric draft regulator on all of my solid fuel appliances and wouldn't burn without one. It is a must that you have a CO detector installed in your home. I highly recommend you purchase a draft gauge to calibrate your weight on your barometric draft regulator, to the manufactures inches of water value. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/6T163 I use this gauge and I find it a tool that I don't know what I did without one before.
You will find that burning in your appliance will become easier to regulate the temperature and become more fuel efficient, with a barometric draft regulator installed into your stovepipe.
With one installed, you may want to even try burning coal. You will be very impressed with coal. Without a barometric draft regulator, you can't burn coal properly, because it will be impossible to control the draft.
When burning wood, just keep an eye on your chimney for creosote. One hot fire a day for 10-15 minutes, will help burn off any creosote which may have accumulated from choking the wood fire or burning wet or damp wood.
You will find that burning in your appliance will become easier to regulate the temperature and become more fuel efficient, with a barometric draft regulator installed into your stovepipe.
With one installed, you may want to even try burning coal. You will be very impressed with coal. Without a barometric draft regulator, you can't burn coal properly, because it will be impossible to control the draft.
When burning wood, just keep an eye on your chimney for creosote. One hot fire a day for 10-15 minutes, will help burn off any creosote which may have accumulated from choking the wood fire or burning wet or damp wood.
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
Taxidermist, very cool video! That was educational and will help others understand the barometric draft regulators function. I was wondering if you ever thought of extending the straight pipe of the Tee cap to make a larger collection area for the fly ash? Just a thought. Nice job!
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
mike1234 said:
An inquisitive person can learn things even from an idiot-
-unless the idiot is closed off to the possibility that they might learn from someone else
-in which case, you have fallen into an intellectual version of perpetual immobility. What a self righteous hole to fall into!
I apparently have little future in diplomacy
[though I don't think I am in any way likely to be the person that someone mentioned about ignoring]
[my great-great grandparents climbed up and out of coal mines to become owners of steel companies- due to the willingness to learn anything that they could from anyone - though, also, all the wealth is long gone a couple of generations ago due to some who thought that they could not learn anything from anyone] I apparently lack subtlety in which of the above sides that I choose.; I kind of think it might be apparent why. I will never feel shame for sweat and grime; I will, though, dance on the graves of the smartypants fast-buck-types.
So, in reading this helpful forum, I started looking around the house. I have 2 CO/Smoke detectors made by BRK. Never heard of BRK, so I bought a kiddie CO2 meter/alarm with a digital numbered display, so I appreciate all the info and advice. I have a magic heat, I bought it brand new and used it for about a week. I can't remember why I got rid of it, but I remember reading on the net that some people's insurance companies were threatening to cancel their homeowners policy for using them. Usually insurance companies have lots of facts on accidents, risk factors ect so that alone tells me to stay away from them. Anyhow, my baro damper is installed. I have not got the oil in the manometer yet to set it, but I set it so no smoke comes out of the door for few trial fires. I have a nice blue flame and it's not getting pulled up into the chimney, it's staying below the baffle. I have this blue flame because I'm now able to remove the rear plug which lets air into the firebox behind the firebricks. If I opened any air inlet like this before, I'd have a 600 degree chimney in no time. The baro is letting a lot of air pass and I have a really hot fire and my blowers are running constantly..with 3 pieces of wood which is not like before. I have 2 "peek" holes in the hotblast I look in through and I can't get anywhere close to look because it's so hot. Long story short, I think I'm going to like this winter much better and use a lot less wood. I'll check my chimney more as suggested. Thanks for all of the input. Hey, did you guys hear about the guy who uses a magic heat in his sawdust burner?
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Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
FWIW, BRK is a good brand - they are the makers of one of the major consumer brands - I forget which off hand, but it's a well known one. BRK is the same units with a different packaging for the commercial electrician trade. Apparently the idea is to sell to the pro's at slightly less than what the consumer brands cost at HD or equivalent, and then let the pro's sell to the consumer at a healthy markup for the "commercial quality" units...
I have BRK's in our house, purchased from the local electrical supply house... MA did the wonderful thing of passing a code requirement for a style of combinatin CO/Smoke detectors that nobody was making at the time, and I was bugging the heck out of the various manufacturer support lines trying to find something code acceptable. BRK was the first people to come out with them, and I literally got some off the FIRST truckload shipped after they got their UL approval and started production...
Gooserider
I have BRK's in our house, purchased from the local electrical supply house... MA did the wonderful thing of passing a code requirement for a style of combinatin CO/Smoke detectors that nobody was making at the time, and I was bugging the heck out of the various manufacturer support lines trying to find something code acceptable. BRK was the first people to come out with them, and I literally got some off the FIRST truckload shipped after they got their UL approval and started production...
Gooserider
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