Wood insert DIY questions and outside combustion air questions.

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tomWright

Member
Sep 27, 2008
42
N. New Jersey
Hello folks.

New here. I have been dithering for a few years about replacing my current oil burning warm air heat with something else. It will probably be gas, after I considered a pellet furnace and decided it was not for me, or the N. NJ area. Too unusual for an area this wealthy, it would be tough if I ever sell. Not to mention Insurance.

But I am going to get a wood burning insert for my existing fireplace. This is for supplemental heat on weekends and other times I am at home, to keep the bills down, as well as to make the fireplace more usable.
I am not choosing pellet burning because I want to be able to burn fallen wood from my property as well as putting junk-mail to good use, in addition to free and purchased firewood.

Home is a <1500 sq ft ranch, wood frame, wood shingle outside walls, drywall inside, 8 foot ceilings, typical mid 1950's vintage. Decent attic insulation, I added R30 just after purchase, wall insulation is middling to poor. Full basement. Not a tight house, but not too drafty.

FP is about 36 inches wide and 26 inches high. It is 26 inches deep measured about halfway up, deeper at the floor and shallower at the top. Mantle is all brick, no wood surround or shelf.

The chimney is solid brick masonry, two flues, standard red clay tile flue lining, not sure of the size, (8x8?) three sides of the chimney are exposed outside the house, currently working and safe. Cleaned every couple of years, but I only use it a few times a year, autumn and spring. I will use the insert a lot more, most every weekend.

I had the flue for the oil furnace lined with SS liner two years ago due to the top of the flue breaking off and flaking inside. The flue for the fireplace was OK at the last cleaning, though I am seeing flakes some starting to come off it. There is a SS cap for the FP, with a top damper operated by a SS cable, the lower damper plate was removed to allow for this, though I still have the plate in the basement.

I assume I will need to line the FP flue, since it seems to be near end-of-life, certainly no more than a few years before it starts to seriously fail. So might as well line it when I do the insert.

So, questions:

Is installing the SS liner something you can do DIY easily and what is involved, including capping or sealing the flue to prevent downdraft and heat loss? How about cleaning?
I am reasonable handy, (sweating pipes, drywall, re-wiring the house, new kitchen including tile floor). See below before you answer this though.

Same questions for the insert, including attaching the liner to the insert.

Now the big question: I have read a bunch on the plus and minus of external combustion air. While I certainly do not need it to improve draft, since my house is not that tight, I am thinking of it from the standpoint of not pulling cold air in when using the insert. It seems far more efficient from a heating standpoint to not pull cold air into the house.

Is outside combustion air even possible with an insert, if so, how is it accomplished?
A separate conduit or something up the flue next to the liner?
A conduit through the ash-door in the FP floor and down out through the clean in the basement? That does not seem to buy much, just drawing air into the basement instead of the living space.
If it involves breaking through the masonry I think that may be too much.

Are there other considerations here? Does pulling the cold air in help keep smoke or CO1 down?

I look forward to any help you provide.
 
I installed an insert and 30' liner DIY style. It isn't that difficult if you have the tools you need and are prepared. Do a lot of research on this site and plan out each step. You will need a ss liner (buy online and have it shipped to you), and you might have a problem getting past that damper with the liner. Connecting the liner to the insert was the hardest part. The space was so small that I had a difficult time getting at it. A great tip is the metal blockoff plate, which you can find a detailed explanation of how to fabricate and install one on this site. I wouldn't worry about the outside air vent. I'm not even sure that is an option for inserts. Good luck!!
 
Sorry your post somehow got ignored. To start the ball rolling......

Many people do the liner install on their own (I didn't but that was more related to not having the proper ladders and a fear of heights as I age than to the "difficulty factor")

From what I know (could very well be wrong) outside air kits take air in from the back of the stove, penetrating the chase as close to the stove as possible. They do not follow the flue. They are more common with pellet stoves since there is a blower for combustion air. In that type of burn limiting the amount of air is more critical than with a wood insert.

There probably are inserts with OAK's but from what I've read they are not typical. I wouldn't consider it. You would probably have to break through masonry; agree that is not worthwhile. Also, an OAK drawing from the basement (through the ash cleanout) makes little sense.

Outside air kits are primarily for burn efficiency not smoke or CO. ALTHOUGH, I believe that some mobile home installs require the OAK so there may very well be a safety issue I an not aware of. Maybe others will help here!
 
Thanks for the replies. Sorry if I was a bit grumpy, it's been a rough week.

I have been talking to a co-worker who has a pellet stove, and also commutes with someone that has one.

My work buddy has a Whitfield. While he says it works, and heats his whole house, he is not 100% happy with it. More maintenance that he was expecting, and a couple warranty issues. Whereas his ride-share has a Harmon pellet and loves it. P65? I have yet to talk to him.

They both heat entire houses with pellet stoves in the basement, one with a ranch and one with two stories. The reason I was going with a wood insert was to save floor space, as that is tight in my little house. If I can heat from the basement, I could use a pellet stove there.

Now I am back to dithering.
 
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