Wood Insert Questions

[slayer7]

Hi,

I'm new to the site, just signed up after browsing around last week. Have learned a lot so far but still have some questions and hope the knowledgeable folks here can share their experience. Since we like using the fireplace but are tired of the drafts, inefficiency, and high oil prices I decided a wood insert would be a good choice. I'm about to purchase the Englander Summer's Heat 50-SNC13I which I thought would be an ideal model as far as price and heating capacity is concerned. I have an approx. 1200sq/ft. one story ranch with an exterior, dual flue chimney that is about 18 ft high I would guess. Now my questions...

Does anyone have this model stove and is it decent? Can you adjust the amount of the insert that sticks out of the fireplace opening onto the hearth? I see in the manual that they mention it can be installed with a "direct connection" which I understand to be a length of pipe attached to the top of stove going up the chimney with the damper being sealed off with a plate at the bottom. Is this a viable way of installing the insert or is a full chimney liner suggested? If so, has anyone had good luck installing the liners on their own and what brand kits do you suggest? Any potential problems/issues to consider? Insulation? Is it still recommended to seal off the bottom even if there's a top plate installed? Will I have all the parts I need between the insert and lining kit to install everything?

I've also read that draft is very important and I notice some units come with a kit or adapter for an outside air source. Others recommend cracking a window or something for extra air supply. That seems counter-productive to open a window and let in freezing cold air from outside when I'm trying to heat the house. Is this an issue or not so much?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get further in this process.

 

[crazy_dan]

The back off plate on the bottom that seals the chimney where the damper used to be will not included you have to fab your own with sheet metal from the hardware store.
Their a several people that have the free standing stove that is the same size as the insert you are looking at, and they are happy with them quality wise anyway (some wish they had gone bigger, but not any problems with the stove itself).
Liners from what I understand make it a lot easier to clean and maintenance, your flue.

I'm sure of the folks with insets will be along shortly

 

[slayer7]

Thanks for the reply dan. I was kinda figuring something would have to be customized.

 

[pulldownclaw]

I have a Hampton insert, so I can't speak to your specific model, but they do seem to enjoy a good reputation here.

>Yes to the bottom blockoff plate, you will keep more of the heat in your living area. You will need the materials to do this, do some searching, there's a wiki article about building one.

>I think you will be limited to where the insert is placed by how the liner attatches to the stove, nothing wants to move much after you've got them connected.

>I strongly suggest the full liner, that's what I did. No need to pull that heavy ass insert out every year and make a huge mess every time you sweep it or get it swept. I swept mine myself last week, went up on my roof with my brush and rod setup (also DIY from the wiki) and brushed it down into my insert. Worked very well with minimal mess.

>I got my liner from chimney liner depot, and it was an overall good experience. Get more liner than you think you need, don't skimp or you'll be sorry. If it's 18ft from the top of where your insert will be to the top of the chimney I would go with 25ft if it's sold in 5ft lengths.

>I will let the New Englander's chime in about insulation, but the rule of thumb seems to be exterior chimney=insulation probably a good idea/interior=probably don't need it except for possibly the last few feet at the top where it will exposed to cold temps.

>I was intrigued about OAK as well, but didn't mess with it, and don't feel like I need it now. But, it all depends on how old and tight your home is. Mine is 40 years old and not super tight, so it works well for me not having it.

Good luck and keep searching and reading!

 

[VTSR5]

...has anyone had good luck installing the liners on their own ...

Since I wound up with a smaller insert than I had hoped for, I knew I would need to wring every last BTU out of that thing to heat my 1970's era Cape. So I wanted a good tight installation which leaked the least amount of heat into the chimney. On a tight budget, I decided to install the liner and top cap myself, and make my own block off plate. While I was at it, I insulated the top 12" of chimney and also about 15" above the block off plate. I am glad I did it myself, it was fussy work but overall easier than I expected (though it took me all day long). I bought my liner from my local hearth store. Not sure what brand it is, but those edges are sharp as knives, so wear gloves!

I made my block off plate in two overlapping pieces with the joint right where the liner passes through. It was easier to install this way, and using a cardboard template I was able to get a very good fit -- no room for caulk.

My block off plate is screwed into the flue damper housing (some drilling was required) with self-tapping fasteners. Over the top of this block off plate I put about 15" depth of unfaced fiberglass insulation. This was the nastiest part of the job, and my wife laughed at my raccoon-like appearance when I was done and removed my eye protection. The nerve of that woman! Nevertheless, the plate and its insulation are very effective at keeping heat in the house. If I feel the fireplace front when the insert is working, the bricks are hot right up to the level of the damper, then they are remarkably cool above that. Mission accomplished!

I would definitely tackle such a project again if I had to. And in my climate, I think a block off plate with insulation is a "must have".

 

[kd460]

Your getting good advice.

One thing that threw me when I was planning on purchasing a certian model (and often overlooked) is the flu connection location on the insert itself. You need to make sure it lines up with your chimney. If not, do you have enough room to make the bend or use an offset adapter. This location will also dictate how much or how little of the insert sticks out of the fireplace. That and the depth of your fireplace vs. the depth of the new insert. Very critical that those numbers work.

The numbers for me pretty much dictated the brand and style of insert I purchased. I only had a couple of inserts to choose from that would a) fit my fireplace, b) existing chimney and insert flu lining up, and c) OK to use in a zero clearance (prefab) fireplace. Good luck. KD

 

[RedRanger]

Your getting good advice.

One thing that threw me when I was planning on purchasing a certian model (and often overlooked) is the flu connection location on the insert itself. You need to make sure it lines up with your chimney. If not, do you have enough room to make the bend or use an offset adapter. This location will also dictate how much or how little of the insert sticks out of the fireplace. That and the depth of your fireplace vs. the depth of the new insert. Very critical that those numbers work.

The numbers for me pretty much dictated the brand and style of insert I purchased. I only had a couple of inserts to choose from that would a) fit my fireplace, b) existing chimney and insert flu lining up, and c) OK to use in a zero clearance (prefab) fireplace. Good luck. KD

KD: for goodness sake you have been promising for months now to show us your new hearth and mantle etc. You gotta get it done and show these people how handsome our Kodiaks are. And then make it your new avatar

 

[kd460]

Surround, hearth, and mantle are all done. Have been done for awhile. I have multiple pics, and I have been trying for the past two weeks to load up my new avatar. I follow the instructions, use a jpeg pic, and it still says:

The form you submitted contained the following errors
The filetype you are attempting to upload is not allowed
Images must be one of the following image types: jpg, jpeg, gif, png
Return to Previous Page

I searched for instructions, changed file types (from jpeg to gif, etc), reduced it size, downloaded picasa2, still no worky so screw it, I gave up. KD

 

[kd460]

OK, looks like I got something right. Let me keep trying. KD

OK, figured it out. I think I will keep this one for awhile. Will work on a post in the "perfect picture" section. KD

 

[RedRanger]

Looking good KD.. Avatars are so small-least for these old eyes. You got that gold door? Or what?/ Hope you do a pic thing in the pic forum so we can all see how sweet these beasts are. You know, if we keep this up, we will damn sure give those PE Summit guys a run-for-the-money. After all, we too have "mighty steel beasts" ;-)

That are also worth bragging about,eh!!

 

[kd460]

Thanks Sonny, changed the avatar again to try and show off more of the stone work. No gold door, just the standard with a custom built surround. Will leave it for now.

Yes, I am very happy with how mine kicks out. Dumb luck that I got such a good insert that was reasonably priced and built well also. KD

 

[slayer7]

Thanks for all the good responses so far. I will measure to make sure the flue connection lines up. Any other considerations? I see that the floor of my fireplace is actually about an inch and a half recessed from the height of the marble hearth in front of it. I imagine I'm gonna have to build up the floor of the fireplace to make them even before putting in the insert. Can I use something like patio blocks for this purpose?

VTZJ - What did you use for your blockoff plate?

 

[VTSR5]

VTZJ - What did you use for your blockoff plate?

28 gauge unfinished steel from hardware store. Kind of flimsy, but easy to work. Gets the job done. Expected life 5 years.

If doing over and looking for a long life comparable to life of liner, I would go with something heavier and galvanized. I used 22 gauge galv. on a heatshield, and that is buff, but might be overkill for block off plate.

One benefit of heavier guage is that it resists better the lateral movement of the liner during repeated installs and removals of the insert (for cleaning etc). Something to consider depending on how difficult your install is.

 

[slayer7]

Thanks for the reply...and thanks everyone so far for their input as well.

 

[slayer7]

Anyone have any input on what to use to build up the floor of my fireplace to make it even with the height of the hearth? There's about an inch and a half drop to the FP floor.

 

[kd460]

Just use durock. It is sold in 1/2 inch thickness. Could just stack them 3 high or you could use fire bricks and just lay them in there. KD