Wood stove and chimney installation/ Insurance

[David T]

I contacted Allstate and ask them what I would have to do to have a class A chimney installed out side and a wood stove installed. Allstate said I would have to have a licensed installer do the job and that I couldn't install it myself even if my local code enforement or fire chief inspected it. They wanted some one with insurance so if it was installed incorrectly they could sue them. What type of license do wood stove or chimney installer have to have and does that seem correct. I live in Maine.

Thank You

 

[Heatsource]

we have a d34( pre-fab), as well as general building, and 1,000,000 in individual liability insurance
we are in CA though so not sure about Maine

 

[mfglickman]

I contacted Allstate and ask them what I would have to do to have a class A chimney installed out side and a wood stove installed. Allstate said I would have to have a licensed installer do the job and that I couldn't install it myself even if my local code enforement or fire chief inspected it. They wanted some one with insurance so if it was installed incorrectly they could sue them. What type of license do wood stove or chimney installer have to have and does that seem correct. I live in Maine.

Thank You

We had a local chimney sweep do it. Called and asked, we discussed liners etc. And he ordered us a thicker liner forth same price we would have paid online for a lesser one - bonus. he left me with his invoice and I added the town building inspector's approval for insurance.

 

[Buckeye 2012]

That is correct it is called subrogration when the insurance company gets money from an insured installer. All insurance companies are going to request professional installation for this reason. If you burn down your house due to improper install they are on the hook for the claim

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Our agent asked and we told him that we did the install ourselves and he was welcome to come and inspect. Then I went further and took pictures to him. No problem. Last summer we had a contractor do some work and the agent asked him to check out our install. He did and it brought a smile to his face. We've had this agent do our insurance for over 40 years and never have had a problem although it was his dad we dealt with first. Like father, like son.

 

[David T]

I am going to ask for my policys for home and auto from the insurance company and find an independant agent to shop around for me. I believe if a stove or chimney is inspected by the town and meets the State fire code that is a better standard that what they are asking. The vague idea of holding a "licensed" installer responsible is stupid. People come and go out of business all the time and they can't even define what licensed means. I have lots of respect for wood stove installers because that is what they do but I simply want to do it myself and will find a company that will allow me to.

Thank You

 

[DexterDay]

State Farm preferred it to be done by a Pro.... But I have done all of mine. All 4

Also, with a wood stove, my agent had to come out and take pics and measurements. With my pellet stoves and pellet furnace, they only asked the model over the phone. Pellet stove, no added premium. Wood stove is an extra $40 a yr. Not much. But its something.

 

[MichaelManley]

I have my HO insurance through SAFECO. They were surprisingly pretty easy. They just wanted a copy of the receipt of the install. They said that if the FD does an inspection AND does a write-up, they would want that. If they didn't complete a checklist, no biggie. The FD post-install inspection went pretty smooth.

My policy renews in November too, and my premium didn't go up a nickel.

I hired a professional installer for my Class-A chimney (Duravent) and wood stove with pre-fabbed hearth. They were done in six hours. And they were bonded and insured.

 

[Waulie]

Just be honest. Tell them what you are doing and if they won't insure you then f*ck them, find another company (or more likely another agent since I think there is like two actual companies left on the planet). Or, say nothing if you have a good lawyer with time of her hands, just in case.

 

[firefighterjake]

I contacted Allstate and ask them what I would have to do to have a class A chimney installed out side and a wood stove installed. Allstate said I would have to have a licensed installer do the job and that I couldn't install it myself even if my local code enforement or fire chief inspected it. They wanted some one with insurance so if it was installed incorrectly they could sue them. What type of license do wood stove or chimney installer have to have and does that seem correct. I live in Maine.

Thank You

Insurance companies all vary in what they require for a woodstove to be installed (some want professional installers, some don't care), inspections (some will send their own agents, some are happy with the FD or Code Enforcement Officer doing the inspection, some have you fill out a checklist and some do nothing) and cost (some add to the premium and some make no changes.)

At this point I think you would have three options.

Option 1: Tell the agent/company you want to install it yourself and install it to code (if not better) and that you will be dropping them if they do not give you the option to install this yourself.

Option 2: Hire a professional. If you go this route you can most likely get a chimney sweep to do this. The Chimney Sweep Institute of America (CSIA.org) is a great resource as you can plug in your zip code and find a certified sweep who has actually taken a course -- vs. hiring Joe Blow, an out-of-work guy who owns an extension ladder and a chimney brush he purchased three days ago from The Home Depot.

Option 3: Look for another insurance company.

--

In my own case Travelers required a professional install and I was OK with that since I did not relish climbing that high on my very steep roof . . . I also had to have the FD come out and do an inspection and I submitted a checklist to the insurance company. Overall it was pretty painless and the premium never went up due to the woodstove.

As you have said . . . I suspect the reason for the professional installation requirement is two-fold. First, here in Maine (and elsewhere) not everyone has the ability or commonsense to follow the exact installation instructions (i.e. they move the stove closer to the wall because it looks better there or decide a pass-through device or Class A pipe is too expensive and just use a sheet of plywood over a window or go with single wall stove pipe all the way to the roof, etc. -- the fact that you are here makes me think that you would not fall into this category, but the truth is, the insurance company has no real way of knowing how you will install the stove. Second . . . and perhaps even more importantly to the insurance company and which you hinted at, the insurance company will have someone to help share the cost of a loss if something does happen and the property burns.

 

[David T]

Insurance companies all vary in what they require for a woodstove to be installed (some want professional installers, some don't care), inspections (some will send their own agents, some are happy with the FD or Code Enforcement Officer doing the inspection, some have you fill out a checklist and some do nothing) and cost (some add to the premium and some make no changes.)

At this point I think you would have three options.

Option 1: Tell the agent/company you want to install it yourself and install it to code (if not better) and that you will be dropping them if they do not give you the option to install this yourself.

Option 2: Hire a professional. If you go this route you can most likely get a chimney sweep to do this. The Chimney Sweep Institute of America (CSIA.org) is a great resource as you can plug in your zip code and find a certified sweep who has actually taken a course -- vs. hiring Joe Blow, an out-of-work guy who owns an extension ladder and a chimney brush he purchased three days ago from The Home Depot.

Option 3: Look for another insurance company.

--

In my own case Travelers required a professional install and I was OK with that since I did not relish climbing that high on my very steep roof . . . I also had to have the FD come out and do an inspection and I submitted a checklist to the insurance company. Overall it was pretty painless and the premium never went up due to the woodstove.

As you have said . . . I suspect the reason for the professional installation requirement is two-fold. First, here in Maine (and elsewhere) not everyone has the ability or commonsense to follow the exact installation instructions (i.e. they move the stove closer to the wall because it looks better there or decide a pass-through device or Class A pipe is too expensive and just use a sheet of plywood over a window or go with single wall stove pipe all the way to the roof, etc. -- the fact that you are here makes me think that you would not fall into this category, but the truth is, the insurance company has no real way of knowing how you will install the stove. Second . . . and perhaps even more importantly to the insurance company and which you hinted at, the insurance company will have someone to help share the cost of a loss if something does happen and the property burns.

 

[David T]

The agent contacted me again and said he was incorrect that I did not need to have it installed by a licensed installer and that I should install it according to the town code and fire code. Thats what I wanted to do in the begining. So that is good. You figure if I hired a mason to built a brick chimney they are not licensed in any way so what would a licensed person be to do a metal chimney. I will do it 100% correct and if I feel I need professional help I will hire someone. But at least now it is up to me. I don't want the house to burn down any more than the agent because I am the one living in it.

Thanks

 

[firefighterjake]

Good deal . . . if you have any questions as you do the install ask away here . . . folks are pretty good at answering questions.

 

[jugro]

So what if you buying a house with the stove chimney removed for insurance purposes. I didn't measure but it seems to be installed properly. Any suggestions.

 

[Oldman47]

If you are not sure about an existing chimney have it inspected by a professional, not the home inspection guy, before you use it. BTW the chimney starts at the ceiling or the wall. The stuff before that is called stove pipe. I suspect it is the stove pipe that has been removed in the house you are buying.

 

[danimal1968]

I am going to ask for my policys for home and auto from the insurance company and find an independant agent to shop around for me. I believe if a stove or chimney is inspected by the town and meets the State fire code that is a better standard that what they are asking. The vague idea of holding a "licensed" installer responsible is stupid. People come and go out of business all the time and they can't even define what licensed means. I have lots of respect for wood stove installers because that is what they do but I simply want to do it myself and will find a company that will allow me to.

Thank You

Did you ask Allstate or did you talk to your local agent? Sometimes it's a matter of navigating the bureaucracy. Also, if your licensed installer has insurance, that insurance may (depending on the kind of policy) provide coverage even after they go out of business. Depends on whether the policy requires that the claim be made in the policy period, or whether it simply applies to claims where the underlying event happened in the policy period.

WIth a big company like Allstate my guess would be that they want a box checked on their form to make them feel better about the risk your home presents.

 

[3650]

They probably don't want to insure you period. I went to an alstate agent for him owners insurance and he was out to lunch so his assistant wrote up my policy and I paid 1year in full right there. A week later I get a letter stating my home was over insured recommending me to adjust my policy. I refused. The next day I get a letter saying to remove all the abandoned vehicles, paint and put a new roof one of my garages along with about Hal a dozen more orders of improvement. I was given 20 days to complete this. The letter said 30 but was post marked 10 days after it was transcribed. Thee cars all run and aren't abandoned and the garage has always been excluded from my policy by all the other agencies I've had over the years. The bottom line is they don't want to insure older homes. They pulled the same thing when my mom insured her house with them last year. Imo alstate sucks. They're the good hands people alright. Good at handing out cancellations.

 

[FTG-05]

The agent contacted me again and said he was incorrect that I did not need to have it installed by a licensed installer and that I should install it according to the town code and fire code. Thats what I wanted to do in the begining. So that is good. You figure if I hired a mason to built a brick chimney they are not licensed in any way so what would a licensed person be to do a metal chimney. I will do it 100% correct and if I feel I need professional help I will hire someone. But at least now it is up to me. I don't want the house to burn down any more than the agent because I am the one living in it.

Thanks

Don't forget the stove manual.

 

[countybrown]

The agent contacted me again and said he was incorrect that I did not need to have it installed by a licensed installer and that I should install it according to the town code and fire code. Thats what I wanted to do in the begining. So that is good. You figure if I hired a mason to built a brick chimney they are not licensed in any way so what would a licensed person be to do a metal chimney. I will do it 100% correct and if I feel I need professional help I will hire someone. But at least now it is up to me. I don't want the house to burn down any more than the agent because I am the one living in it.

Thanks

Good to hear. My insurance company has always been good to deal with. My agent came out, took pics and measurements. Never batted an eye about it and just sent in the paperwork. I now pay an whopping extra $40 a year for having a solid fuel appliance.

Do yourself a favor, and keep your receipts, invoices, and maintenance records. If you do the install and something ever goes wrong, your insurance company will surely be looking to find fault on your part.

 

[Plow Boy]

I called my agent after i put my stove in. She asked me if it was my primary heat source, I of course said "no" and she said right answer. That was it, they asked for nothing. She did mention afterwards if i would have said "yes" she would have cancelled me on the spot. Close call!

 

[MN nice n warm]

If you are not sure about an existing chimney have it inspected by a professional, not the home inspection guy, before you use it. BTW the chimney starts at the ceiling or the wall. The stuff before that is called stove pipe. I suspect it is the stove pipe that has been removed in the house you are buying.

When we bought our house the home inspector failed the chimney/flue due to creosote. When the sweep came out he said it was fine, didn't need to be cleaned and to use the stove often. This does make me a little nervous but I have still not flipped the bill for a third opinion. I'm going with chimney sweep inspection and have been ok so far.