"Woodstock Burners" What's Your Opinion On The S/S Scoop? "UPDATE"
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Stump_Branch
Minister of Fire
Great pics todd. I was under the impression that you could see more of the cat with the new scoop. It appears, if anything, thats not the case.
Be nice if the new one slanted like the old one, but still have the side protection. Oh and no noticed change.
Id prefer to see the cat more i guess.
Be nice if the new one slanted like the old one, but still have the side protection. Oh and no noticed change.
Id prefer to see the cat more i guess.
Stump_Branch said:
Actually you can see the cat better with the new scoop in the Keystone, don't know about the Fireview. The thing I don't like is the rolling flame inside the scoop during a low cat burn. The old scoop kept the flame down below floating above the logs.
I replaced my cat and opted for the new s/s scoop as well. The iron scoop was still ok, warped, but still ok, woodstock was promoting the s/s version so I replaced mine. I did replace the old iron scoop after about 10 yrs it had burned thru. I have a fireview and its harder to see the cat glowing with the s/s scoop because the screen glows so bright you cant see the cat behind/above it.I also got the new s/s cat instead of the ceramic, have to wait and see how both hold up.
Glad you made a post on this topic. I have often asked the same question.
When I bought mine used and rebuilt it, it had the ceramic cat and old scoop. I opted for the new ss cat and scoop.
I was concered that the bottom of the ss scoop would glow, the hitch pins and the screen. I have a similar discoloration as yours todd. I also echo that it is hard to see the cat operation with the thin screen glowing.
I am having random issues with med to moderate loads for overnight on a low burn, had an occasional back puff, also if the fire is snuffed out too far I get that upper flame in the cat.
I might switch to the old scoop as well and see what happens.
Anyone know if you can put an old cat in a stove if the insulation blanket that holds the two halves together is ok? My ceramic one's insulation band is gone so its in the two halves. I noticed cleaning my ss cat that the initial wrap is mostly gone as well.
Keep the observations up and nice work to everyone working on this one. Merry Christmas!
When I bought mine used and rebuilt it, it had the ceramic cat and old scoop. I opted for the new ss cat and scoop.
I was concered that the bottom of the ss scoop would glow, the hitch pins and the screen. I have a similar discoloration as yours todd. I also echo that it is hard to see the cat operation with the thin screen glowing.
I am having random issues with med to moderate loads for overnight on a low burn, had an occasional back puff, also if the fire is snuffed out too far I get that upper flame in the cat.
I might switch to the old scoop as well and see what happens.
Anyone know if you can put an old cat in a stove if the insulation blanket that holds the two halves together is ok? My ceramic one's insulation band is gone so its in the two halves. I noticed cleaning my ss cat that the initial wrap is mostly gone as well.
Keep the observations up and nice work to everyone working on this one. Merry Christmas!
leeave96
Minister of Fire
As an experiment, I swapped mine back to the cast iron scoop. I noticed my ss scoop was getting partially blocked or plugged at the way top. Funny, because I had cleaned it, but I would have to say better to pull the pins and give it a good cleaning.
Mine was not quite discolored as much as Todds, but I am just over a cord of wood burned through the fireview with ss scoop.
I will post my results as well with temp observations and evenness of burns.
Mine was not quite discolored as much as Todds, but I am just over a cord of wood burned through the fireview with ss scoop.
I will post my results as well with temp observations and evenness of burns.
jdonna said:
My scoop also plugged more up top as well. I think your going to find it burns a little differently with the old scoop. Thanks for the update.
Flatbedford
Minister of Fire
It being well over 50° last night, we let the stove go cold. I took the SS scoop and cat out and gave them both a good cleaning. There was a bunch oh ash in the fine grate of the scoop. I'm hoping I'll get better results of it ever gets cold enough to run the stove again.
Nice to have a little time off.
Haven't had a chance to load a ton of wood in at a time yet, but in my fireview I am getting a more even burn. The SS scoop, the burn would go left to right and flames would also favor the corners of the SS scoop. I am getting more of a pull towards the front of the air wash holes it seems now.
Haven't had a chance to load a ton of wood in at a time yet, but in my fireview I am getting a more even burn. The SS scoop, the burn would go left to right and flames would also favor the corners of the SS scoop. I am getting more of a pull towards the front of the air wash holes it seems now.
Last few days after the switch back to the old scoop I still get a left to right burn but it doesn't seem as extreme as the new scoop did. The stove also puts out a better low burn flame show and doesn't have that rolling scoop flame trapped inside the scoop like the new one did.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
After some prompting from Todd, I pulled the cat out to have a look. We had put in the new SS cat around mid-October and like the results. So, we pulled it out and found it looked the same as when it went in. There was just a very tiny bit of fly ash laying under the cat but we got nothing off the cat itself. I realize this is only 2 months with the new cat but so far we are very pleased. Also, we still have the old scoop and it is fine.
Slow1
Minister of Fire
We're running the new SS cat with the old scoop here as well. So far quite pleased overall. As to ash buildup - I have not noticed much of any. I clean it about once a month during burning season, maybe more like 6 weeks during shoulder season. I don't actually see anything on it but when I run the brush over it or hit it with canned air (outside) I do see some light dust fly off.
My only concern (obviously not big enough to call WS on) is that it seems a bit loose in the holder - i.e. the 'gasket' around it doesn't seem to have really expanded to hold it in the frame very tight so when I remove it to clean it sounds like it shifts about a bit. Perhaps it doesn't really and it just makes that sort of noise. However, as far as I can tell it is working as I get a clean burn.
My only concern (obviously not big enough to call WS on) is that it seems a bit loose in the holder - i.e. the 'gasket' around it doesn't seem to have really expanded to hold it in the frame very tight so when I remove it to clean it sounds like it shifts about a bit. Perhaps it doesn't really and it just makes that sort of noise. However, as far as I can tell it is working as I get a clean burn.
WarmInIowa
Member
jdonna said:
I think you can find some insulation to replace on your old cat, try Menards if you have one locally. Otherwise maybe a stove store. I wouldn't put it back in without at they could move and get cracked.
I'm using a new SS scoop with an old CAT, but I'm ordering a new cat today, as mine is due for a replacement. I've noticed that you have to give the wire mesh on the new scoop a more carefully cleaning to get the ash off. I take the cat out clean it with paint brush if the stove isn't hot, and do the same from below. You have to stick your whole arm into the stove to get to the back side as well. I've run about 4 - 5 cords with the new scoop and don't have the discoloration you have. I did have a nice coating of ash on the bottom of mine, which I'll leave there when it builds back up, as I think it offers a small layer of protection from the direct flames.
Thought I would bump this thread again to see how everyone is doing with their own experiments.
I am still running with the cast iron scoop with the SS cat. I have noticed a smoother, more even burn and the stove temps seem to be higher. Seems you can turn the air down further and still have some flame. I do not smoulder the fire down, so I only peak in the mid 500's.
I only get flame impingement on the left corner for a few seconds during initial bypass, but as I step the air down it goes away. Engaging at 1 or a little above.
Also, a couple of you are talking about the high temp gasket holder on the cat, anyone find anything out about it? Mine seems to have partially degraded in the holder and is loose as well. Is that a big deal, replace the gasket or what? Thoughts...
I am still running with the cast iron scoop with the SS cat. I have noticed a smoother, more even burn and the stove temps seem to be higher. Seems you can turn the air down further and still have some flame. I do not smoulder the fire down, so I only peak in the mid 500's.
I only get flame impingement on the left corner for a few seconds during initial bypass, but as I step the air down it goes away. Engaging at 1 or a little above.
Also, a couple of you are talking about the high temp gasket holder on the cat, anyone find anything out about it? Mine seems to have partially degraded in the holder and is loose as well. Is that a big deal, replace the gasket or what? Thoughts...
Flatbedford
Minister of Fire
Mine is very loose in the holder. Woodstock is sending new gasket material to me. I am getting some smoke out the stack and they think that there may be some leakage around the cat.
Interesting. I haven't noticed much smoke out of the stack on mine. But, when I check the cat is pretty red. I think that when the cat is lit off and cranking it burns the smoke on the edge, but as it is starting up or cooling off some slips around the edges?
I'll have to order some as well, I wonder why it degrades so fast? Mine was partially gone after 10 fires.
I'll have to order some as well, I wonder why it degrades so fast? Mine was partially gone after 10 fires.
I like the old scoop better. Seems to have a better looking fire at low settings, I don't like that flame inside the s/s scoop just doesn't look natural. Stove still burns left to right but not as bad at lower air settings.
My cat gaskets are fine after 1 year and I remember replacing them in the fireview about every other year as well as the bypass and door gaskets.
My cat gaskets are fine after 1 year and I remember replacing them in the fireview about every other year as well as the bypass and door gaskets.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
That is interesting Todd as we've replaced only one gasket so far on our stove and I would not have replaced that except there was a problem with it from the start. Since replacing all has been well.
Backwoods Savage said:
I don't remember who told me but I thought they said those gaskets should probably be replaced every couple of years. I didn't think they looked that bad but were definitely worn so I replaced them.
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
Cool thread Todd,
It is nice to see these things, I always wondered how such visible cats kept from getting damaged by flame impingement. On the DW's the cats sat above a dome like baffle that was more like a cast iron mesh than a baffle. By its desigs the dome shape would probably be less prone th warpimg than a flat piece of cast iron. Right above the baffle was the ss ring with small holes that supply the cat air. Good to see Woodstocksticking to their ways of constantly trying to improve on their product.
It is nice to see these things, I always wondered how such visible cats kept from getting damaged by flame impingement. On the DW's the cats sat above a dome like baffle that was more like a cast iron mesh than a baffle. By its desigs the dome shape would probably be less prone th warpimg than a flat piece of cast iron. Right above the baffle was the ss ring with small holes that supply the cat air. Good to see Woodstocksticking to their ways of constantly trying to improve on their product.
Stump_Branch
Minister of Fire
Todd, seeing how you like to tinker with these things, ill explain what the previous owner did to my fireview.
First id half bet hes on hearth.com. but s/s cat, with the old scoop. He commented on what he thought was possible flame impingment on the sides/fornt coners of the scoop near the time youd flip the bypass. After taking apart i can see that as an area of concern. He had cut, drilled holes in 1/4 mild steel, that fit neatly in these areas, with a welded 'foot' to rest on the bottom cast piece and stand it up. Decent craftmanship. Theory was blocked flame, still air flow.
I mention this because the new scoop has sides as well. While i do not have the right to left burn as you describe, i could see a modified air flow around this area being suspect.
Maybe just more expanded metal over drilled plate, but theres a project/test.
Ill post pics when it warms up and i can open it up. Near 20 degrees.
First id half bet hes on hearth.com. but s/s cat, with the old scoop. He commented on what he thought was possible flame impingment on the sides/fornt coners of the scoop near the time youd flip the bypass. After taking apart i can see that as an area of concern. He had cut, drilled holes in 1/4 mild steel, that fit neatly in these areas, with a welded 'foot' to rest on the bottom cast piece and stand it up. Decent craftmanship. Theory was blocked flame, still air flow.
I mention this because the new scoop has sides as well. While i do not have the right to left burn as you describe, i could see a modified air flow around this area being suspect.
Maybe just more expanded metal over drilled plate, but theres a project/test.
Ill post pics when it warms up and i can open it up. Near 20 degrees.
Interesting. I thought about doing the same thing with mine, adding expanded ss to the side on my cast piece. Need some time to do it.
Anyone have their cast scoop glow dull red while the cat is engaged during the first part of their burn? Mine did last night, 0 degrees a 10 mph wind. Granted I was messing around with a 7 inch round loaded in the front, with a small/med. split underneath it and two splits in the back. Stove top cranking 610 degrees.
Anyone have their cast scoop glow dull red while the cat is engaged during the first part of their burn? Mine did last night, 0 degrees a 10 mph wind. Granted I was messing around with a 7 inch round loaded in the front, with a small/med. split underneath it and two splits in the back. Stove top cranking 610 degrees.
Stump_Branch
Minister of Fire
Stump_Branch said:
I've thought about tweaking with that a few times but I've never seen major flame get sucked up into those corners into the cat and never had any signs of flame impingment on the cat. I wonder if the new s/s cat really needs all that protection the new scoop provides? It does restrict air flow imo.
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