Woodstock Fireview Reloading - not so sure about Owner's Manual direction. PLEASE READ!

[MyFyrByrd]

The Owner's Manual for the Woodstock Fireview stove reads WORD FOR WORD:
"Anytime you open the loading door to add more wood into the firebox you must first position both the bypass handle and damper lever down before you open the door. This will allow good draft to be established and prevent smoke from leaking out of the door."

What happens when you open the door with the damper wide open is a reversal in airflow at the stove's air intake. Smoke particles (invisible and sometimes visible depending on the stage of the fire) spill out into the room. This happens regardless of how well of a draft you have before opening the door. It's as though the flow of combustion air into and through the supply passages leading to the firebox are reversed.
I'm expecting to see replies that I have issues with my stovepipe or chimney. Before commenting, See for yourself. Anyone can test this by placing a lit match near or below the damper lever during any stage of the fire. Opening the loading door slowly, you will notice the flame on the match slowly move away (AWAY FROM the intake). The open loading door is drawing a greater amount of air into the stove as compared to the stove's combustion air intake causing the air inlet near the damper lever to become neutral at first and then actually pull air out of the stove.

Seeing this happen, makes me believe that the damper lever should be open for a few seconds first, then (after natural draft has increased) the damper should be closed completely just as you open the loading door to refuel. Once the wood is added the loading door is shut and the damper is reopened simultaneously.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
Is the suggested method for reloading firewood according to the manual correct?

 

[wendell]

I was going to try your test but my air has been wide open for the last 45 minutes burning down the coals so not sure it would prove your point.

My thought, however, even if it is a stove design issue is that if you didn't open the air supply up, you would more likely to have smoke come out the door when you open it and much more smoke than you would get out the air supply.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

My thought, however, even if it is a stove design issue is that if you didn't open the air supply up, you would more likely to have smoke come out the door when you open it and much more smoke than you would get out the air supply.

I'm wondering if it is because the intake damper is located on the stove at a higher elevation than the loading door.

 

[wendell]

I did your test and MAY have had the flame push away for half a second but then return to straight up.

Have you tried loading with the air supply closed?

 

[Slow1]

Interesting observation. I've never noticed any smoke escaping when feed the stove except when loading early and opening the door very quickly. Never seen any smoke come out the air intake other than when I had a reverse draft and lit up with paper once... that was a mess and a half, but different story that I won't allow to happen again.

Now to do your experiment. How exactly do I hold the match over near the intake and open the door at the same time? Is this a two person operation?

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Now to do your experiment. How exactly do I hold the match over near the intake and open the door at the same time? Is this a two person operation?

Match in right hand. Left hand used to open the door. Before opening the door, locate the match where you see the greatest amount of flame movement into the stove. For me this was not directly under the intake, but an inch or so behind where the lever meets the intake opening. Then don't move the match. Now slowly open the door.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Now to do your experiment. How exactly do I hold the match over near the intake and open the door at the same time? Is this a two person operation?

Match in right hand. Left hand used to open the door. Before opening the door, locate the match where you see the greatest amount of flame movement into the stove. For me this was not directly under the intake, but an inch or so behind where the lever meets the intake opening. Then don't move the match. Now slowly open the door and observe.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

If you don't beleive that there's smoke exiting your stove at the damper....try this. You'll need one of those cheap laser pointers and a third hand. Do the test again except this time turn the lights off (all the lights, no ambient light other than what's emitting from the front window of the stove). Have someone shine the pointer a few inches above the stovetop and or the lever. You'll see smoke particles that were not visible in the light. I know this test may seem like a waste of time, but smoke particles are harmful to your body , not to mention CO!

 

[rickw]

I think the idea is to get the flue hot and drawing before opening the door. Only in some conditions when starting a fire have I seen smoke come out of the air intake, and yes it is with the door open. If on a reload the air is opened first for a little bit (usually a few seconds is enough) then the smoke spillage out the door is eliminated - and I haven't seen smoke out the air inlet if the flue is hot.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Seeing this happen, makes me believe that the damper lever should be open for a few seconds first, then (after natural draft has increased) the damper should be closed completely just as you open the loading door to refuel. Once the wood is added the loading door is shut and the damper is reopened simultaneously.

Has anyone tried to reload this way?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

That is an interesting theory on the reversal of airflow and I will have to do your experiment. I'm not sure why or how it would cause the reversal of airflow though. One thought is that if you do things right before opening that door, once the door is opened it sucks a lot of air into the firebox and that alone could cause the match flame to change directions.

What I mean by the air sucking into the firebox is sort of like what happens when making maple syrup using wood for the heat. As the sap boils down and gets close to being syrup you must use less heat or it will simply boil over (what a mess that is). We always had to be very careful and when you saw that stuff rising in the evaporator, you raced to get the firebox door open quickly. The syrup would immediately settle down.

As you can tell, I used to make maple syrup and what a wonderful time that was! During all that time we burned a lot of wood for sure but never do I recall smelling wood smoke or gasses except during the initial fire-up. Keeping the fire hot made a tremendous draft so there was no problem.

In my youth we had a coal/wood stove and that thing could be nasty if you did not be careful opening the door. However, if you opened the draft full and waited a minute or two then there was no problem.


It has always been my belief that any stove (at least any I've ever used, including the old stoves used in my youth) can and will spew smoke or gasses into the room. The way to stop this or stop it as much as possible is to open the draft full before opening the firebox door. How long to leave the stove before opening the firebox door is somewhat dependent upon the stove, the chimney and the conditions within the home itself. Also, the door is best opened in 2 stages. Open the door maybe an inch and wait a few seconds (maybe 5-10) and then open fully.

(On the Fireview, when I say open the draft full, that also means opening the bypass, or turning off the cat.)

I have found that if one leaves the draft fully open for a minute or perhaps 2 or 3 minutes, before opening the firebox door there will be very little problems if any. What happens when you open the draft full for a time is to increase the temperature of the flue which also increases the draft even more. Theory is that with the increased draft, nothing or very little should come out the firebox door.

To test this theory all one has to do is just open the firebox door without changing the draft. Normally you will get a facefull that you do not want. But by increasing the draft it should be strong enough to not come out the door. Naturally, a dirty chimney would negate a lot of the effects but rarely do you see dirty chimneys using the Fireview.

To answer your question about the manual, I say yes, it is correct.

I do intend on playing around with this theory and also want to thank you for posting it.

 

[Todd]

I never noticed smoke out the air supply, but I can understand where your coming from. Sometimes if the weather is right I'll get some smoke out the door when building a fire or reloading and I think it's mostly due to sluggish shoulder season draft, maybe there was some smoke out the air supply, but I didn't ever notice it. I can compensate for sluggish draft by cracking a nearby window. I think as long as your chimney is still warm enough to draw it shouldn't reverse through the air supply. Negative pressures and cold chimneys can cause problems.

I tried your test and couldn't get the flame to push away from the air supply, it sucked in at every setting, but my flue temps were still at 200 degrees. Also did my own test with a full load to maximize any sign of smoke and nothing. If I open the door with the bypass closed I get lots of smoke.

 

[Bobbin]

Our Fireview is the older model and before opening the firebox door I always disengage the combustor, and open the air intakes on the door and give the stove a minute/so to adjust. After that I crack the door. If the day is particularly still and it's sort of rainy and in the mid 40s/there abouts I will sometimes open the slider a little bit to improve air circulation in our "tight" house. I've never had a problem with the stove putting smoke in the room that way. The new Classic in my studio has the same configuration of combustor and air controls, but I'm having backpuffing issues with it and am wondering if perhaps the furnace and ductwork in that buliding is part of the problem in that case. I need to do some more research on negative pressure in newly constructed buildings, I think.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Thanks for replying. I always appreciate advice from more experienced wood burners.
I Just came home from work. Decided to start up the fireview. Good draft confirmed by lighting newspaper near the stove's flue. Start a fire from cold stove with small kindling. No coal bed from the day before. left door cracked open to get alot of oxygen into the firebox during the start-up, but closed the damper all the way. With door cracked open (the only source of air into the stove at this point), I test with the match flame. Flame is sucked in at all edges of the door. Leave the door in this position (using the door's turn handle in the fully counter-clockwise position so that the suction does not pull the door completely closed). Wait about 5 to 10 minutes for the fire to build. After this 5 or 10 minute period , I then open the door fully and watch the fire really start to build. Again with damper fully closed no smoke can escape through the damper intake. Perform match test again at the door with same results. The air is flowing into the stove through the loading door, not out. Imposible for smoke to spill into the room with this draft.
O.K. , now check this out.......
I reopen the damper intake. keep in mind the loading door is still open. Now I begin to see a slight cloud of smoke exiting around the damper area. What's the deal? I'm trying to avoid being convinced that the owner's manual is incorrect on the loading procedure, but all signs so far aren't helping in this. SOMEONE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG .

 

[Todd]

Is that how you start all your fires? I can see how you would get smoke that way, the stove is getting all it's air from the open door which is way more than it needs and then opening the already closed air intake will force smoke through it because your stove pipe is already maxed out since it's smaller diameter than an open door. Sometimes I open my door and have air intake full open to get a quick start and the stove pipe will start to thump thump thump because it's overwhelmed, so I close the door and throttle down the air.

I say the manual is correct and your leaving the door open too long. Once the shoulder season is done you will have better performance.

 

[fire_man]

Our Fireview is a newer model. I haven't tried to light a match near the damper lever yet, but I do occasionally get smoke out of the air intake at times. It only happens when there are no flames in the firebox and the stove was recently loaded. The cat temp is usually climbing towards 500 and POOF the firebox lights up and I get a WOOF noise and a small puff of smoke out of the air intake. The damper lever is usually set around .5. This is not a common event.

Recently I noticed a two inch long smoky stain across the width of the right rear outside corner soapstone panel. It looks like smoke escaped between the 2 inch wide rear corner soapstone panel and the cast iron frame (directly next to the cat lever). Its funny because the stain is exactly opposite one of the two small 'holes' (by design) that are inside the firebox - the two "holes" are in the upper right and upper left corners of the firebox.

I am tired of this long shoulder season, I think many woodstoves see better performance with lower outdoor temperatures.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Is that how you start all your fires? I can see how you would get smoke that way, the stove is getting all it's air from the open door which is way more than it needs and then opening the already closed air intake will force smoke through it because your stove pipe is already maxed out since it's smaller diameter than an open door.

Todd, This is not how I start all my fires. What I described above was just a second way to test the draft reversal problem at the damper. I found this air flow problem during a reload, while the stove top and flue temps were near 300 and 600 degrees respectively. Consistent results. When the loading door is open somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 there is no flow of air into the stove at the wide open damper.
Using the long flame of a lighter set on high rather than a match will give you a better view of whats happening at the intake during a routine reload. I was hoping others would try this and post their results.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Colder air is on the way and then we can do more tests. Today is sunny and forecast to hit 48. Maybe I'll cut some more wood if I can find the time this afternoon. It is a busy day today.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Any others out there that would like to comment on this, please don't hesitate.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

This morning with outdoor temp at 20 degrees, I tested again , this time with laser pointer aimed just behind the damper lever pointed where the stovepipe meets the back of the stove collar. with lights off you could see the smoke particles spilling out big time. If I close the damper the smoke disappears.

 

[Todd]

I don't know what to say, rarely do I get a little smoke smell during reloading but I always did with other stoves as well. If this is really bugging you maybe you can rig a shoot out of sheet metal around the air supply down to the floor and that might help?

 

[Bobbin]

What do the good folk at the Woodstock Soapstone Co. have to say about your observations, MyFyrByrd?

 

[MyFyrByrd]

Haven't contacted them yet. I would love to hear what they have to say about this. I understand that they have great customer service.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I have emailed Woodstock but don't expect an answer until next week due to their big affair they have going on.


MyFyrByrd, my apologies for not doing the experiment yet. Seems when the stove has needed loading I've been somewhere else or just so darned busy that the wife has taken care of the stove. But I have thought about it. One thing that bugs me is when you say that closing the draft stops the smoke from coming out, yet, you can not entirely close the draft. So, why does it stop? Hum... Also I will state again that I have not noticed any smoke smell when having the firebox door open.

 

[MyFyrByrd]

I don't know what to say, rarely do I get a little smoke smell during reloading but I always did with other stoves as well. If this is really bugging you maybe you can rig a shoot out of sheet metal around the air supply down to the floor and that might help?

Todd,
Funny you mentioned that. That actually did cross my mind. Theres a guy that lives around the corner that is great with projects like this. Having his own tool and die shop I'm sure he would have all the tools nessesary.