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Posted By charly,
Sep 10, 2013 at 1:50 PM
Don't say to many good things about Woodstock or the moderators will shut this thread down.
We'll have to start a Woodstock owners group site, they'll be so many owners on here.. Wait until the new Hybrid get's burning,,,, we might just need such a thing....things will be all tied up with Woodstock...
Charley, expect that from Highbeam occasionally. He knows better but we have batted this back and forth for a while now. After all, having to move 2 levers.....Well, for some it might be complicated but for those, driving a car would be far too complicated!
When is Woodstock going to provide the stoves to the beta testers, and how long will they be testing the stoves?
It is in the works right now and stoves will go out soon. They are working fast and furious.
That's great news, and it brings a bit of excitment to this board. I love to see new innovation and products, and it doesn't matter which company it is. It's just plain good for the wood stove industry as a whole.
I just got an email from Tom at Woodstock. The designs on this new stove are simply spectacular. I suspect the blog will have an update on some more of the design features in the next several days.
Feud might be a little harsh. Dennis and I get along just fine. Devil's advocate is an important role too.
I have long held that it is more complicated to run a cat stove than a non-cat and it is. So long as you have to be careful of what you're burning, wait for a certain temperature before engaging a second lever, and then remember to move two levers before opening the door there will always be more steps to running a cat stove.
Totally worth it though. I was converted to cat by this forum.
Tee shirts too,,,"I burn
That explains everything
Sounds to me like the difference betweent this Woodstock long burn stove and the BK long burns will be the fact the Woodstock stove will actually put out heat during those long burns.
Ok, close it now!
Plus its going to look good doing it.
My dad can lick your dad. I know it.
Also, I can spit further than you.
As someone who's been running a cat stove for two years (well, actually two cat stoves last year...), coming up the learning curve with a mix of both very well seasoned and poorly seasoned wood, I have come to a conclusion. The "complexity" of running a cat stove has almost everything to do with wood supply, and almost nothing to do with actually moving levers and monitoring the stove. In fact, listening to the non-cat guys talk about how they throttle down in steps to get the secondaries going and maintain the right temperatures, I might argue that a cat stove is far simpler to run. But, they will frustrate the hell out of you, if you wood is not dry. THIS is why I think Jotul pulled their cat stoves off the market, citing too much required customer support on these models.
Case in point, "running" my stove involves getting it up to temperature, closing a bypass damper, and setting an air control for desired output. A child could handle it. However, when my wood is not dry enough, I play all kinds of games trying to get those cats to light off... that's when things get complicated.
THAT remains to be seen.
From what I've seen today, there's no doubt in my mind. Tom sent me some images today. Our stove is the first one of the new model being custom designed. It's really incredible what they are going to be able to do and the level of customization and detail that's going to be available on this stove, especially at the price point they're aiming for. There's nothing else like it out there.
It's the same with all the Gasification wood boilers sold out there, poor wood and you know the dealers are getting calls that their boilers are chewing through wood, going out, big creosote problems and poor heat output.. I agree, your wood is everything... Testing these stoves they are all using optimally dried wood.. Good point! Mark from AHONA heat had an elderly couple call, upset that a Paxo boiler he sold them had issues, they were very unhappy... He was good enough to drive 70 or so miles and bring them a big truck load of what he knew was seasoned wood.. Well they were amazed at the difference in the way their boiler ran and heat output.. Mark at the same time showed them that the boiler they bought from him was fine,,, again a wood issue.. He said all their wood was at like 35 % and sitting outside uncovered.. Good dry wood means everything..
Comedy at it's best! One season under your belt and you have all the answers!
If Woodstock can deliver on half the things discussed so far, it will be a win-win-win for them, us consumers, and the industry as a whole. No matter which company sets the bar higher, we all benefit in the long run. I wish them well and hope for a big success...
That's the real key. The bar needs to be moved up by the industry as a whole.
With a lot of stoves, you are actually buying 20-25 year old technology. Not to say that makes them bad, but we can do better. Too many companies spend big on trade show booths, fancy brochures and other things without investing enough in the product(s).
I have to say that I understand the sentiment. If you can produce the same stove for 20+ years and sell the heck out of them, it can be very profitable because you can tune up the supply chain, the production, the distribution, etc. and your R&D is next to nothing. If the purpose of a company is largely to make $$ (and, let's face it, most are in this boat), then you don't do more than is needed - especially in a declining market (wood stoves!).
I'd say that the newest innovation is being driven by many things, but one of them may be a sense of caring which was absent from the industry for a while. John (from forgreenheat) is really pushing for more efficient stoves, and Woodstock is doing this for more than just money. They are doing it because they want to and they can.
As I said before, in a declining market it's tough to push innovation. Realistically, it will not result in more stoves sold. But some people are taking the longer view of simply improving products and cleaning the air - to be handed to the next generations.
"We do not inherit this Earth from our parents, We borrow it from our children." A quote from my daughters school. Noticed it last night while there for a meeting. The industry as a whole needs to develop more efficient, cleaner burning wood stoves for the future.
One reason I've thought all wood stove manufacturers need to improve is the simple fact that today, homes are much closer together than they were 50 years ago. I remember as a child when almost everyone around us had wood heat and the smoke bothered nobody. In fact, at night we could always tell if a neighbor was having some problems because if so, his yard light would be on. Try that one today!
For sure those who live in the suburbs, or a village or city have to be very careful with their stoves and rightly so. We have to be aware of our neighbors! Even if we don't like them. It is also a good reason why people need to stack their wood in a neat manner so as to keep the neighborhood looking nice. It is not like our situation where I could just throw my wood in a heap and nobody would care. But then, if they saw that sort of a mess, they would be trespassing!
It really bothers me that in the past 10 years in our area we see people installing the OWB and most of them really smoke bad. In addition, they don't have tall chimneys so any neighbor's downwind have to suffer. I have routes that I ride on my bicycle and will purposely ride a different route some days because I know the wind will be wrong and I'd be breathing that putrid smoke. This sort of thing really needs to be cleaned up as it gives the entire wood burning family a bad name.
Plus if they realized how much less wood they would burn using a woodstove instead.. I went the OWB route, Gasification boiler with storage next and now back to two woodstoves in a farmhouse.. I burn half the wood I use to with the OWB.. I even burned dry wood and half loads so as to have little or no smoke...Even the gasifier wasn't great on wood, maybe 8 cords instead of 10-12 with the OWB... I remember my neighbor had a Wood Doctor OWB,, every year he would wait until September and try to scrounge 10-14 cords of wood, then sweat bullets once March came, trying to find more wood.. What a way to live....It's nice to see the new technology coming for Woodstoves..
I disagree with much of what webbie said. I don't believe for one second that Woodstock is pushing innovation because they're good people who don't mind wasting profit. They do it because they know it excites a certain portion of the wood stove customer base... their segment. They sell premium stoves at very premium prices, and simply can't afford to be another "me too."
I'm also surprised to hear that the stoves market is in decline, after the severe weather events of the last two years, in particular. My impression was that we're on a sudden and drastic up tick, at least here in the northeast.