Woodstock PH new install

[Brick (ware)House]

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the information shared on this forum. I have a PH set to arrive for install in a couple of weeks and am busy building my hearth and lining my chimney. Given everything I have learned reading posts here and with the help from the good people at Woodstock I expect things will go smoothly.

The new stove will be a corner install at one end of a ~3600 sq. ft. warehouse loft conversion. The living space is on the 2nd floor of a three story brick/post and beam construction warehouse built in 1903. The main (stove) room is about 1700 sq. ft. with 12ft. ceilings. Hopefully I can heat that and as well as move some warmer air down a wide main hallway to the three bedrooms at the far end of the space. Working against me are the number of windows and the fact that the floor/ceiling are open joist construction with no insulation and the 1st and 3rd floors of the building are rarely heated in the winter. I do have an HVAC system on the 2nd floor with two large air handlers and spiral ductwork to all rooms. If necessary the compressors on the rooftop can be run as heat pumps (29kW of solar panels to offset the electric cost) or I can burn NG to supplement.

The chimney is brick masonry integral to the wall and runs about 25ft. to the cap. I will be installing a 6" flexible stainless steel insulated liner, one adjustible 90 degree elbow and ~7 ft. of single wall inside to connect to the top of the stove. The liner install shouldn't be difficult as it is a flat roof with easy access and the chimney is a straight shot. Boring the hole in the brick wall for the T will probably take the most time. The top cap will be almost 50ft. above ground with a NW exposure so I expect to have a healthy draft. Wondering if I may need a pipe damper to help control things?

Last year I burned around 1500 CCF of NG with the thermostats set at 64-65 degrees. The btu content of that translates to about 6 cords but I am hoping to be able to keep the temps up around 70 degrees without burning quite that much wood. The thick brick walls are a great heat sink and once the space heats up (or cools off) the thermal mass has quite a bit of inertia. I don't have any outside storage but have a full 4000+ sq. ft. basement with a freight elevator so the plan is to keep a good stock of wood down there. The elevator will also come in handy getting that big, heavy stove to the 2nd floor!

Questions, comments and advice are appreciated. I want to do this install once the right way so let me know what to watch out for. I will try to post pics as things move along. Thanks again.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the information shared on this forum. I have a PH set to arrive for install in a couple of weeks and am busy building my hearth and lining my chimney. Given everything I have learned reading posts here and with the help from the good people at Woodstock I expect things will go smoothly.

The new stove will be a corner install at one end of a ~3600 sq. ft. warehouse loft conversion. The living space is on the 2nd floor of a three story brick/post and beam construction warehouse built in 1903. The main (stove) room is about 1700 sq. ft. with 12ft. ceilings. Hopefully I can heat that and as well as move some warmer air down a wide main hallway to the three bedrooms at the far end of the space. Working against me are the number of windows and the fact that the floor/ceiling are open joist construction with no insulation and the 1st and 3rd floors of the building are rarely heated in the winter. I do have an HVAC system on the 2nd floor with two large air handlers and spiral ductwork to all rooms. If necessary the compressors on the rooftop can be run as heat pumps (29kW of solar panels to offset the electric cost) or I can burn NG to supplement.

The chimney is brick masonry integral to the wall and runs about 25ft. to the cap. I will be installing a 6" flexible stainless steel insulated liner, one adjustible 90 degree elbow and ~7 ft. of single wall inside to connect to the top of the stove. The liner install shouldn't be difficult as it is a flat roof with easy access and the chimney is a straight shot. Boring the hole in the brick wall for the T will probably take the most time. The top cap will be almost 50ft. above ground with a NW exposure so I expect to have a healthy draft. Wondering if I may need a pipe damper to help control things?

Last year I burned around 1500 CCF of NG with the thermostats set at 64-65 degrees. The btu content of that translates to about 6 cords but I am hoping to be able to keep the temps up around 70 degrees without burning quite that much wood. The thick brick walls are a great heat sink and once the space heats up (or cools off) the thermal mass has quite a bit of inertia. I don't have any outside storage but have a full 4000+ sq. ft. basement with a freight elevator so the plan is to keep a good stock of wood down there. The elevator will also come in handy getting that big, heavy stove to the 2nd floor!

Questions, comments and advice are appreciated. I want to do this install once the right way so let me know what to watch out for. I will try to post pics as things move along. Thanks again.

Welcome to the forum. Don't be shy about using the good people at Woodstock for help with your installation. They welcome all questions. Good luck. Your place sounds awesome.

 

[eclecticcottage]

The only issue you may run into is the wood. With no outside storage you'll need to be able to buy seasoned wood or find some way of drawing the moisture out in your basement. I imagine it could be done if it was stacked right with some fans and dehumidifiers running. You'll want less than 20% moisture content, or you won't be getting what you want out of your stove (been there, done that).

 

[Brick (ware)House]

The only issue you may run into is the wood. With no outside storage you'll need to be able to buy seasoned wood or find some way of drawing the moisture out in your basement. I imagine it could be done if it was stacked right with some fans and dehumidifiers running. You'll want less than 20% moisture content, or you won't be getting what you want out of your stove (been there, done that).

I've been trying to work on my wood supply and thinking about the best way to handle my fuel needs. For now I will be cutting most all of my wood at my dad's property down near the Lake of the Ozarks. He runs an insert and a Hearthstone Heritage so I have been helping him put up wood for a number of years. We usually only c/s/s about a year ahead so that will need to change. He's got the trees (mostly oak), a tractor, splitter, saws, room for outside stacks and covered storage in a three-sided barn. The down side is that it is 120 miles away. I make the trip every couple of months anyway so pulling the 16' flatbed trailer with a couple cords on it shouldn't add too much in fuel. Going down this weekend to c/s/s and hopefully bag a few deer so I'll bring back a load of seasoned wood to get me started.

I would also like to scrounge a decent quantity of wood locally here in the city possibly from a tree service. I think if I transport 3 cords a year of well-seasoned oak I can mix that 50/50% with whatever I can find around here and do OK. I would have to stack that wood likely green in the basement and see how it seasons. We currently do run a dehumidifier and keep it reasonably dry down there. Your suggestion of putting some fans on the stacks is a good one. I wonder if the seasoning would actually go more quickly because you wouldn't lose any part of the year to below freezing temps and thus frozen moisture in the wood?

 

[Brick (ware)House]

Welcome to the forum. Don't be shy about using the good people at Woodstock for help with your installation. They welcome all questions. Good luck. Your place sounds awesome.

Dave - They have already spent more than their fair share of time with me on the phone! I reserved a PH last summer and then decided to wait on delivery to see how things were going to go with the new steel hybrid stove. For a couple of reasons I recently decided to go ahead with the PH instead of waiting for the new stove. 1.) I don't want to miss the entire heating season which is likely to happen if I wait for the steel hybrid; 2.) It seems like the shakedown period is over with the PH and that the current model is fully optimized - there may be a similar period of adjustment with the steel that I would rather avoid; 3.) Even with the customizable design of the steel my feeling is that the PH will be aesthetically superior in my living space; 4.) I thought that the steel might be head and shoulders above the PH in terms of performance - the recent test data lead me to believe that, although certain attributes will differ between the stoves, the two models are "in the same ballpark" performance wise. I will consider installing a steel hybrid on my first floor once it is available and there are real world user reviews to analyze.

 

[jeff_t]

Sounds like an interesting home. Don't forget the pics.

Don't count on one year oak being dry and ready to burn. Two years seems to be the accepted minimum here, three years for me.

Not sure about drying wood in the basement. Sun and wind work best. Not to mention the critters.

 

[Slow1]

I'd really like to see your home - sounds great. Having a freight elevator to bring the wood up would be very nice!

Getting wood from 120 miles a way is a bit concerning - some areas have 50 mile limits for moving wood that has not been heat-treated to kill off bugs. Even if you don't have that legal restriction, you may still be risking unwittingly spreading some pests. I suppose if it goes right into the basement then the risk is reduced, but still....

Drying wood inside might work in your place given the size of the structure. If you have good airflow that is - if you don't then consider how much water is being brought in and the potential for mold growth in the walls etc. Do you not have any outside space to dry the wood? I only have about 1/3 acre total on my lot and have managed to find spots to stack wood for 3+ year supply.

You mention lack of insulation - perhaps you can invest in some for those ceilings at least. I imagine that would have a good payback in terms of lowering the head load to make it comfortable in there.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I think drying indoors CAN be accomplished. Someone around here has mentioned doing so in an old greenhouse. Definately need to be aware of moisture buildup and keep the humidity down.

I also agree on checking on local firewood laws. In NYS it's illegal to transport firewood more than 50 miles.

 

[Slow1]

Don't know why, but I just got curious about the Missouri laws... anyway it seems you folks are dealing with a few pests there -

http://www.dontmovefirewood.org/the-problem/state-state-information/missouri.html

For all our sakes, please don't spread these pests. As much as I like having lots of wood, I rather like the forests too.

 

[teutonicking]

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the information shared on this forum. I have a PH set to arrive for install in a couple of weeks and am busy building my hearth and lining my chimney. Given everything I have learned reading posts here and with the help from the good people at Woodstock I expect things will go smoothly.

The new stove will be a corner install at one end of a ~3600 sq. ft. warehouse loft conversion. The living space is on the 2nd floor of a three story brick/post and beam construction warehouse built in 1903. The main (stove) room is about 1700 sq. ft. with 12ft. ceilings. Hopefully I can heat that and as well as move some warmer air down a wide main hallway to the three bedrooms at the far end of the space. Working against me are the number of windows and the fact that the floor/ceiling are open joist construction with no insulation and the 1st and 3rd floors of the building are rarely heated in the winter. I do have an HVAC system on the 2nd floor with two large air handlers and spiral ductwork to all rooms. If necessary the compressors on the rooftop can be run as heat pumps (29kW of solar panels to offset the electric cost) or I can burn NG to supplement.

The chimney is brick masonry integral to the wall and runs about 25ft. to the cap. I will be installing a 6" flexible stainless steel insulated liner, one adjustible 90 degree elbow and ~7 ft. of single wall inside to connect to the top of the stove. The liner install shouldn't be difficult as it is a flat roof with easy access and the chimney is a straight shot. Boring the hole in the brick wall for the T will probably take the most time. The top cap will be almost 50ft. above ground with a NW exposure so I expect to have a healthy draft. Wondering if I may need a pipe damper to help control things?

Last year I burned around 1500 CCF of NG with the thermostats set at 64-65 degrees. The btu content of that translates to about 6 cords but I am hoping to be able to keep the temps up around 70 degrees without burning quite that much wood. The thick brick walls are a great heat sink and once the space heats up (or cools off) the thermal mass has quite a bit of inertia. I don't have any outside storage but have a full 4000+ sq. ft. basement with a freight elevator so the plan is to keep a good stock of wood down there. The elevator will also come in handy getting that big, heavy stove to the 2nd floor!

Questions, comments and advice are appreciated. I want to do this install once the right way so let me know what to watch out for. I will try to post pics as things move along. Thanks again.

3600 sqare feet with 12 foot ceilings sounds like an awful lot of volume to heat with one stove. You might consider getting two stoves, depending on how warm you like to keep your place. I hope it works out though, Good luck!

 

[Oldhippie]

One awesome loft you got going there! Do you own all 3 floors? I'm wondering of you can leverage the ducting to move heat around?

Please take lots of pics during install!

Two words, Refrigerator Dolly! and don't take it off the pallet until you are ready to get it on the hearth. You are might be able to use a motorcycle jack to get it lifted up to the height of the hearth to get in onto the hearth, or a long ramp. This is a 700lb stove!! You will need and should recruit some of the Kansas Chiefs and get the middle linemen to come help you!!

 

[Brick (ware)House]

Sounds like an interesting home. Don't forget the pics.

Don't count on one year oak being dry and ready to burn. Two years seems to be the accepted minimum here, three years for me.

Not sure about drying wood in the basement. Sun and wind work best. Not to mention the critters.

Jeff - I'll be spending the weekend c/s/s multiple cords of oak to get it on the clock. I think I will put it in separate stacks with good wind exposure in the hopes it will be ready two years out.

BTW my three year old daughter loves your avatar!

 

[Brick (ware)House]

I'd really like to see your home - sounds great. Having a freight elevator to bring the wood up would be very nice!

Getting wood from 120 miles a way is a bit concerning - some areas have 50 mile limits for moving wood that has not been heat-treated to kill off bugs. Even if you don't have that legal restriction, you may still be risking unwittingly spreading some pests. I suppose if it goes right into the basement then the risk is reduced, but still....

Drying wood inside might work in your place given the size of the structure. If you have good airflow that is - if you don't then consider how much water is being brought in and the potential for mold growth in the walls etc. Do you not have any outside space to dry the wood? I only have about 1/3 acre total on my lot and have managed to find spots to stack wood for 3+ year supply.

You mention lack of insulation - perhaps you can invest in some for those ceilings at least. I imagine that would have a good payback in terms of lowering the head load to make it comfortable in there.

Slow - There is quite a bit of airflow down into the basement via the elevator shaft. The big dock door on the back side of the shaftway lets in a ton of air. I think the key would be to put any green wood down there at this time of year when the RH is much lower. It is very dry in the building during the fall/winter months and extremely humid in the spring/summer as we seem to get both extremes (dry, cold winters and humid, hot summers) here in the midwest.

I really don't have any outside space (except the rooftop) as our building has a zero lot line besides a 10ft. strip along the back in the alley. I could stack along the side of the building but anything I put outside here would be easy pickings for someone with a pickup and sticky fingers.

Unfortunately there is not much I can do to insulate between the floors without losing the aesthetic of the beautiful 2"X14" douglas fir joists 12" O.C. They have been sandblasted and are really impressive. It is hard to tell from the pic I posted but they really make the space what it is. Eventually, we will pour lightweight concrete or gypcrete over the subfloor up on the third floor which should seal wall to wall and reduce upward airflow. We did put down an inch of spray foam over the existing modified bitumen when we had a new roof installed last summer. Heat tends to stay in the building, it just rises to the third floor.

 

[Brick (ware)House]

Don't know why, but I just got curious about the Missouri laws... anyway it seems you folks are dealing with a few pests there -

http://www.dontmovefirewood.org/the-problem/state-state-information/missouri.html

For all our sakes, please don't spread these pests. As much as I like having lots of wood, I rather like the forests too.

Looks like I will be making a call to the MU Extension to get their take on this. FWIW, I would be transporting the wood from a county not under quarantine into an urban area that already indicates infestation with the EAB. In addition to not wanting to spread woodborne pests to any local trees, I have over 40,000 board feet of doug fir timbers (not counting 13,000sq. ft. of subflooring and 9,000sq. ft. of T&G hardwood flooring) in the building. It would be extremely foolish of me to risk bringing anything inside that could potentially harm my property. There is mention of "untreated firewood" in their bulletins so I wonder if there is a pesticide which can be used to spray my stacks? I appreciate you alerting me to the issue.

 

[Brick (ware)House]

3600 sqare feet with 12 foot ceilings sounds like an awful lot of volume to heat with one stove. You might consider getting two stoves, depending on how warm you like to keep your place. I hope it works out though, Good luck!

Teut - Agreed. We very well may find that it is necessary to run the furnaces in the background to keep temps at a comfortable level. Last year we had rather large heating bills without really being comfortable. I am hopeful the stove will contribute enough to make the place cozy without breaking the bank. Also, NG prices are low right now and I worry that if they were to go back up that the place would be prohibitively expensive to keep warm so the stove is a hedge against future NG price increases. Coupled with our investment in solar panels to offset the cost of A/C in the summer, I am hopeful that we will be able to enjoy the building no matter what energy prices do in the future.

 

[Brick (ware)House]

One awesome loft you got going there! Do you own all 3 floors? I'm wondering of you can leverage the ducting to move heat around?

Please take lots of pics during install!

Two words, Refrigerator Dolly! and don't take it off the pallet until you are ready to get it on the hearth. You are might be able to use a motorcycle jack to get it lifted up to the height of the hearth to get in onto the hearth, or a long ramp. This is a 700lb stove!! You will need and should recruit some of the Kansas Chiefs and get the middle linemen to come help you!!

Hippie - We do own the entire building. The first floor is used for parties, wedding receptions and gallery showings. We live on the second floor and the third floor is raw workspace and storage. The rooftop is for drinking adult beverages and watching the beautiful sunsets on the western skyline looking out across the Kaw River Valley.

It should be a fun time moving that big beast around in here. Given the original use of the structure we will have an easier time than most people. I'm thinking we may be able to hoist it into place using B&T off of the exposed ceiling joists. Or, as you suggest, dolly the stove, build a ramp and push it up onto the hearth with my brother's JD 332! I am sure the Chiefs linemen could put it in place but we don't want to risk injury with two BIG games coming up against the Peyton Ponies!

 

[Slow1]

I really don't have any outside space (except the rooftop) as our building has a zero lot line besides a 10ft. strip along the back in the alley. I could stack along the side of the building but anything I put outside here would be easy pickings for someone with a pickup and sticky fingers.

Now if that freight elevator ran all the way to the roof you would be all set eh? ha!

 

[Oldhippie]

Hippie - We do own the entire building. The first floor is used for parties, wedding receptions and gallery showings. We live on the second floor and the third floor is raw workspace and storage. The rooftop is for drinking adult beverages and watching the beautiful sunsets on the western skyline looking out across the Kaw River Valley.

It should be a fun time moving that big beast around in here. Given the original use of the structure we will have an easier time than most people. I'm thinking we may be able to hoist it into place using B&T off of the exposed ceiling joists. Or, as you suggest, dolly the stove, build a ramp and push it up onto the hearth with my brother's JD 332! I am sure the Chiefs linemen could put it in place but we don't want to risk injury with two BIG games coming up against the Peyton Ponies!

Sounds nice. The PH will have it's work cut out for it, with that size, and those windows.

Wife and I enjoyed a long Red-Sox week-end there a couple years ago. Nice area!

 

[Brick (ware)House]

Chimney liner is in and worked on the hearth all weekend. Still need to grout the marble and brick face and let the concrete up top cure out. PH arrives Thursday or Friday so hopefully will be up and burning by this time next week!

 

[Brick (ware)House]

Stove may not arrive until Monday so I might not get the install done this weekend! I do have shipping confirmation so at least I know it's on the way. Was able to get the chimney buttoned up topside this afternoon. Flat roof makes it easy to get up there and work.

 

[BrotherBart]

The Rock is on the way!

 

[alforit]

Stove may not arrive until Monday so I might not get the install done this weekend! I do have shipping confirmation so at least I know it's on the way. Was able to get the chimney buttoned up topside this afternoon. Flat roof makes it easy to get up there and work.

Good to hear !

 

[wenger7446]

Do you have any updated on this?