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Woodstock Progress Hybrid, downstairs stove, upstairs heating

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by ClanCameron, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    I’m new to the forum, joining it since I’m in the market for a woodstove and haven’t burned since the mid 1980s before the EPA specs. I've got a question on how well all you Woodstock Progress Hybrid owners think the PH will be able to send heat to my upstairs since the stove is primarily a radiant (vs. convection) heater. We love the look and forum feedback on the PH, have narrowed down our stove selection to it and Lopi Cape Cod hybrids, but want to make sure our primary upstairs need is taken care of. You’re a passionate bunch and I look forward to your replies!

    So here's the deal – we live in a round Deltec home, two living levels, 1200' each plus 1200’ basement with a permanent wood foundation which makes for a toasty and dry workshop and utility space.

    We're building a 16'x16' one story room off the existing main floor living room. The new room will have a 5-6' doorway to the main floor and will house the stove. We'll enjoy the fire in the new room, but be piping as much of the heat upstairs to the cold bedrooms as we can. The stairway to the upstairs is on the other side of the house from where the stove will be located. (Why the hvac to the second story isn't right is a story I don't want to get into here).

    The vaulted ceiling of the new room will be ducted with a series of vented channels, starting above the stove and leading to the second floor bedroom. The duct run will be about 15’ and a duct fan at the bedroom end will pull the warm air into the second floor. Our passive HVAC return will take care of circulating it from there - all air upstairs flows back to the main floor and basement.

    So the question is – will the PH send enough hot air up fast enough to my ducting channel for the second floor to be the recipient of much needed heat, and not have an even worse heat differential between the two floors since the gas furnace thermostat is on the main floor?

    We're in southern Minnesota (Minnesnowta), new construction, foam insulation, double paned in house/triple paned in new room. Deltec truss design narrows at center and we cannot exit stove pipe straight up through central location on any floor, which is dictating stove location. 5-6' doorway size is flexible - room is still under construction. Can also put fan at new room door header circulating out, or fan at floor pushing colder air in, whichever will warm air around main floor best.

    We've ten cords of wood we're wanting to light up - we're on a 5 acre wood lot and wood is nearby off property too.

    Gas here is LP at $1.76/gal and we burn through that pretty fast in a cold Minnesota minute...errrhh, winter. Have triple heat system - airsource heat pump, plenum electric at reduced rate, but the kicker is the LP as our last line of defense. Wanting a stove we can share and not keep to ourselves upstairs, if possible. It only takes money...

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  2. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    I don't know...you're getting close to 2700 sq.ft.
    Some say since the soapstone gives off a softer heat and temp output does seem to follow that I don't know if that is the best pick.
    Sure is a pretty stove and a great company from what I read hear though.

    For big heat I would think a big straight up tube burner might be a better choice?
    I just don't see you benefiting from a cat stove unless you have super insulation and great windows and not to many of them.
    But that's just me..hang on to your seat..you will get some great responses from the folks here!
    Whatever you do go big..you can always solve that prob by opening windows and doors..lol.
  3. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Welcome. Those Deltec homes look pretty cool.

    Your problem, as you know, is going to be circulating the heat throughout your house. This is really a separate issue from the "which stove" issue. At nearly 2,700 square-feet you are going to need some firepower. Where are you located? How's your insulation?

    The Progress certainly has firepower. It is a big "tube burner" (but actually doesn't use tubes which is a good thing IMO) with a cat. You won't find too many stoves that will kick out more raw heat when you want it to. It can also be turned down pretty low when you want.

    Anyway, back to your main issue. I would not put a stove in a 16X16 addition with a 5-6' door to the entire space I want to heat. Can you find a way to situate the stove in main part of the house? I think if you could you would be much, much happier. That stove room is going to be HOT if you are going to get any significant heat through the rest of the house.

    If you are dead set on placing the stove in the addition, you may see a small benefit with the Cape Cod. There aren't many reports on this stove yet, so it's hard to vouch for it. But, it is a convective stove that will send a larger portion of it's heat output in the form of hot air. This wil help (a little) in moving your heat through ducts and out the smallish doorway. It probably won't help enough to be a deal breaker either way, though. If you prefer the Progress, it will work great for you.

    The other option, if you really have to put it in the addition, would be to go for a smaller (probably cat) stove that will be a little gentler in the stove room and just accept the fact that you will not be heating your entire house with it.

    Can you make the door from the addition bigger? I think doubling the width would make a HUGE difference.
  4. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Welcome to the forum mcameron.

    We intended to buy a Progress but had to change our minds. Not because we did not like the stove because it is a beauty. It is just that we put a lot of dollars into insulation and the Fireview can roast us out pretty well if we're not careful. Imagine what the Progress would do! The Progress really throws a lot more heat than the Fireview and that is most noticeable in the front of the stove where it really heats up. I am still amazed with this stove and got to talk at length with the owner of Woodstock plus several of the workers there. And naturally we got to see the Progress in action. We had seen this stove when it was in R & D and were impressed even then. I would have no doubt but that it would work for you but won't comment on your ducting.

    As for the company, you won't find a better company and their customer service is second to none. Don't forget that fantastic guarantee they give you. 6 month trial?!! Now I'll be quiet and let the owners of the Progress chime in here.
    raybonz likes this.
  5. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    Good point on the stove room being only 16x16...256sq.ft.
    Mines 16x27 and I would not want it smaller with the king.

    It will get hot in there with a big stove if not a cat stove...or some super circulation.
  6. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Waulie, we're in southern Minnesota, 2x6 construction, foam insulation, big double paned in house/big triple paned in new room, will post pictures soon. Deltec truss design narrows at center and we cannot exit stove pipe straight up through central location on any floor, which is dictating stove location. 5-6' doorway size can go to 10' - room is still under construction. Can also put fan at new room door header circulating out, or fan at floor pushing colder air in, whichever will warm air around main floor best, but of course the issue is getting it upstairs. We thought about putting a stove upstairs, but it would be a 'private' bedroom stove not a family room 'sharing' stove which we'd prefer.
  7. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    maybe a gas fireplace up stairs..some of those are pretty cool or should I say pretty hot..lol.
    I live in a total electric house or I would have one in the bedroom just to look at..but the best heater in the world is laying right next to me.
    mcameron likes this.
  8. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    thanks for that - we've ten cords of wood w're wanting to light up - we're on a 5 acre wood lot and wood is nearby off property too. Gas here is LP at $1.76/gal and we burn through that pretty fast in a cold Minnesota minute...errrhh, winter. Have triple heat system - airsource heat pump, plenum electric at reduced rate, but the kicker is the LP as our last line of defense.
  9. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    Yeah I have a 27 year old heat pump that seems to work good but I hardy ever use it. Then there is the forced hot air toaster in the basement that never comes on unless we are way more then a day and it's to cold for the heat pump.
  10. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, I've seen the Deltec plans and you're right about it limiting placement. I think it you can open that doorway it will help a lot. In addition, you could consider some registers in the common wall down low, but it's hard to say if they'd help much. You're going to be pulling air from the ceiling, so make up air is going to be drawn into the stove room regardless. The question is how much heat is going to also make it out into the main floor. If you "push" more air into the stove room than the upstairs ducting will take, it will force it out into the main floor. That's a tough system to balance. You might want to consider putting a couple of through wall fans down low pushing into the stove room with variable speed control. I would try to get as many reasonable options as you can for moving air while construction is still under way. That would give you the flexibility to tweak things until you get the right balance.

    I think overall you'll definitely be able to make a nice dent in your heating needs. Plus, it is nice to have fire! Are you going to have the stove face the door in the common wall? The Progress kicks a lot of radiant heat out the front glass and it would be best to "aim" that out IMO. I know your main concern is the upstairs, but I'm concerned about having a brand new room that is too roasting hot to enjoy. Assuming your main level ceiling is not insulated, you'll get a nice "warm floor" benefit to the upstairs as well.

    Also, man I would kill for your LP price!
  11. metalsped

    metalsped Burning Hunk

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    I think I paid $1.63 on my last LP fill. Feel bad for the oil burners
  12. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Man, I think I just paid $2.79 a gallon for LP! Heating oil is actually cheaper around here.
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    LP is over $4/gal here. Consider reversing the plan and blowing cooler air into the stove room to circulate the heat.
  14. greenbrierwv

    greenbrierwv Member

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    i have about 2200 sq ft, two levels, and full basement at about 700 sq ft. the stove is in a sun porch on back (south) of house. I have a 2.5 yr old daughter and her bedroom is upstairs, with the stairs being on the north side of the house, about 20 feet from stove through a standard door way. i run a ceiling fan on low in the main living area. i have taken data on this very situation. her bedroom generally runs about 2 degrees cooler than the downstairs room adjoining the stove room. so if its 70 in the living room, her upstairs bedroom is 68. this has been pretty consistent since i started taking this data. Dont let the "radiant" nature of the soapstone fool you, or others. while it does seem to be a "softer" heat, there is no lack of heat distribution to the other parts of the house, which is really pretty amazing. the stove room runs about 74-75 when the main living area is at 70-71, so the heat is dissipating quite nicely. I had a all cast iron stove (VC Defiant Encore) before this and it would burn you out of the stove room quickly, and really not do a whole lot more heating to main living space.

    The PH is far superior to that cast iron stove i was running before and uses noticeably less wood. I can easily get 14-16 hrs on a load (most of the time i reload at 12hr mark) when i was loading the Encore three times a day. I LOVE this stove!!

    Jeremy
    WV Mtns
    rideau likes this.
  15. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Thx for the tip on stove placement. Not to rub it in, but in September I filled my 500 gal tank at, wait for it, $1.36.
  16. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Your config is similar to mine and that's sure helpful. My upstairs/downstairs differential is about 4 degrees, and I keep the house between 71-72. The house'll be at least 6 degrees warmer than that with a stove, so the upstairs will be about right. What you're saying about the cast throwing a lot, I've seen other posting on that too. One line of thinking is to go with the Progress while we're still in heating season... and if it really doesn't do the job, go with the return policy. Ripping the stove out might rip my heart out tho. I'll post some pictures soon of the Deltec.
  17. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    That's a great point. Why not get the Progress and try it out. If it doesn't work out, you're only out some time and muscle. I'm also 99.99% sure if you get one, you'll keep it. ;)
  18. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Thought a bit about what you're saying - I'll talk to my gas services guy who does wood hearth also. See what he thinks about 'just getting it done' upstairs with a small gas stove....and also a much smaller wood stove in the addition. It'll cost (at least) a little more, but a little more is a lot better than a lot of nothing or making the whole situation worse. We've got time to sort through this before things get too buttoned up in the addition. It's -5 (yes minus) out this morning, but the air is still and sun wants to break through, so we're going snowshoeing, gotta go.
  19. Hilltop

    Hilltop New Member

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    my 2 cents....installed new PH last week of November. 2300 sq ft two story colonial built in 2006. We're up on a hill, face west and are exposed to some pretty significant winds at times (40-50mph +).

    I have yet to get our new PH up over 500 stove top temp, and there have been a couple nights we've had to open windows in our upstairs bedrooms it is so warm! No doubt our open floor plan and 2 story foyer help distribute the heat.
    mcameron likes this.
  20. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Our MN temps today are 8 degrees to your 35, so I'll be considering that seasonally. Wondering what temp you consider an average cold temp. I'm previously from the east coast (NY/PA) and cold was under 20; now cold for me is below zero.

    And, so noted on your 2 story foyer - however, how far is your stove in relation to that, and are you doing any air movement (fans)? I'm splicing hairs at this point because as noted early-on in my post-replies, air movement for me is going to be a big factor, regardless of which firebox I put in. It's gonna be fun - but hoping to get it right the first try.
  21. Hilltop

    Hilltop New Member

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    It frequently dips into low teens here at night. Occasionally down to single digits. Pretty rare for us to get below zero. Our real struggle is the wind. We have decent quality Anderson windows, but at 40+ mph I think almost any west facing window will leak a little under that kind of pressure.

    Stove is in back corner of house. 2 story foyer is front center of house (approx 25 feet away). I have no fans set up for air movement. It's amazing how we can sit on the stairs and feel the cool air rushing down (due to the warm air flying up to top of two story foyer/ L-shaped staircase). Every house is different, and results are sure to vary. Good luck with your decision and install. No matter what you pick, there is no substitute for wood heat in my opinion...
  22. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Love my PH...puts out lots of heat when I need it, very moderate heat when I need less. Heats a large home comfortably and easily in a cold climate.

    If cost isn't a consideration, nothing stopping you from doing both. Could look at a Woodstock Franklin for your bedroom, or a small woodstock cottage gas stove; or look at the Renaissance Rumford Fireplace from the stove division of ICC. If I were building now, I'd put those in the library and a few of the bedrooms...love a wood fire, and these are not only beautiful, they are efficient heaters and don't let heat escape up the chimney, and are clean burning. They have essentially a lifetime warranty. They are heavy, at 600 pounds. If you have any interest in having a fire in the bedroom as well as a wood stove downstairs, take a look.
    mcameron likes this.
  23. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Just a follow-up posting. We're making "progress" on our add-on..and near ready to get our Progress stove. They say a new sale is coming this week....we shall see what's new! We went with an 8 foot opening to the main house, and are putting the ceiling duct work and fan in now. Outside temps have been bouncing around all winter - below zero, then up in the 30's like today. Heading back to seasonable in the tens this week, then bumping up again. Hope to get the siding on before the next wind-driven snow flies. We've been enjoying everyone's escapades on 'the hearth'. Great community. PS - MN landscape is pretty bleak right now... our place rocks once the trees leaf out. We'll be putting on a wrap-around deck to the new room addition once the spring rains subside.

    Attached Files:

    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  24. Oldhippie

    Oldhippie Minister of Fire

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    Great pics, beautiful home. It deserves a PH
  25. ClanCameron

    ClanCameron New Member

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    Thanks Steve - love your by-line. We gotta live!

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