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Woodstock Progress Hybrid - Flue setup versus user experience

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by fire_man, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I am trying to determine if user experience with the Progress is correlated (or not) with particiular flue setup. I'm hoping only Progress owners will post their setup with the format I started. The important points:

    FLUE: Interior or Exterior/lined or unlined/size/height/insulated/Horizontal sections
    STOVE: Backpuffing/cat stalls/smoke out stack/smoke spillage on reload or NO ISSUES


    Fire_man

    Flue: 15 feet of uninsulated 6" SS single wall thru an exterior chimney. 10" Horizontal section.
    Stove: Some backpuffing, smoke spillage with open door when outside is about 50 degrees. Cat tends to stall when outside temps are above 50, burns much better when below 30 degrees out.
    I recently double wrapped it and am waiting to burn more.

    Rideau

    Flue 30 feet of double wall pipe
    Stove: No Issues

    Waulie

    Flue 25 feet of 7X7 Clay Liner thru center of house
    Stove No Issues

    Chipsoflyin

    Flue 25 feet of 12X12 interior with x2 45's and over 4" of Horizontal sections
    Stove Backpuffing, Cat stalls, sees smoke out of stack.

    HollowHill

    Flue 24 feet of single wall interior insulated, 1.5 ft double wall Horizontal to "T"
    Stove Backpuffing, cat stalls, smoke out stack, slight smoke spillage on reload

    Flamestead

    Flue: 32' single-wall, wrapped in insulation, interior chimney. 1.5 ft horizontal single wall to T.
    Stove: Backpuffed only during learning curve, now OK. Cat not lighting off at stovetop 325, smoke clears when cat lights off.

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  2. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    flue: 1.5 ft double wall horizontal to tee, ~24 ft single wall vertical pipe inside an interior masonry chimney (12 x 18 clay lined, I think), wrapped in an insulated "blanket"
    stove: backpuffing, cat stalls (I will then see smoke out stack), occasional slight smoke spillage on reload
  3. 3fordasho

    3fordasho Feeling the Heat

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    South Central Minnesota
    Flue: Double wall SS straight out the back through the wall to Tee, 6" Class A (supervent) up 18' inside insulated chase.

    Stove: Have not noticed backpuffing with the PH, the fireview will do it and will release smoke at that time. Smoke spillage no different than with fireview- will do it in warmer temps and if I don't open the draft before opening door. My only complaint is I get a faint smoke smell in the house (nothing to do with smoke spillage out the door) when the PH is damped way down for a long overnight burn, it's less or not there when the draft is opened slightly. I have replaced the door gasket. So far burn times about the same as the fireview - BUT I am still using wood sized for the fireview and have not stuffed the PH full yet and with my hesitation to close the draft all the way (smoke smell) I really don't have a feel for the burn time potential.
  4. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Hey Tony. You can add my dads setup to this list. He has about 25 feet of 7X11 clay lined interior chimney and has reported no issues. Keep in mind, after 30+ years of burning smoke dragons, he tends to be hesitant to really damp that puppy down. I told him to line it, but WS told him to try it first. It doesn't sound like he'll be lining it.
  5. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Also, I do get smoke spillage in warmer temps (I just don't open the door when there is wood smoking). I have also had the occasional cat stall last spring and this fall, but I think I figured out draft setting to avoid this now.
  6. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Well, so far I am not too surprised (with one exception - HollowHill) at the flue setup vs user experience. Those with tall insulated or tall interior chimneys have fewer or no issues. HollowHill has a great sounding setup, but has experienced some backpuffing and cat stalls. We'll have to dig into that one later.

    I think Waulie's dad gets away with the kind of big 7X11 liner because it's so tall (25') and is inside.

    Chipsoflyin has a tall interior chimney, but is hampered by a long horizontal pipe, two 45's and is oversized at 12x12. He would probably benefit from a liner up that 12x12.

    Mine is very short and was uninsulated in an exterior chimney - a very bad combination.

    Thanks for all the posts, hopefully we'll get some more and can make sense out of this.:)
  7. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Yeah really. That thing should draft like a hoover! A couple times I've had issues have turned out to be the screen. This is something both my dad and I are constantly fighting. People have posted that wet wood is the issue with the screen, but there is no wet wood here and we are both having to clean to screen every couple weeks. We're burning 99% ash and maybe that's the issue?
  8. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I hear WS may be looking at increasing the screen's hole size. I went the whole winter last year and only had to clean that screen 3 times, but I've had to clean it after each of the last two shoulder season fires. Both times I burned cottonwood, once when it was damp from the rain, the second time it was dry. But both those shoulder season fires never got the stove very hot, and the screen seemed to clog with wood fibers rather than ash. Waulie makes a good point - we need to separate a marginal flue setup from a clogged screen - they can both cause the same symptoms.

    I agree - Hollow's flue should draft like a hoover!!
  9. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    I asked WS a few weeks ago, and they said they were almost done with a screen redesign. The person I asked didn't sound positive but thought it would be the same mesh, just much easier to take in and out for cleaning.
  10. chipsoflyin

    chipsoflyin Member

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    I would like to line my chimney. I dont think is would be possible to turn the corner going from the 12 by 12 into the 6 inch horizontal. I dont think there would be enough sweep. If anyone has done this, I would like to hear how. I better check them screens also
  11. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Chipsoflying, How tight is your home? Under troubleshooting, Woodstock suggests that one of the causes of back puffing can be a tight home, and recommends in that instance the installation of an outside air source.

    It also suggests that if you are in a high wind area you may need a wind cap, but since you only have this problem over 50 degrees out (?) probably doesn't apply. Do you burn much when it is over 50 out?

    My screen clogs when there is a lot of air currant in the firebox and ash flies around...early on in learning curve with this stove had a few backpuffing incidents, and those caused clogging. Woodstock is just getting the housing for the new screen manufactured, then we'll have our new, improved screens. At the very least, they won't fall out or be a problem to clean. I don't know what other improvements may have been made....I also had no wet wood, so that wasn't a factor with my wood.

    HollowHill has had some marginal wood, and has had problems with her cat, I know she is awaiting a new cat from Woodstock. I believe she told me they have improved the cat....don't know if we'll all get new ones.....
  12. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    OK, you guys convinced me to check my screen. I've been giving it a visual with it installed and it seemed OK to me. I had cleaned it last spring after done burning for the season. But, I took it out this morning to give it a closer inspection. It was fine, hardly any build up at all, and no clogging.

    My wood is 18 months seasoned this year, so I am interested to see how that will play out. Currently, I can't get the cat to light off, so I'm waiting for the new cat before attempting any more burns.
  13. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Hollow - how High are you getting the stove temperature immediately before engaging the cat - and exactly where are you measuring it?

    These are Iconel screen pictures after burning one shoulder season fire last night (Freshly cleaned screen, loaded 1/3 full with well seasoned chunks, firebox never got above 250F as measured on front cast trim, stove top peaked at 400F). The screens are not too bad yet , but a couple of more coolish fires and it might get worse.

    It seems like burning cooler firebox temps possibly leads to quicker clogging. The stove has to heat up to burn the fly ash off the screen. This screen hardly ever clogged last year when I burned hot - but started clogging when I burned shoulder season fires late in the season. I thought it was damp wood that caused it, now I think the stove just needs to be burned hotter.


    Hey, I think I hijacked my own thread, this thread was supposed to be about flue setups! :confused:




    2012__3.JPG 2012__6.JPG
  14. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    fire_man, I'm getting the stove top temp to anywhere from 250 - 340. This is measured on the stove top above the cat (the hottest place on the stove top according to IR therm). I'm also delaying turning down the air until 3 - 5 minutes after engaging.
  15. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    HH: If you are engaging above 300 stovetop with a stove more than 1/2 full of wood, I would expect it to light off. Are you choking it back to completely closed, or are you leaving the air slightly open? I noticed I can't always choke it back to closed immediately after engaging - but it sounds like you wait a few minutes.

    Are you saying it's not lighting off because the stovetop temp drops and you get black smoke out the stack?
  16. chipsoflyin

    chipsoflyin Member

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    Rideau, my house has older pella windows, most are in good shape, however a couple have bad latches, hence a little bit of draft, other than that it is 2x6 construction with what I'll assume is decent insulation. I don't think draft is my problem. Even when it's above 50 I have no problems with smoke spillage. Call me crazy but I went and plugged the small hole in front and with the small nightly fires I haven't had any back puffing problems yet this year.

    HH, Try waiting 10-15 minutes prior to turning down the air, I run my stove top temp measured at the base of the collar upto 250 prior to engaging the cat and leave the air wide open until it reads 300 before cutting the air back. I've noticed with my cat probe that you have to get it that hot or it won't engage. ( 550 no,600 no,650 no,700 yes). It seems that when you engage the cat the upper rear smoke path has to heat up prior to the cat lighting off.
  17. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Hollow, isn't that about what your wood was last year?
  18. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    Last year I had 2 cords of 2 yr seasoned wood and then used 1.5 cord of 8 month seasoned wood. This year I have what's left from that 8 month seasoned wood, which will now be 15 month seasoned wood as of October.
  19. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Sounds good Hollow. Do you have enough of that for the whole winter?
  20. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    I am waiting to lower the air and I don't choke it completely, I always leave it a bit open to avoid backpuffing. The stove top temp remains stable, and the smoke I get out the stack is white, not dark, which does confuse me. In reading the manual, it says dark smoke when the cat doesn't engage. So, I'm not positive what's going on. I do have secondaries going on, so maybe they help with the dark smoke???
  21. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    I have 5.5 cords of that left (stacked 6/11), then I have 6 cords (stacked 11/11). Hoping that will be enough for this year. Then, I'm getting 12 cords now for next year.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  22. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    HH: It sounds like your saying your cat does not light off not because of dark smoke but because the temp does not rise? That's strange. Makes me wonder if your thermometer is broken! If you get wispy white smoke, your cat is active and has to be getting hot. This is strange...... Do you have ghosts in that old drafty house?
  23. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    I didn't know you'd get wispy white smoke ever with the cat active. It does occur to me that maybe what is happening is that the stove is just functioning the way it is designed to. It is supposed to switch back and forth from cat to secondary burn automatically at the optimum time for each type of burn. If you are getting white smoke, perhaps you are getting secondary burning?? Have you talked with Woodstock about that possibility? I have to say, I don't get white smoke ever...I have nothing you can see up there...you wouldn't know there was a fire lit in the house from looking at my chimney.
  24. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    Well, fire_man, there is Cap'n Benjamin. Kid you not, he hung/hanged himself in the barn. Veteran of War of 1812. His tombstone used to cover one of the old chimneys. Family legend blames him for a lot of the weird stuff that goes on around here, more or less incessantly.

    The smoke volume varied with the amount of wood. With more wood, it was not wispy, more a solid column. When the cat has worked in the past, there was no smoke at all. And the thermometer is registering from 100 to 300 or so, although the cat, of the feline variety, has been playing with it, rather violently.
  25. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    So that is why we got that creepy feelings when we stopped for a visit!!! :eek:

    No, that is not true at all. We may stop again some time.

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