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Woodstock stove sale

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Todd, Jan 19, 2006.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Just got off the phone with Woodstock Soapstone. Very nice person answered all my questions. (and I had lots). He even put in some overtime talking to me. They just started a sale today. Taking $200 of price and only $100 for shipping anywhere in the USA. After talking with them I am seriously thinking of buying the fireview and selling my Homestead. My Homestead is a fine unit but a little on the small side, and I want longer burns. I never burned a cat stove and want to try it out. I know there is alot of debate about cat vs non cat and the best thing for me is to see for myself.

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  2. Herb

    Herb New Member

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    don't be in too big of a rush -- Woodstock's $300 off deal is permanent, at least for the last 4 years that I've been getting their mailings!
  3. Sandor

    Sandor Minister of Fire

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    I got the same deal when I bought in August.

    That being said, this stove is designed to last generations, not decades.

    The cat does make a difference. Just don't expect it to burn wood like it was nuclear fuel.
  4. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Well I got the ok from the boss (wife). She really loves the look of the Fireview. Hope it's not to hard to operate for her. She has little patients and tends to get frustrated with the Homestead.

    Woodstock has about a 4 week wait on delivery. They said earlier this year the wait was up to 8 weeks. I think the mild winter has slowed the sales down a bit.
  5. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    I have a new Fireview this year - it is worth every penny.

    I was a little skeptical of soapstone as being an oddball product sold more for looks, until I read the reviews on this site. (along with Vermont Castings and Jotul) Hearing people with VC stoves shelling out hundreds for warped parts, repairs and QC problems turned me away just before I ended up buying one. Jotul sounded a lot more solid, but a decent number of people seem to have minor difficulties with drafting/soot formation. (probably due to poor wood/chimney design, but I didn't see those comments much on Woodstock) So, the reviews here sold me on Woodstock, and it absolutely lives up to the claims made.

    My wife and I both work and are typically gone 10-11 hours a day. If we fill it when we leave, there are plenty of coals when we get home - I can't remember the last time I used a match this winter. The catalyst also works great. It is not rocket science, and it is not as finnicky as some would have you believe. I have cleaned the catalyst twice this winter, but have only found the slightest traces of dust. and could probably lower that frequency. It is also easy to access in this model by lifting up the top. The glass also stays very clean - we have never had a trace of black soot. The only thing that might be nice to have is an ash pan, but then again, the claim of once a week ash emptying is also true, so it's not a big deal. And they do make models with an ash pan, but you sacrifice firebox capacity. So, we went with the Fireview instead.

    I should add that while our house was being built, we rented in a place with a horrible Home Depot stove - it was junk in comparison. Got really hot fast, and got really cold fast, and soot was always on the glass. It was a constant pain starting fires in it.

    At the time we bought, the discount was more like $300-$350, but shipping would have been $200-$250. So, we drove up to NH and spent a fall weekend camping at Ascutney State Park (VT) right down the road. Beautiful area to take a weekend trip to if you are within a few hours.

    Finally, I have been tracking our oil usage the past three years, along with this current year for comparison. We got an oil delivery today to top off the tank - so far we have saved about 330 gallons of oil compared to where we would be on average over the past three seasons. That is worth over $700 this year assuming you have a contract. (more if you don't) We still have the same minimum thermostat setpoints as prior years, but are often warmer than the minimums due to the stove running, so we are actually more comfortable on top of the savings.

    -Colin
  6. rmcfall

    rmcfall Feeling the Heat

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    The Fireview ad says it will heat from 900-1600 sq. feet and burn for 10-12 hours, whereas the Homestead ad says it heats up to 1800sq. feets and burns up to 8 hours. Will the Fireview really burn for that long? I wonder how the sq. feet of heated area really compares between the two stoves?



  7. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    NY Soapstone,

    What kind of chimney and exhaust setup do you have? The only thing that worries me about these stoves is the draft. I have heard Cat stoves are very draft sensitive.

    My chimney is a 22' outside type with a 5.5" s/s liner, and I have 2 /90 deg bends in the stove pipe. Woodstock says if my current stove drafts well (it does) then the Fireview will to. Also said that the draft issue is a myth due to the older cat retrofits. I guess they could be saying that just to sell the stove, but they back it up with a 6 month money back guarantee.
  8. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    [quote author="rmcfall" date="1137739455"]The Fireview ad says it will heat from 900-1600 sq. feet and burn for 10-12 hours, whereas the Homestead ad says it heats up to 1800sq. feets and burns up to 8 hours. Will the Fireview really burn for that long? I wonder how the sq. feet of heated area really compares between the two stoves?


    I wondered about that to and they told me those numbers were conducted by a independent lab. The sq ft is a conservative number and depends on insulation and other factors. People are heating more than 2000sq ft with this stove.

    They said the burn times are with good hardwood, and last til there is a bed of coals able to restart by throwing a couple splits on top not from light off to the last burning coal like other manufactures.

    I haven't seen a bad review yet on this stove.
  9. TCintheOzarks

    TCintheOzarks Member

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    Todd
    I have no problem with the draft on my Fireview. Chimney is 14 ft. It is in the center of the house.Also you will not be told anything that is not true by Woodstock.
    The Fireview is a great stove very easy to operate and heats great with low wood usage.
  10. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    I think they are right.

    Behind the stove, we have a 90 degree cleanout tee. Going up to a 9-foot ceiling off the top of that tee, we have two 45 degree elbows to get a 6-inch offset - chimney not quite directly over the stove. Above that, we have a nearly straight class A 6" chimney that goes through second floor, attic, and roof - probably about 15-20'. There is a small offset in the attic to clear the rafters. This is probably a relatively good but not perfect configuration.

    The draft control on the stove ranges from 0 (closed) - 4 (max open). When we are away or sleeping, we leave it around 1. If we are trying to run it near the peak allowable temperatures, we will go up to about 1.5. (this is with the catalyst engaged) Of course this means you can't go 12 hours, but sometimes we burn it hotter like this in the morning and evening when we are around and it is really cold. Beyond those air settings, we would risk overfire - the draft would draw way too much air in. So, the way I see this, there is a lot of room to spare here before you'd have to open your door to overcome poor draft.

    There is of course a bypass mode but we don't find we need to use it that often because the stove stays hot so long. I can see where a catalyst might be more of a pain if you are coming home to a cold stove. You would have to first let the stove warm up before engaging it, which means coming back in 15-30 minutes after you start your fire. If you load the Woodstock before sleeping and before leaving for work and set it to a lower burn rate, you won't have that problem. Similarly, this also means that your chimney is always hot, which will keep a strong draft going, so maybe this is why we never have an issue with it. (although we have let it go cold a few times this winter and never had problems...)

    Friends of ours recently installed the same stove, and they have a fairly long ~18 inch offset that is made with two 45 degree pieces - it actually goes to the side and in front of the stove a bit. Similar chimney beyond that - class A through a second floor chase, through the attic, and out the roof. They are using the exact same air intake settings we are last I talked to them.

    -Colin

    PS - I should add that we are using dry wood!
  11. rmcfall

    rmcfall Feeling the Heat

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    What are the insulative requirements of the hearth for the Fireview?
  12. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    Yes, it will really burn that long, but not if you run it at 650 degrees - you'd need to slow it down to more like 400 degrees surface temperature in my experience to get that kind of burn time. And towards the end, you really see mostly hot coals, but it will still be putting out heat just the same.

    As to the sq. feet question - let me suggest looking at this a different way, because houses and thermostat programs are all very different, and those marketing numbers are just best guesses.

    If this is for an existing home, you can first determine how much heat do you put into your house over a given season by going over your old bills. (gallons of oil, therms of gas, kWh of electricity, etc...)

    Then determine how much wood that equals. You can find a lot of guidelines for this on the web. For example, a cord of mixed hardwood is often considered equal to ~150 gallons of heating oil. This will tell you how many cords of wood you need to burn per winter, and might help put this in perspective. If you're using oil, the comparison is easy - the efficiency in converting oil to heat and wood to heat in a catalytic stove will be close enough. If you're using gas or electric, you need to adjust your calculation a bit more.

    If your answer is 3-4 cords per winter, then the Fireview will be fine even if you are gone during the day and sleep 8 hours. We have gone through about 1.5-2 cords since October using it in this fashion. If your answer is 8-10 cords per winter, I think you will have a hard time burning that much wood unless you are home all day to run it at higher burn rates with more frequent loading, or you have a really really long winter :)

    This is why people often say look at the firebox size as the most important number - the end goal is that you need a device that can combust the volume of wood required to keep you warm over a winter season.

    -Colin
  13. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    ps - just in case you really really want another number on how many square feet you can heat... I can give you some results from when we lost power for an extended period recently.

    Our house was built in 2002. It is about 2850 square feet not counting the basement, which we don't heat. Some things working against us - 2-story ceiling in the living room, 9 foot ceilings on first floor, and about 40 windows - abnormally large amount of glass to lose heat, but we like the view of the woods.

    We were able to hold the house in the upper 60s while it was in the 20s outside, but we were loading the stove a lot more frequently and burning it towards the high end of the allowable temperature range. That night it was going to 9, and I'm sure it would have been a chilly night - fortunately the power came back on!

    Normally, we have our oil baseboard heat come on when the temperature drops below 66 in either of the two main heating zones. Part of the upstairs is on a separate heating zone that is closed off and held at 55, so we normally have only about 2000-2200 SF open to the stove. In this configuration, we are using very little oil to backup the stove - I have been plotting it out this winter and it is not much more than the rate we use oil for our domestic hot water in the summer.

    -Colin
  14. rmcfall

    rmcfall Feeling the Heat

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    Thanks for the replies, NY Soapstone. It sounds like you REALLY enjoy your stove. I have been looking mainly at the Hearthstone stoves, but will have to consider the Woodstock's. I've heard some cat stoves don't have much of a flame display. While this really isn't important, I am just curious how the Fireview performs in this area?
  15. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    Yea, I read the same thing before buying and got worried about it too thinking it would be like a gas log or something... Don't worry about it. It looks like a wood fire :)

    What I suspect people are talking about is if you really damp it down heavily. Once or twice we have gotten it into this really slow burn where we look over and it looks like gases spontaneously ignite above the wood in bursts - it's actually pretty cool looking, and hard to describe. But that is probably because the stove was very hot and the wood was oxygen starved due to the air intake being closed down so much. Under any normal operation, it looks just like a regular fire; if you damp it down, the flames get a somewhat graceful wavy look to them that is pretty neat. In fact, I sort of prefer it over a rapid out of control flame - I see that and think man, that draft is too fast and is sucking too much heat up my chimney.

    Maybe some of the older catalytic stoves were too frequently choked up on draft and people only saw really slow flame patterns, leading to this concern.

    I'll eventually post some pictures of it in action.

    -Colin
  16. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I think I'm just about sold on the Fireview. Pictures of it in action would be nice NY Soapstone. Where is the primary air lever? I looked for it on the 360 deg view on Woodstocks site and all I see is a big lever in the back which I believe is the bypass lever?
  17. Sandor

    Sandor Minister of Fire

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    I thought you were going to wait a couple of years Todd? Hey, go for it!

    The lever in the back is the bypass lever. When you get your stove, check out the mechanics operating the bypass. Looks like it will last forever. Beats tightening the lever on VC Resolute ever 6 weeks with a tiny allen screw.

    The air intake is lever operated next to the bypass damper. No cheesy parts here either.

    Obviously, people are really satisfied with this stove. As I am.
  18. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I thought I was going to wait to, but I have the itch really bad, the wife approves, and I have the money now. I'm going to place my order this morning. Thanks for all the info guys.
  19. Corie

    Corie Minister of Fire

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    SWEET!

    Keep us posted, ordering a new stove is so exciting!!! :)
  20. carpniels

    carpniels Minister of Fire

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    Hi NYsoapstone,

    I almost bought a used fireview but it was $1000 and the baffle was burned out due to overfiring. Woodstockk told me it was 300 ro rebuild the stove and I could not wait until after the winter to do that. Another guy bought it before I could reply.

    Question though: You said you burn it 24/7 but there is no ashpan. How do you clean the ashes out when you have no exterior ashpan?

    Thanks

    Carpniels (also in NY; Rome. NY)
  21. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    I just push the larger surface coals to one side, shovel out, and then push them back. Inevitably, you do pick up a few smaller coals when shoveling it out. You can also get tools to sift coals from ash to help this - I might try one. (Koalkeeper) I always leave enough ash/coals in there to make it easy to restart the next fire. There is an ash holder made by Pilgrim that just happens to line up perfectly with the width and height of the door - that also makes it simpler to clean, and I'd recommend it.

    -Colin
  22. rmcfall

    rmcfall Feeling the Heat

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    I can't find the R values required for under the Woodstock stoves. Anybody know them for the Fireview and Keystone?
  23. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Give Woodstock a call or email them. They have all the answers.
  24. cbrodsky

    cbrodsky Member

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    I was told 24 gauge sheet metal and 1/2" non-combustible material (cement board like hardibacker) over your subfloor, and then you can cover that with a decorative tile if desired. We used 1/4" slate to get it flush with surrounding 3/4" thick wood floor.

    -Colin
  25. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

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    That's because of the catalytic converter in the fireview, vs. the Homestead is a secondary burn. The secondary burn means you can't turn it down as low, else it won't function whereas a cat happens at lower temperatures so can handle lower air settings. It's one of their benefits of a cat. One of the bad things about it, is you have to wait for the stove to come to temp before you can engage the cat whereas with a secondary burn you should wait until your stove is hot before turning it down, but you don't have to. You can turn it down and leave.

    The other issue about extremely low air settings, is it useful. My soapstone insert, for an overnight burn I keep the air setting at half, and wake up to hot coals to restart in the morning and my house dropped in temperature from 72 to around 63-64. So a cat letting me use a slower air setting than normal I wouldn't find useful as my air setting at medium is as low as I want to go. I'd still have to keep the air setting in the middle for an overnight burn with a cat to compensate for how much loss my house has. Don't go by burn times, it's better to have a properly sized unit. One that can put out enough heat for an overnight burn and leave coals in the morning without causing you to freeze to do it. A 10 hour burn, is very little heat per hour. Your house would need to be I think the term is super efficient. In the fall & spring, might be useful to keep the house warm at night, but at those times is the worst draft, usually I have to keep my insert at maximum air just to keep a draft going. Even at max air, in spring & fall my fires can last 10 hours if it's 50 outside. Whereas, in winter when it's 20 outside at max air my fire will be over in 4 hours if I don't slow it down. Outside temperature makes a difference on how quickly or slowly your fire burns and what your air setting needs to be.
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