woodstove or fireplace for this renovation?

[sgc]

Hi!
We are renovating our 1960's typical 4 bedroom 2300 square foot colonial. Part of the renovation will include getting rid of a fireplace with exterior chimney. We live in south jersey, and have 2.5 acres of woods (60% pine, 40% hardwood) and huge trees that keep falling down. Open burn is not allowed, and we often need to clear and burn that wood. Kind of tired of advertising free firewood.
In the renovation, we would like to have an interior flue for either a woodstove or zero clearance fireplace. We will convert from oil to gas, and keep the duct system/fan that can distribute heat. ( we also open the kitchen to the current sunroom and add a masterbedroom - so now 2000 feet on frist level and 1800 on scond level)

We are trying to figure out what we could reasonably expect for heat from a woodstove or zero clearance fireplace, given that it will be mostly pine that is burnt. Would a fireplace/woodstove in the spot that says gas fireplace shown on the drawing help heat more than just that room (especially towards the back of the house where the eating area is?) I'm hoping that the savings on fuel will help offset the cost of doing it. Could a second woodstove/fireplace on the other side of that wall ( in the small front room) help to heat the upstairs with enough vents?

any thoughts are welcome. I grew up in a new england famrhouse with a woodstove, and the heat distribution was determined by doors left open and heavy curtains in front of unsed rooms with doors. Having a house with both an hvac system and woodstove or fireplace just has possibilities for heating ( and self reliance and getting rid of downed trees) that's pretty exciting. Trying to do this right the first time......
Thanks in advance for advice

 

[TheBigIron]

Would you consider an add on wood furnace in the basement and install in existing duct work? Also if possible put a wood stove on the main floor? Just an option, depending on your heat requirements for the upstairs you will have to make sure your duct work is clear to combustibles. Does your duct work go second floor?

 

[sgc]

Never thought about an add on in the basement- I see your point. Existing ductwork does go to the second floor. I was really wondering it would make a big difference if the heat thrown is from a woodstove ( those jotuls are beautiful) vs a zero clearance fireplace, given that it will be mostly pine that is burned, and if we could expect much supplemental heat. And if have a duct system that runs a fan would help with heat distribution. Seem like really general questions. I just didn't want to find out after 3000 dollar investment that we are never burning wood because it's pine and not worth using. ( I know that's all they use up in Maine!) or that we really should have gotten a woodstove instead of fireplace. How many cords in a basement wood furnace can get you through the fairly mild winters of south jersey? Lately we go through 1000 gallons of fuel oil.

 

[JA600L]

If you know you will be burning mostly pine, a catalytic stove will really mellow out the burn characteristics of pine. A regular secondary stove tends to encourage the pine to burn faster due to higher internal temperature.

With my ideal steel you can hardly tell the difference between a full load of pine vs regular hardwoods. I can run the stove at a much lower temperature and the pine releases it's btus much slower.

 

[Isaiah53]

If I am reading your plans correctly and that interior wall is being removed to create a large family room, then I think either a stove or fireplace would do a great job of heating your floor plan. There is nothing wrong with pine other than it is less dense and consumed more quickly, You just use more of it and reload more often. It may be a while before you recover your investment against natural gas heating. I think most of us just enjoy the warmth of wood heat.

 

[sgc]

Yes, you are correct- the interior wall is being removed. I think there are a bunch of not entirely logical reasons that my husband and I want to supplement with wood. I grew up with a vermont castings vigilant for supplemental heat, especially when the power went out. We have tons of free wood that we sometimes have to get others to remove, since we can't open burn it all. We are expanding the total area of the house, and it kills me to think about how our heating bill will increase. Its cozy to have a fire that you can see through glass doors. To me, getting a woodstove represents some off-grid independence, wood-clearing, energy savings, cozy radiant heat and a pretty flame to look at. The downsides are- if we are at least half softwood do we need to get a catalytic ( because this stove or fireplace will be visible from long sightlines and those jotuls with the glass doors sure are purty...) , floorspace (can it recess a bit to be out of traffic lines?) So I'm just trying to verify that it isn't nuts to use up money and floorspace to burn softwoods, and hopefully with a stove that looks like the jotul with glass doors. If I were going to be logical about this we would listen to all the great advice about using a woodstock ideal steel or putting a system in the basement and using the house duct system to distribute heat. But lets face it, renovations aren't just logical but also emotional. I spent 15 years looking at the black doors of the vigilant, instead of my uncles glass nicer doored enameled woodstove- and I want something pleases my aesthetics whether its lit or cold. I've been learning a lot perusing these forums and thank you for answering!

 

[JA600L]

You don't have to get a catalytic stove. I'm simply saying that it will tame down the softwoods and give you more even long burn.
How would you feel about soapstone? Check out the Progress Hybrid by Woodstock.

Soapstone would also help absorb some of that quicker burning pine and release the heat back to you after the fire dies.

Any stove will burn pine ok as long as it is air tight. However, most stoves will give you a very peaked burn and only 8-10 hours to reload on coals. A good hybrid/catalytic stove will offer you 12-24 hours on a load of pine depending on your house and weather.

Things to consider are how long you will be away from the stove. Try to aim for 3 cuft +/-.
Do you want to load once a day, twice a day, 3 times a day, etc...

I know you have a lot of free wood, but you probably don't want to have to carry and handle more wood into the house then you have to.

 

[Isaiah53]

I think your reasoning is fine. If you want independence from a power outage, you will want a stove instead of a fireplace. A fireplace has to have fans to heat well.

It seems that you like the cast iron look (Jotul). Be aware that there are two basic types: the true cast iron box that is joined together with gaskets/ sealant, and a welded steel box that has cast iron sections wrapped around it with an air gap. The F500 and F600 are true cast iron stoves. The F50 and F55 are the steel box wrap. I think the wrap design puts out a more gentle convective heat and is less likely to blast you out of the room, but both will work. Jotul has a good reputation. You could also consider the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 and the Enviro Boston 1700, or the Blaze King Ashford 30 for the cast iron look. The catalytic stoves like Blaze King and Woodstock are great for low fire control like JA600L says, but plenty of people do well without them, and you have a large house. You don/t have to have catalytic stove to enjoy wood heat. At worst you might have to let the fire burn out and then relight.

I will say that 2.5 acres will probably not supply you with enough wood for serious heating long term, so you will probably need to find additional sources of wood.

 

[begreen]

If a wood furnace is out because you want a good looking stove in the family room then supplementing with wood using a large woodstove will probably be most effective. The operative word here is supplement. 3800 sq ft is a large area to heat. If there are high ceilings in any portion that can dramatically increase the cubic footage needing to be heated. Look at 3 cu ft stoves and try to locate it somewhat centrally in the house for most even heat distribution. There are many good looking stoves in cast iron or cast iron jacketed that will heat the area around the stove. For full house heating it probably would take 2 stoves for those colder days in the teens and below.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Hey I'm in central jersey. By the shore. I've got a catalytic stove and as was mentioned above it really makes pine shine. It's amazing. How far south are you, because it gets pretty cold by me. Mild isn't a term I'd generally use.

I would go with a wood stove personally. Fireplaces are nice but a stove really throws heat. I've got a gas furnace as well and with our low gas prices here in NJ I wouldn't suggest an add on wood furnace. Any wood stove is going to take awhile to earn it's break even point if you a gas furnace and halfway decent insulation. So it's more about the nice extra boost of warmth that a wood stove brings to the house. If it prevents the furnace from kicking on some that's even better. I'm guessing it probably will.

If you want to see a Woodstock ideal steel in person I'm right off exit 100 on the Parkway. Burning season it coming to an end though so soon enough you won't get to see it running.

I do 100% suggest a catalytic stove if you have lots of pine and especially if you run two stoves. The long burn times are great because you won't find yourself constantly refilling the stoves. That's awesome because I feel that the less you mess with it the easier it is to have around. You don't want it to be a hassle.

 

[JA600L]

I'm maybe 2 hours from you in Pennsylvania. With our normal climate and that big of a house, you need to think big with Woodstoves. Otherwise, you will be running full bore and loading every few hours when we dip into the negative with windchill.

Also, you don't want to make that room blasting hot just to get heat to the other parts. The duct work typically does no good at moving heat between rooms. If you really want to try it make sure all the duct work is air sealed and very well insulated. If the ducts run through the attic you might as well forget it. That's a lost cause.

The Woodstove will act as a space heater and the heat will spread through open door ways and staircases etc.

So you need a big stove that will fit lots of pine inside, gives you a steady long burn, won't overfire on pine or cook you out of the room, gives you enough heat that you don't need to wake up in the night and reload, and gives you plenty of coals left that you don't have to restart the fire every morning.
That's asking a lot of a woodstove.

Keep that in mind as you proceed. Choose wisely or next year we will be answering questions like "why am I only getting 4 hour burntimes?"