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Woodstove performance degradation over time

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by begreen, Mar 13, 2007.

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  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Recently there has been a lot of discussion about stove performance. This is an interesting article I just ran across. It shows how our stoves can get worse just by using them. The good news is that regular maintenance will keep it running well.

    http://hometown.aol.com/snewsmail/epasays.htm

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  2. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

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    Good post.
  3. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I knew of this post for quite some time its interesting but admiditdly the stove conditions are unknown nobody even hinted any cat combustors were cleaned after years of use
    This is also Important to a word I have used over and over stoves need cleaning to continue proper opperations Note cleaned and maintained stoves suffer little degradation
  4. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Yes , it is a good read. I have posted this before but couldnt find the link to bring back up.

    This is was i was going to answer Elks question on cat performance degrading over time and where the #'s come from.

    With out a lot of detail on why its hard to tell what the issue was , ie: cat , baffle , gaskets , ect..

    *******************************************************************************

    The average emissions rate for the five chimney sweep maintained woodstove systems was 4.8 grams per hour (g/hr). This is very close to the average certification value, 4.2 g/hr, derived in laboratory testing for those stove models. All of these stoves were non-catalytic models. The certification threshold for EPA Phase 2 certified non-catalytic stoves is 7.5 g/hr.

    The average emissions rate for the 11 stoves with unknown maintenance histories was 13.8 g/hr, while the average certification value for those stoves was 3.9 g/hr. These stoves included five catalytic models. The certification threshold for Phase 2 catalytic stoves is 4.1 g/hr.



    Firebox of a Pacific Energy certified woodstove after 11 years of use as a primary heat source. Emissions of particulates from this woodstove, measured in 1998, were below the EPA certification threshold for new non-catalytic woodstove models.


    ***************************************************************************

    Point is that with a EPA clean burning stove we have the tools to burn clean , its just a matter of how well we take care of the clean burning appliance we have.
  5. Harley

    Harley Minister of Fire

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    Very good read, BG. As far as what was "regular maintenance" - it didn't really say, but I'd suspect they were really just talking about general cleaning and gasket replacement.
  6. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Yes and replaceing warped and or bad working parts , replacing cat combusters and cleaning on a regular basis , replacing broken fire bricks and heat blankets and heat baffles , keeping the chimney clean and clear are dont forget about the thread of what happens to clogged chimney caps .........they have to be cleaned too.
  7. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

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    Anyone know what's involved in "maintaining" their secondary burn unit besides the chimney sweeping? Am I supposed to do anything with my secondary burn holes which appear to be getting a sort of "ring of debri" at this point? I'm also thinking fly ash may have gotten in the tubes and should be blown out? I'd also like to blow out the air intake, but I don't know where that is on my insert. I have the Hearthstone Clydesdale, but if anyone has a link to say what's normal maintenance that would be helpful.
  8. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    #1 make sure it is seated and sealed with the air supply , make sure there are no broken , cracker or warped parts and if you have a gasket somewhere from the supply air to the secondary burn chamber~tubes then this needs to be replaced.
  9. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

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    Thanks Roo. In addition I found a site by the EPA that says for maintenance on non-cat stoves
  10. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Theres a good post Rhonemas. Good find.
  11. Sandor

    Sandor Minister of Fire

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    The womens Resolute Acclaim needs to be cleaned as often as my Cat. When either are dirty, they do not burn well in secondary mode.

    For the Resolute, its removing the back panel and cleaning the secondary air passages that are full of ash, and for the Woodstock, its cleaning the fly ash off of the cat.

    I saw Elk post a comment about keeping all stoves clean for good performance. Kudos to him.

    This should be a good post to follow up on, at the end of the burning season.

    Roo, since you are the resident PE expert, it would be great if you detailed a "end of season" Summit cleanup.

    Chimney non-specific.
  12. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    A good idea Sandor , I think it might be best to just picture and note my own clean out when i do it here real soon and take pictures of the burn chamber , chimney and other items as i take it apart.
  13. Sandor

    Sandor Minister of Fire

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    That would be great, since there are alot of new Summit owners on here, and I'm sure your pics would detail what properly burnt stove internals should look like. It may help alot more than just Summit owners.
  14. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    It looks like i have to take back a comment i made in another thread.

    I mentioned to Elk that non cat stoves didnt get ash / fly ash in any secondary burn chambers or holes. After your post it looks like i need to retract my statement for my lack of information to how all secondary burn non cat stoves work and or need cleaning.

    Any information on this model stove as well as others will be good learning information. Not only are we burning cleaner we are also using less wood / fuel.

    ******************** :cheese: *********************
  15. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Roo no explaination necessary If we keep them clean we burn cleaner get more heat and they are easier to control
    It is my belief cleaning should be done after the burn season is completed. Humid air exposed to ash which contains some sulfur combines to form H/2S/04 and will aid rusting and can even attact stainless steel. So remove the ash. I clean the chimney and splinkle baking soda down it. It helps control the flue smell in the summer and the baking soda is a base
    helping reduce acidic reactions in the chimney. This is especially important to coal burners. I also leave an open box of baking soda in the stove, it helps absorb odors
  16. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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    Notice the date - 2001. That article is the "retail" version of their study; the original paper gave names and numbers (stove names and emissions numbers) to compare to the initial tested numbers. It was quite interesting, indeed. If I can find a link to the original, I'll post it.
  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I saw the article during lunchtime and posted it. Thought it was an interesting read. It would be great to get permission to get reprint permission for the full article. I'd love to see the table with the actual stove information.

    Late spring I spend a couple hours detailing the stove. I may burn it a few more times in the summer for a little chill chasing ambience, but I like starting off in the fall knowing that it's going to run at peak efficiency. The same goes for pellet stoves. A little post-season maintenance makes them run better next winter.
  18. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    The article like this i posted came from woodheat.org but i think it was the same short version.
  19. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    yeppers , found it , if it helps track down to full report.
    At the top right heading it reads:
    and it leads to BeGreens posted link.

    http://www.woodheat.org/technology/EPAstovereport.htm

    ***********************************************************************

    It was posted on this thread on page 8 post #119

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/5859/P105/
  20. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    Think this was one of the articles quoted on "myfavoritesite" as proof. They included two tables, 13 and 14, ir something like that. It was low resolution and I couldn't enlarge enough to see, but it seems real specious. You'd definitely need a chemist to explain the content in real world terms.

    If you can get a copy, find a person to explain the data, because it is really technical. Could easily be misinterpreted.
  21. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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  22. Corie

    Corie Minister of Fire

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    Holy smokes. 4:03AM here? Jeez that's early out there.



    You need to fix them der allergies
  23. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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    With a forecast high today of 71, the changes of a 'fix' are slim to none... :-(
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