Woodstove permit

[unit40]

I finally got the new Jotul F3 USA installed and ready for it's break-ins.

Called the local Fire Dept., as I had in the past, to come out, inspect, and approve my installation and sign off on the permit. Used to be $10. They would inspect everything - clearances, connectors, etc. etc. They wouldn't even use my tape measure, they would use their own.

Not any more. I was told to call the Building Inspector. The fee was now $35. He came, took a quick glance, signed off on the permit, and was on his way in less than a minute.

I've got my permit.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I only had to pay for the permit. The inspector wanted to come out when I did the foundation, hit the roof line, and had installed the stove. I called him a number of times over the install for advice. I figure I need to know what he wants to see and he knows if I ask questions I'm going to do it right.

Matt

 

[webbie]

$10......I guess that is why they call them "volunteer" fire depts.....cost more than that to roll the car out the driveway. I think 35 is very reasonable - cheap even, as long as it only entailed one trip you got a bargain.

I'm considering a stove install here - and I think it is the same price $35.....although I have to install a class A chimney, so it might be double that if they have to come out twice.

 

[unit40]

The cost of the permit was no big deal. I guess my point is that the Fire Dept. was very meticulous and safety conscious when inspecting an install, yet the local building inspector didn't really seem to give a hoot.

 

[senorFrog]

This really isn't a hearth question. It boils down to human nature, govt in action and insurance company advocacy groups. They probably lobbied for the change. Looks good on paper, but not in practice.

If you want to feel safe: double check with your installer (assuming it's not you), take some pics and post here or get an inpection when you have the chimney swept (use someone else besides installer).

 

[unit40]

I did the install. This would be my third. I did everything 'by the book', and then some. No expense spared. Makes me wonder what people are possibly getting away with, un-safe installs that are approved without any notice. But then again, there have to be a lot of people out there who have woodstves and no permit whatsoever. I looked at the numbers from the last two that I got back in 2000, and they were #10 and #11.

 

[senorFrog]

There was a thread like this recently. I don't believe that no permit or non-professional install equals unsafe. It's case by case.

 

[unit40]

You're correct, I agree with that. I would have expected a little more from the "Official" than a signature though. OH well.

 

[colsmith]

Our permit was $40 a year and a half ago. The part-time building inspector guy measured a couple things, asked about the hearth materials maybe, was here no more than 5 minutes. I was suprised by his very brief inspection. Still, better than nothing. We had very good installers. Our insurance company sent someone out who measured many things, asked many questions, and then called later to ask a few more. We are only slightly nervous about my father-in-law's self-installed uninspected pellet stove. Where he lives they don't have building inspectors or permits for a pellet stove.

 

[senorFrog]

People are becoming so dependent on the govt, they feel uncomfortable without their blessing. Papers, please. Your papers are not in order.

 

[elkimmeg]

I very rairly take out a ruler to measure things I am very good are estimating distances plus I can count bricks and use comparison tiles for quick estimates
The ruller comes out when I suspect something amiss, only to verify what my eyes tell me.. We also issue an affidivit the installer signs stating it was installed according to code I also gather up the make model and installation parts of the manual and enter it into public records If a liner is involved I require manufacture specs on that liner as well

All of which goes into the folder on that dwelling the next owner only has to call to identify all parts of the installation. When I do the actual inspection it is to confirm what has been discussed

Hearth mpad cnstruction and r-values are also submitted into public records chimney conditions or reports submitted into public record. I have owners the even submitt cleaning bills or reports for public records. Should things happen all public records are available stamped in Makes it easier filing insurance claims

I' tell u you what is priceless the husband doing the installation getting it right and me telling his wife what a nice job he did Priceless. Many would have doubled my $35 fee to hear that being said. Many times I will take a little extra time and explain the break in process even discuss opperations and direct them to this forum if they need more assistance.

It seems the past 3 installations happened because of tax free weekend we had in MA. All three bought the same stove for two reasons. They did not trust Chinese quality castings and liked the idea they supported american made. The second part of their buying decision was to buy the cleanest burning stove available. This suprised me, People are buying into GPH comparisons and backlash is happening concerning made in China.

I feel under paid for the service I provide, worth ever penny of the 35$ charged I get $30


sad but true many cases It turns out that I am the only one that opens up the manual to read what is required only then to confirm what I suspected was wrong. After a while I'm so familiar with the stoves being installed I do not have to read the manual to know what is required I have it committed to memory then manual comes out to re enforce what I suspect is not up to snuff I can look at an installation in 5 minutes not use a ruler and know right away if it is going to pass or not. All the prep work had been done all the discussions hashed out.

I'm there to confirm what has been disussed., You know it works so much easier, when all parties are on the same page to begin with

the most problematic inspections are the ones that are installed prior to the permitting process this eliminates the educational process discussing the up comming installation.

these installations have the highest raste of failure Oh I did'nt know 18" was required in front of loading doors. When did they change the cross-sectional code? That would be 4 years ago
Mister installer are you admitting to me you have not opened the code book in 4 years and you want to argue with me?

 

[Cath]

SenorFrog,
It's not the papers themselves but what they are supposed to represent that is important. For the safety of innocent occupants and the next door neighbors those papers shouldn't be a mere formality.
~Cath

People are becoming so dependent on the govt, they feel uncomfortable without their blessing. Papers, please. Your papers are not in order.

 

[senorFrog]

Problem is that the permit, as we clearly see in many of these theads, is often worth little more than the paper it's printed on.

 

[elkimmeg]

Problem is that the permit, as we clearly see in many of these theads, is often worth little more than the paper it's printed on.

I guess you have not experienced issues when things did not quite go right. The reality of negioating with your insurance company without a permit and a certificate of compliance.

Let me tell you I have seen insurance investigators in my office reviewing the permitting documentations. with out the worthless piecce of paper you are at the mercy of your insurance co as to what they will cover if anything at all. That piece of paper you think is worthless, is your strongest case for getting insurance coverage.

Personally No inspection I have ever done has resulted an un pleasent incident. Either I'm damn lucky or I must be doing my job. I like to think luck has nothing to do with life safety issues

I do take exception about generalizations concerning my profession as being worthless. I believe not only are homes I inspect are safer but much more effecient that any other area in the country. We have more home here that qualfy for energy star compliance than any other town in the state. This did not happen by accident I t happende by dilligent inspections and equally dilligent education of the prospective builders and HVAC installers .. Thee testing firms have told me that these homes are the best they have tested Not one has failed their test many score in he highest categories. And yess I also request the energy star testing results included along with the home and documentation at my office entered stamped into public records..

Many have said I should be a private consultant, where I could really be paid my worth. Hell I willing to bet I have helped you to a safer installation as I have helped many others

Ask Hog how I simplified his HVAC system in his new addition. I made it so simple he was able to DIY

 

[jason1238]

I stopped by the stove shop where I bought my stove to buy a window glass gasket and ended up spending about an hour talking to the owner about some horror stories he's witnessed.

He had a guy call him to come out and take a look at his wood burning fireplace 'cause after a short time burning, his house would begin to smell strongly of smoke. When the stove guy got to the address, he figured he had the wrong place...
The conversation went like this:

Stove Guy: "Hi, I'm supposed to be looking a problem with a fireplace, but I'm pretty sure I have the wrong address."
Homeowner: "No, this is the right place."
Stove Guy: "Then I think I know what the problem is..."
Homeowner: "What do you mean, you haven't even been inside yet!"
Stove Guy: "Come with me..."
At this point, Stove Guy walks Homeowner out into his yard, points toward the house, and says "What do you think is missing here?"

THERE WAS NO CHIMNEY Apparently, the fireplace had been vented into the attic! This home was only a couple years old, if that, and had passed all the "inspections".


I had to pick my jaw up off of the counter.

I'm not knocking the profession of the building inspectors, we all know that Elk (along with many others) has helped many of us and countless others do the job correctly. The point is that you have to educate yourself, so you know what's going on. Too many people are too quick to rely on some clipboard carrying stranger rubber stamping a permit for them and their family's safety. It's a sad state of ignorant bliss that many folks walk around in, and it can be dangerous. Get the permit, have the inspection and sign off for the purpose of insurance, but above all, EDUCATE YOURSELF That way when a guy like Elk shows up and offers advice, you'll know he should be taken seriously.

Stove Guy had countless stories like this, along with a huge photo album showing alot of these death traps. I only wish I had more time to sit and jaw with him.

 

[Highbeam]

I experienced a good inspection this last week on my new stove installation. It was done right and I knew it. I paid my 60$ and the inspecotr showed up opened the manual and checked parts of the installation. Fine tooth comb? No. But he did get out of his truck and spent some time telling me about break in smoke and such. Overall a good experience and my insurance company won't be able to deny my claim because of the stove.

I expected a much bigger hardship in getting the permit. It was VERY easy. Like 5 minutes after logging on to the online permit center I had a permit in hand and an inspection scheduled the day after next. I even told the inspector how painless the process was. He did say that I would have FAILED the inspection had my outside air not been properly installed.

 

[senorFrog]

Well said jason.

Elk, no need for drama and no one is insulting your profession. I simply asserted that having a professional install and an inspection does not equal a safe install. It's been covered many times along with all the pros and cons, including the insurance angle. Thanks for any time you spent answering my newbie questions. I might have thanked you in those threads, but just in case, thank you.

 

[hardwood715]

THERE WAS NO CHIMNEY Apparently, the fireplace had been vented into the attic! This home was only a couple years old, if that, and had passed all the “inspections”.

Damn,,,It's still August and the reading in the posts are getting good already!!