XXV won't fire

[craigsward]

Looking at the wiring diagram on page # 29 of the owners manual, the hopper lid switch has to be a closed contact, the low pressure switch has to be a closed contact, in order for the auger motor to run. Have you confirmed that these both are closed? If you have, IMHO, maybe its time for the dealer's service tech to take a look at it.

how do you test if the hopper switch is a closed contact.

 

[craigsward]

Still....... to all unless all the led's are burned out on the board (or a bad board) the vacuum switch breaks the neutral to the auger and ignitor therefore the led's would be on even if the vacuum switch was bad.
Don't believe me just open the door to you're stove next time you start it up and check the led's Note the auger WILL NOT TURN but the light will be on.
The vac switch has nothing to do with the board it breaks the neutral to the feed and ignitor ONLY as I mentioned. It helps with the troubleshooting here.......
If the led's were lit I would be on the same line of thinking, vac switch not closing for most of the reasons mentioned by others......
So all that and since you did not get the 3 blink "ESP failure" outright, No 4 blink also indicates room sensor circuit seems ok. Not that it is relevent in this case....
I'm saying it's the board or a connection to it.
Call the dealer.....
But humor me here is the comb blower spinning?

That makes sense. And yes the comb blower is spinning.

 

[Lousyweather]

first of all, I DO understand the frustration! Most dealers this time of year are "out straight", and usually take the calls on a first-called, first-served basis, out of fairness.....still, no excuse for a lack of calling abck though!

Combustion motor spinning, and Im assuming, stupidly, I guess that the fan blades are there and attatched to the shaft and the blades are spinning. Bad vac switch? maybe, though rare. Tubing hooked up to the vac switch? Maybe unhooked, cut, or blocked with silicone? maybe. Bad circuitboard? Maybe (tho probs not).....when the dealer comes out, make sure they test draft....if they cant get a reading, its blocked somewhere, as long as the combustion blower is turning. We did have a bad gearbox today, on a new unit, same gearbox as in yours....a counterclockwise one....the motor that ran the gearbox turned, but the output shaft from the gearbox wasnt turning.....pretty odd...took the gearbox apart and found two gears inside werent meshing due to the fact that one axle was slightly bent........does your gearbox motor turn in test mode, but when you check the output shaft that hooks to the auger, does it turn? Is the screw that attatches the auger to the gearmotor output shaft loose? Just a few ideas......."no feeds" can be tough, especially without draft readings....keep us posted!

 

[Delta-T]

I think it was mentioned in previous post, but did you "jump out" the vac switch by disconnecting the 2 wires from the UFO type disc and stick them together?If the auger motor then turns in test mode you can pretty much eliminate everyting except blockage in pipe, bad vac switch, and bad seal somewhere in the stove.

 

[wil lanfear]

Looking at the wiring diagram on page # 29 of the owners manual, the hopper lid switch has to be a closed contact, the low pressure switch has to be a closed contact, in order for the auger motor to run. Have you confirmed that these both are closed? If you have, IMHO, maybe its time for the dealer's service tech to take a look at it.

how do you test if the hopper switch is a closed contact.

Same method that I mentioned to do on the vac switch. If you know someone that has a multimeter or if you have one and know how to use it, its really a simple process to determine if both the switches are functioning properly. Actually, a continuty tester will tell you if either switch is faulty or if the combustion blower is closing the contacts on the vac switch. It is quite possible that the controller is faulty or the cable plug that connects to the CB is partially disconnected from the CB.

 

[GVA]

:long:

 

[craigsward]

Another day and another call to the dealer and nothing.

I'm gonna go inspect the board closer and test the hopper lid.
Again i don't have much experience with pellet stoves, but it seems like the door could shut a lot tighter. If i recall one of you guys said this woudl cause the auger not to feed. Would it also cause the light not to be lit?

EDIT:
I just reread GVA's post and apparently the light would be lit. So nevermind on that front. Back to the board theory.

 

[GVA]

I wish you had a multimeter.... 8-/

On a last thought (besides what I've aready mentioned and am sticking with) Do you have a plug tester?
You know the thing with the 3 lights on it that you plug into a outlet and it tells you if it's wired correctly......
If your hot and neutral are reversed then the control board may not work properly.
This would negate a waranteed service call by you're dealer.

 

[craigsward]

Well i opened up the board and the main plug was only half on. SO i pushed it on and sure enough it did NOT fix the problem. Still no lights. So i ran the continuity test at the vacuum switch and the light LIT up on the feed motor and started feeding pellets. Still NO igniter light though. I hooked everything back up and went into test mode and of course it didn't work.

So what does that mean. Bad vacuum switch? Are those things expensive? I know its warrantiable but if i have to wait three weeks for a tech to come out, i'll just buy a new one if its cheap.

No multimeter or plug tester, but i can get one. My father in law is an electrician and will be here tomorrow.

 

[craigsward]

I think it was mentioned in previous post, but did you "jump out" the vac switch by disconnecting the 2 wires from the UFO type disc and stick them together?If the auger motor then turns in test mode you can pretty much eliminate everyting except blockage in pipe, bad vac switch, and bad seal somewhere in the stove.

The auger motor turns so does everyone agree that these three scenarios are my potential problems?
And if thats the case i know i don't have a blockage in the pipe, its brand new. Again i can't imagine that i have a bad seal. The stove is brand new. So that only leaves vacuum switch.

Is the blue wire supposed to be attached on the lower part of the vac switch and the other wire above it. Just want to make sure they are hooked up correctly.

Does the igniter light only come on when it ignites. Because it doesn't come on even when i did the juimp test. Only the feed and two blower lights.

 

[Delta-T]

doesn't matter which wire goes where on the vac switch. Igniter light does not come on in test mode, only when the stove is starting. You can suck on that vac switch hose and listen closely to hear the "click" of the switch engaging. I've seen a couple bad vac switches (brand new) over the years, so I think that possibility is on the table. Only the magnahelix will tell for sure at this point.

 

[wil lanfear]

I think it was mentioned in previous post, but did you "jump out" the vac switch by disconnecting the 2 wires from the UFO type disc and stick them together?If the auger motor then turns in test mode you can pretty much eliminate everyting except blockage in pipe, bad vac switch, and bad seal somewhere in the stove.

The auger motor turns and the other wire above it. Just want to so does everyone agree that these three scenarios are my potential problems?
And if thats the case i know i don't have a blockage in the pipe, its brand new. Again i can't imagine that i have a bad seal. The stove is brand new. So that only leaves vacuum switch.

Is the blue wire supposed to be attached on the lower part of the vac switch make sure they are hooked up correctly.

Does the igniter light only come on when it ignites. Because it doesn't come on even when i did the juimp test. Only the feed and two blower lights.

Have you tried the stove in auto position now that the auger motor feeds pellets to see if the igniter will lite the pellets? If the auger now feeds pellets, the vac switch and the door lid switches are closed, the vac switch has to be in closed position in order to have the igniter energized to lite the fuel.

 

[craigsward]

I didn't try it in auto mode because the vaccuum switch won't close when its hooked up. The auger only feeds when i bypass the vacuum switch. I would imagine igniting it without the vacuum switch in play is probably a bad thing, no?

 

[wil lanfear]

Ahh, the auger doesn't turn unless the vac switch wires are connected together. Power the stove up, with the OAK disconnected, put your hand over the inlet air port checking to see if you can feel inlet air entering the combustion area, listening for a change in the air entering the air wash on the door glass when your hand covers the inlet air port. If you can feel air movement at the inlet into the combustion area, put the jumper back on the vac switch wires, power the stove up to see after it feeds pellets that the igniter will lite the pellets. DO NOT LEAVE THE STOVE UNATTENDED WITH THE VAC SWITCH BYPASSED If the igniter lites the fuel, fire looks like it is burning clean, not a lazy flame, it points a finger at a faulty vac switch. If it fails to lite or you have a lazy flame, I would pull the combustion blower, checking to make sure the set screw on the fan blade is tight.

 

[GVA]

It's official I'm retireing from this stuff..... I guess I can't tell which end is up anymore
It was a good run..
see ya'll on the other side....
(Light's should still have come on... Unless Harman has changed the boards around some.)

 

[amick780]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why have you not contacted the dealer to come fix a brand new under warrany $3500 pellet stove?

 

[swalz]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why have you not contacted the dealer to come fix a brand new under warrany $3500 pellet stove?

He has contacted the dealer, the dealer is not getting back to him. I am in the same boat trying to get warranty work done on my stove, they want to charge me for the time. My dealer no longer sells Harman so now I have to fight to get it covered.

 

[amick780]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why have you not contacted the dealer to come fix a brand new under warrany $3500 pellet stove?

He has contacted the dealer, the dealer is not getting back to him. I am in the same boat, trying to get warranty work done on my stove, they want to charge me for the time. My dealer no longer sells Harman so now I have to fight to get it covered.

Gotcha, I would just hope that Harman would be helpful in a situtation like this, brand new broken stove. I guess I need to read my warranty card (just in case).

 

[craigsward]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why have you not contacted the dealer to come fix a brand new under warrany $3500 pellet stove?

I have every day this week with no response from the tech that is supposed to call me back. Tomorrow they are getting an ear full...

I'll try what you said Wil and report back.

No worries GVA, you sound like you know what you are talking about. just kidding. I'm sure you actually do. I appreciate you troubleshooting with me.

 

[Xena]

Wow. This is a bunch of BS. You should not have to be troubleshooting anything
for days on end when you have a stove that is under warranty. I'd be totally pissed as
I'm sure you are at this point. Maybe the dealer you are trying to get service from
needs to light a fire under the techs ass. No call back is not acceptable and even if
they are backed up with work then they should be able to contact Harman and get someone else on
your warrantied product in a timely manner.

 

[craigsward]

Wow. This is a bunch of BS. You should not have to be troubleshooting anything
for days on end when you have a stove that is under warranty. I'd be totally pissed as
I'm sure you are at this point. Maybe the dealer you are trying to get service from
needs to light a fire under the techs ass. No call back is not acceptable and even if
they are backed up with work then they should be able to contact Harman and get someone else on
your warrantied product in a timely manner.

Tell me about it... My wife is even pissed now, and thats not good for anybody.
I bought the stove in April, just never installed it until now. I guess my business is 6 months old now and doesn't matter.. I am going to buy another stove, wood or pellet, for an addition in the next year or so, and i know where i won't be going.

 

[Lousyweather]

try this:

Ensure ALL doors are closed. Check hopper gaskets, especially the corners...if they need it, re-silicone it.....

now,
put selector in OFF position. UNPLUG the unit, wait 10 minutes. Now, set the feed selector to 3, plug it in, and move the mode selector to halfway between L and H. See what happens.......new board revisions

 

[tinkabranc]

Wow. This is a bunch of BS. You should not have to be troubleshooting anything
for days on end when you have a stove that is under warranty. I'd be totally pissed as
I'm sure you are at this point. Maybe the dealer you are trying to get service from
needs to light a fire under the techs ass. No call back is not acceptable and even if
they are backed up with work then they should be able to contact Harman and get someone else on
your warrantied product in a timely manner.

I agree 100% with zena. This is very upsetting to see that you have to continue to chase down
people to fix a brand new stove under warranty in a timely manner.
Harman has a good warranty, BUT it is useless if/when you don't have dealer/tech support.

Kudos to the great people on this forum that always step up and try to help others out even
though they are not obligated to.

 

[craigsward]

I was fairly convinced that i had a bad vacuum switch, so i replaced it. By the way the tech finally got in touch with me and told me to go down to the store and get a switch for free.
SO i replaced it and it didn't fix the problem. So that made me think that it had to be a bad seal somewhere. I than began to inspect the inside of the hopper and sure enough in both corners of the hopper the silicon was split, and there was a big gap in the metal. And upon further inspection it looks like someone must of either dropped my stove on the rear, or hit it with a fork lift, or something because the rear of the hopper is dented and bent in the corners. The metal doesn't really sit flush. They are ordering me a new hopper and going to install it once it comes in, but who knows how long it will take to get the new hopper in from Harman. I was able to bend the metal back into place a bit, its definitly not perfect, but its close enough. I then resealed it, and put the stove into test mode and it appeared to work. The feed motor lights up and it feeds pellets. However it will NOT auto light. The feed motor seems to shut off after about 60 seconds or so of feeding pellets. I then put it to feed setting 4, turned it to "stove temp", and flipped to the auto ignite settings. NOTHING seems to happen. Just the combustion blower runs and is the only light on.

Is the feed motor light supposed to remain on all the time? Will i hear the igniter firing? How long until auto ignition actually works? What do you think my issues is now?

The saga continues..... I guess accidents happen at the factory, none the less its frustrating that a brand new stove is all bent up. I'm surprised i didn't notice the bent metal before, its fairly substantial.
Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[Lousyweather]

I was fairly convinced that i had a bad vacuum switch, so i replaced it. By the way the tech finally got in touch with me and told me to go down to the store and get a switch for free.
SO i replaced it and it didn't fix the problem. So that made me think that it had to be a bad seal somewhere. I than began to inspect the inside of the hopper and sure enough in both corners of the hopper the silicon was split, and there was a big gap in the metal. And upon further inspection it looks like someone must of either dropped my stove on the rear, or hit it with a fork lift, or something because the rear of the hopper is dented and bent in the corners. The metal doesn't really sit flush. They are ordering me a new hopper and going to install it once it comes in, but who knows how long it will take to get the new hopper in from Harman. I was able to bend the metal back into place a bit, its definitly not perfect, but its close enough. I then resealed it, and put the stove into test mode and it appeared to work. The feed motor lights up and it feeds pellets. However it will NOT auto light. The feed motor seems to shut off after about 60 seconds or so of feeding pellets. I then put it to feed setting 4, turned it to "stove temp", and flipped to the auto ignite settings. NOTHING seems to happen. Just the combustion blower runs and is the only light on.

Is the feed motor light supposed to remain on all the time? Will i hear the igniter firing? How long until auto ignition actually works? What do you think my issues is now?

The saga continues..... I guess accidents happen at the factory, none the less its frustrating that a brand new stove is all bent up. I'm surprised i didn't notice the bent metal before, its fairly substantial.
Thanks for all your help guys!

well, I was right on the hopper seal....lemme take a shot at the rest......
the feed motor light will only stay on while the feeder is powered.....you wont hear the igniter fire, and it can take several minutes to light. A whole lighting cycle can take like 36 minutes, but, have you felt the burn pot to see if its getting hot? if not, bad igniter, most likely. The comb blower is supposed to run, it provides air to the system......try this now:

1. Switch the toggle to AUTO
2. turn the stove to OFF
3. Unplug it
4. Ensure everything is closed and locked down...ash door, hopper door, front door
5. set temp to...oh, lets say 75 degrees
6. plug stove back in
7. switch to room temp mode, and a middle setting between L and H


Im a bit leery of a stove with damage like you describe......I wonder if there is unseen damage?