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Yikes! This can't be possible!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by missesbeasley, Feb 17, 2008.

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  1. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    580
    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    It may be that your fireplace guy is trying to "protect" you from the details, taking a "leave it to me" attitude. I can tell you with confidence that some re-framing will be needed. Some modifications to your existing chase will be required to accommodate a new high-efficiency fireplace and chimney. The clearance codes are much more strict than for your old "builder box" type of fireplace. It would not be unusual for me to charge an extra day of labor to do the re-frame and get it inspected by the local building inspector. Don't assume it's a quick swap.

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  2. SlyFerret

    SlyFerret Minister of Fire

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    As I was doing research on my own stove, I read up on lots of extra stuff. I can't tell you what this should cost, but I can tell you that taking out the fireplace you have and putting in the quad is going to be a major project. If I were building a new house, I would be looking seriously at installing one of these with the whole house ducting kit.

    If you haven't seen the instruction manual for the stove yet, here's a link to the manual on Quadrafire's site.
    http://content.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/man_7100fp.pdf

    It might give you a better idea about what is really going to be required so that you can tell if the details in your quote are accurate.

    -SF
  3. scfa99

    scfa99 New Member

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    missesbeasley, here is a link to the what we removed and the finished product once the 7100 was installed. http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1992/P0/

    your setup is similar, removal of prefab fp, pipe and install 7100 and pipe. My removal and install by 2 installers took 5 hours and included moving the header. We are extremely happy with our Quad it represents 90% of our heat. We do turn the furnace on when the temp is below 20 degrees, just in the morning for a couple cycles to warm up the far upstairs bedrooms. let me know if you have any questions on the unit. the other forum did have posts about issues with the 7100 but most were from older units and quad made some changes. if i had to do it again I would install the exact same unit. I also have a friend who put one in at the same time and he loves it.
  4. missesbeasley

    missesbeasley New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Maryland
    OH! Thank you! The pictures are wonderful and help a great deal! I am so glad you love your unit. I did also notice that most of the negatives regarding the Quad were from the original models, and that once the company fixed the problems that people did love the unit.

    How did you finish your FP in terms of the surround? Did you add brick or stone?

    I figured it would only be about a days work or at the most two. The four day installation seemed a bit excessive to me, but what do I know?! LOL!

    Do you recall what you paid for your installation? New Jersey and MD are similar in terms of markets, I believer. Just curious.
  5. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Clarks Summit,Pa.
    I thought being ***** was illegal? This surely what this dealer is doing to you.
    For your sake, please get a quote from another dealer, and compare apples to apples, and oranges to oranges.
    This dealer must have a few kiddies that are ready for college and the tuition cost that are associated with it.
    My God, you could probably install a complete, new, efficent, home heating system in your house of this price and still have some money left over, not just a fireplace insert.
    This dealer must think you have money to burn or give away.
  6. swestall

    swestall Minister of Fire

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    Connecticut
    The thought that comes to mind is why not go to more dealers of differing units, tell them what you want to accomplish and see what they have to say. If you could accoplish your goals with a different insert that was not a total fireplace, then it might cost you an amount more in line with your budget. Were it me, I would certainly not run into removing an insert and installing an entire new fireplace system/chimney without this level of analysis.
    If after that, you decide to go for the Quad and $13K job, then you will at least know what you are getting and that you decided upon it vs. the other alternatives.
  7. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Amen, on that brother!! If you are planning on heating your whole house with this unit, I hope it is going in the lower level, because if it is going in the upper level, how is the heat going to get to the lower level without additional zone ducting and venting? Heat rises.
    I would have to see this unit truely heat the square footage you mentioned you wanted to heat.
  8. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    For 13K, I wood think," There is a lot more to the install. Do yourself a favor, take the money and buy yourself a new efficent heating system for your home. You will be thankful that you did in the long run.
    Thirteen Grand for a fierplace insert, comon, give me a break!
  9. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    Just to clarify for the newbies. As has already been mentioned, but may be lost on some folks, what we are discussing here is not what we in the hearth industry call an "insert". Many in the building industry do use the word "insert" to refer to a factory-built zero-clearance fireplace. However, the units in question here are more correctly termed built-in "fireplaces", or "built-in stoves". These types of units are FAR MORE expensive than inserts and cost FAR MORE to install. It is not unusual to spend $10K to $15k on a "fireplace". It is unusual to spend that kind of money on an "insert".

    I have done many installations of these high-efficiency fireplaces where the total cost has exceeded $13,000. The results can be extremely sound financially, when compared to alternative types of fireplaces. It all depends on what is wanted. It is not fair to call a guy a crook based on a simple price. There are too many unknowns. Yes, this guy may have the specs wrong and has not really addressed the client's needs. This does not, by default, make him a crook. I would hold back judgment until all the facts are in. I would hate to be accused of underhanded business practices simply because I gave a quote to someone that came in a lot higher than they were expecting. There is usually something else at work in those cases. It usually comes down to not getting a clear picture of what the client wants or is willing to pay for. This dealer may need to improve his estimating techniques and communications, but I wouldn't call him a crook because he has a high estimate.
  10. Chettt

    Chettt Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Western Michigan
    Sean your point is well taken, $13,400 is probably a fair price for that product installed. My point is that she says this is money they don't have. Even if this product is half as good as the brochure says it will be, financing a wood stove of that nature for their location seems like a bad idea. Right now it 46 degrees F in Clarksville Maryland and they are expecting a high of 51 today and 59 for Monday. I know the mid atlantic states gets some cold weather but wouldn't you agree that this product would be better suited for a hunting lodge in Montana or upstate NY?

    This is a good topic,
    Chettt.
  11. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Carver, MA.
    Absolutely gorgeous hearth you have there!! The wall sconces are a nice touch too..

    Ray
  12. Fire Bug

    Fire Bug New Member

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    Bottom Line: only she and her husband know what they truly can afford and want to spend on this particular item.
    At this price, I think it is only logical for them to do some comparison shopping and "Compare Apples To Apples, and Oranges to Oranges" in terms in what they are getting by way of itemized estimates from other dealers on exactly the same product.
    I am sorry but that is one awful expensive fireplace that really doesn't have anything special in the asthetics dept. as far as I am concerned. To each their own, I guess.
    I just wondering why anyone would want to spend that kind of coin on another wood burning applicance to replace an existing wood burning appliance. I know the the new one is definitely more efficent but look at the price and your still involved with something is labor intensive when in a matter of hours a gas insert of your choice, could be installed for a quarter of the price.
    But, everyone has their own needs and wants.
  13. scfa99

    scfa99 New Member

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    We added to stone to the surround, check out some of the pics later in the thread and they should provide a good view of the look. We used cultured stone by Owens Corning. Our install was $550 and that included removing the old unit, moving the header up to accomdate the 7100, installing the 7100, outside air vents and installing the new pipe. Did not include taking the old one away, I took care of that.
  14. scfa99

    scfa99 New Member

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    Chett I think there is significant savings even in the mid atlantic states. here's a blog I wrote about the savings I've had over the past 3 years. http://blog.getitnext.com/weblog/2007/12/how-to-out-smar.html. This year it will be even higher as the price of propane keeps going up. My next door neighbors propane bill last year was 4k and he kept his heat 63-65, same size house.
  15. WALJ

    WALJ New Member

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    Loc:
    Ohio
    Hello,
    I replaced a heatalator zero clearance fireplace with a bis tradition CE. My first choice was the Quadrafire but it was to large to put in the existing chase and (chase) would have to be rebuilt to accommodate the larger unit. The CE fit in fine and reduced the total price to 5.5k with stove price and chimney included (15ft and starter section).
    I removed old unit and did the stone facia myself and saved some money there. Dealer did rest of install. My home is single story 1750 sq ft open concept. The unit keeps house in the 70s with no help from my furnace (Ohio weather is pretty mild compared to the rest of you guys). Just some stuff to think about. Good luck with the install. Bill
  16. ALLTHEGROSS

    ALLTHEGROSS New Member

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    northwesternct
    i had a quote to install the same unit for about 6500. i didnt go with it i ended up installing a northstar heatnglo pretty much the same unit just a little smaller and it works just fine after doing some shopping around and doing the finish work myself i did the whole thing for about 4000. so unless you need some special work done that does sound high and why do you need such a big unit? I have the northstar in a huge room with a 30ft celing and that could heat to much if i want

    and buy the way i used to burn over 2000 gallons of oil in a 5000 sf home this year i have burned 250 keeping the bed rooms warm at night so with the price of oil at 3.25 a gallon ill about have the northstar paid for this year. now i will burn about six cord this year i would normally say that was a cost but i got it all free and should be able to have next year set by the end of feb. a truck,trailer,good chainsaw and a neighbor with a splitter really helps

    big stuff is oak. and there is five more trailer loads where that came from

    [​IMG]
  17. scfa99

    scfa99 New Member

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    missesbeasley,

    any updates on this? did you get another quote or a breakdown for the 13K? I need closure on this.
  18. jkupcha

    jkupcha New Member

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    Dec 21, 2006
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    I also had my zero clearance fireplace installed. A Napoleon NZ6000. Funny but my total price was $13,000. It was a 2 week job. I had the old gas burning fake log fireplace removed and a complete manufactured stone firplace, hearth and mantel installed as part of the job. The exisitng exterior chimney was a framed vinyl sided one which luckily was able to house the new class A pipe with a new cap. The unit weighed 800 lbs and was a bear to move.
    Been happy with the unit. easily heats our 3000sf house here in southern Jersey even when the temps are in the 20's. This season I burned 4 cords of wood. Only problems I've had are the glass getting dirty all the time and the door hinges bent under the weight of the large 20lb doors. My installer called the manufacturer Wolfe Steel and they are sending out new hinges. Hope this info helps.
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