Local cost per million btu's

[fox9988]

http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
Appliance efficiency explained by clicking the blue heat source on the calculator.
Priced as per lowest annual rates for storables.
I also threw in an air sourced heat pump at 220% efficiency.
My rates-
Electric-$16.55
Heat Pump-$7.52
Oil-N/A in my area
Propane-$19.98
NG-$8.80 but N/A to me
Pellets-$17.80
Wood-$6.57 (BTU's corrected for local species availability)

 

[fox9988]

Longest I've been without electricity-17 days (ice storm '09), 12 days (ice storm '01).

 

[smoke show]

just bought propane .89/gal here

 

[fox9988]

$.89 It's around $1.50 here, NG is much cheaper, if you live in town (here). I thought there would be a few surprises. Where is the "Frozen Tundra", AK?

 

[Danno77]

Dangit. It's cheaper to heat with NG. Don't tell my wife.

 

[fox9988]

Dangit. It's cheaper to heat with NG. Don't tell my wife.

I'll never tell.
P.s. Locally (town) there is a $10 monthly service fee on NG. Does that help any?

 

[Danno77]

Natural gas here works out to being half as much as wood if I had to buy it. It's not even close!

That's if I took the cheap way out and bought it already processed. Not for me, though, I like chainsaws and trucks and splitters and sharpeners and PPE and buying an ipad just to use Hearth.com, and the gas to power everything, and ruining half my yard to store the wood, and restacking, and moisture meters, Laser thermometers, and a new stove every few years.

I refuse to figure out what wood burning REALLY costs me, because I'm not in it to save a buck (although I know it can be cost effective for the right people). I do this because I love it.

 

[fox9988]

Danno what would a cord you? NG?

 

[Danno77]

Cord would run close to $120-$150 bucks delivered, there might be better rates, but that's my trusted wood guy.

NG is current .36, but would be higher in the winter. Let's say .45 to keep it interesting.

 

[smoke show]

Where is the "Frozen Tundra", AK?

outskirts of Green Bay Wi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Frozen_Tundra#.22The_Frozen_Tundra.22

 

[Jags]

Confused - How can something be 220% efficient? It suggests that you are getting twice as much out of it, as you are putting into it. Not possible.

 

[Danno77]

I assumed that meant it was geothermal.

 

[fox9988]

Confused - How can something be 220% efficient? It suggests that you are getting twice as much out of it, as you are putting into it. Not possible.

My original thoughts exactly. Simply put; A heat pump uses a small mount of energy to transfer (pump) a larger amount of energy (heat). So, it's using electricity to pump heat from outside to inside (even though it's cold outside), vs using electricity to heat with (resistance heating/dead short). They lose efficiency as the outside temp drops. At 32 they switch to resistance heating (100% efficient).
A window unit AC is a heat pump, reversed.

 

[Jags]

Now I am getting it. They are not creating it. They are just getting it there (pump).

 

[fossil]

Confused - How can something be 220% efficient? It suggests that you are getting twice as much out of it, as you are putting into it. Not possible.

Correct - not possible. And not the case. I think what's up here is that this air source heat pump has a 2.2 Coefficient of Performance (COP - a very different measure of performance from efficiency)...not an efficiency of 220%. A 2.2 COP isn't particularly impressive, BTW...3 - 3.5 is often seen.

 

[Danno77]

That makes more sense considering ACs (if they are similar) use SEER which is a similar coefficient number.

 

[fox9988]

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12610
Claims a heat pump can pump up to four times more energy than it consumes.?

 

[Jags]

Correct - not possible. And not the case. I think what's up here is that this air source heat pump has a 2.2 Coefficient of Performance (COP - a very different measure of performance from efficiency)...not an efficiency of 220%. A 2.2 COP isn't particularly impressive, BTW...3 - 3.5 is often seen.

Ahh...more betterer.

 

[fox9988]

Correct - not possible. And not the case. I think what's up here is that this air source heat pump has a 2.2 Coefficient of Performance (COP - a very different measure of performance from efficiency)...not an efficiency of 220%. A 2.2 COP isn't particularly impressive, BTW...3 - 3.5 is often seen.

COP=Efficiency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

 

[Shadow&Flame]

Longest I've been without electricity-17 days (ice storm '08), 12 days (ice storm '01).

I have been lucky with power outages...only been out a week for us. The power goes out all the time but it doesnt take long for it to come back on...

 

[fox9988]

I have been lucky with power outages...only been out a week for us. The power goes out all the time but it doesnt take long for it to come back on...

I have been unlucky, In '09 my transformer was laying in the yard. But then again some folks where out a week longer than me.

 

[Shadow&Flame]

I have been unlucky, In '09 my transformer was laying in the yard. But then again some folks where out a week longer than me.

I guess living close to schools and such they tend to get it back up pretty quickly. Up were you are they tend to get alot more snow and ice than we get.
I have some friends who live up above Clinton and there the power is always going off....

 

[fossil]

Well, if you're just going to keep editing your post and tossing up more links to definitions and things, I'm done here...I'll take my three degrees in Mechanical Engineering and crawl back to my hovel. Rick

 

[fox9988]

Check the link on post 19. Air sourced.
I may eat my words here, definitely not my profession.

 

[Shadow&Flame]

Ok guys dont start using logic, wisdom and truth...or I cant be a part of this disscussion....