Indoor or Outside gassifier

[wnv]

new to forum, looking at potential system.

will be heating a well insulated shop (3000sq ft) and older wood frame house 2000sq ft

could go with a P&M 250 or build a wood storage /boiler room and a Wood Gun AHS

have existing oil forced air in house and in floor pex in shop

Trying to sort out all the pros and cons ,so looking for comments

 

[danjayh]

new to forum, looking at potential system.

will be heating a well insulated shop (3000sq ft) and older wood frame house 2000sq ft

could go with a P&M 250 or build a wood storage /boiler room and a Wood Gun AHS

have existing oil forced air in house and in floor pex in shop

Trying to sort out all the pros and cons ,so looking for comments

Just FYI, my insurance company told me that putting one in any building/space that will have vehicles stored in it would be cause for dropping my policy (I wanted to put it in my garage) ... so if you do go indoors, it will either have to be in the basement, or in its own room. Chimney is also much cheaper outdoors. On the other hand, then you have to get cold to tend to it. I have a Maxim pellet/corn boiler, with the upside that I only have to tend to the boiler once or twice a week and can run without storage, the downside being that I have to buy my fuel.

 

[wnv]

I don,t have a wood storage so need to have a structure of some kind one way or another.I see where some are using a separate boiler room to help condition their wood. Thinking the boiler would be separate from house and shop regardless

 

[danjayh]

I don,t have a wood storage so need to have a structure of some kind one way or another.I see where some are using a separate boiler room to help condition their wood. Thinking the boiler would be separate from house and shop regardless

I don't know if money is a concern for you or not, but if it is, you could always tarp your wood (a lot more of a pain when snow is on it, though). Personally I just ended up putting the stove 10 ft from my garage and keeping the pellets in there.

 

[Gasifier]

A few questions for you. Where abouts do you live? Have you done a heat loss calculation on everything you will heat with it to get an idea of BTU output you need? Do you want to heat your Domestic Hot Water(DHW) with it as well? Might as well. Right?

I heat my home, garage, and DHW and have mine in my basement. I use an indirect hot water heater that is heated by the wood boiler. The whole system is pressurized. I like the fact that the heat coming off the boiler heats a space I want heated (my house). The boiler radiates a lot of heat. If I had to do it again however, I think I would have it in it's own room in an attached garage. It kind of depends on what your basement is like and what you want it like. Ours is finished off, needs a remodel though, but I stay after the "wood mess" every day and it does not bother me. I have a big house and I need all the heat from the boiler I can get. And I love heating everything with wood. No more oil man The boiler room crowd is great here. Keep asking questions.

 

[Tennman]

Oh boy..... We really need a sticky on this debate. No offense intended wnv, just this is a very popular recurring question that I can't resist expressing MHO and we have passionate devotees on both sides. I will quote myself again, "There is no wrong answer, there are very valid advantages to either location and both approaches are right!" Inside - certainly more efficient and probably more convenient when it comes time to reload, Outside - keeps dust, occasional smoke, bugs, and my mess separate from the little woman. For me, I could never cohabitate with my wood burning beast. To quote a respected boiler installer that posts here often, "In my experience, the people who install their boiler in an outbuilding are generally more happy with their installation." In my case, I saw, split, stack, burn, clean the boiler, remove ashes, dispose of ashes, etc 120' away from my home. I waste some wood generated energy, but save a huge amount of my energy worrying about smoke, dust, dirt, and toting wood. Now you'll get lots of good and valid advice from the other camp. Best wishes.... now go spend my 2 cents.

 

[maple1]

It is totally a question of personal preferences and individual situations. I'm all in my basement. If I didn't have a nice outdoor entrance to it, and the wood handling situation I have, I would likely be all outdoors with a boiler/wood shed right next to my wood handling area. Or at least maybe.

So just like only you can prevent forest fires - only you can answer this question.

 

[charly]

Myself I spent 7 winters feeding a an outdoor boiler, a Woodmaster. Then switched to a Paxo 60 with 1000 gallons of thermal storage. Built a shed for that whole set up. Had my wood inside as well. Made it nice when the winds were blowing and 10 degrees out. Plus if any thing needed attention, you were inside where it was toasty warm.

 

[salecker]

We built a seperate boiler building,for all the reasons that Tennman said,plus both my wife and daughter have asthma,we don't have fire insurance. And last winter in a town 100 miles away,5 people died of carbon monoxide poisoning.Our system was already built when that tragedy happened,and any discomfort i had with having to walk 120' to tend the fire was completely removed.
We have a warm building that is avalibale for many different uses,we probly use extra wood because of that but it grows on trees around here,so no big deal

 

[wnv]

Myself I spent 7 winters feeding a an outdoor boiler, a Woodmaster. Then switched to a Paxo 60 with 1000 gallons of thermal storage. Built a shed for that whole set up. Had my wood inside as well. Made it nice when the winds were blowing and 10 degrees out. Plus if any thing needed attention, you were inside where it was toasty warm.

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How did you decide on the Paxo. With the thermal storage what is your ave burning cycle and what do you think your heat load is?

 

[charly]

How did you decide on the Paxo. With the thermal storage what is your ave burning cycle and what do you think your heat load is?

I have since sold the place,,,,, what I can tell you is I could go 12 hours with no fire, heating a 1800 sq ft log cabin and a 1200 sq ft garage. I also had a 612 gallon STSS storage tank in my basement as well , so an easy 1600 gallons of storage. I use to let my tank temps go down to 130 degrees from 180 , but then realized, trying to heat all the refractory back up in my Paxo was a big waste of fuel. So if I did it now, I would just maintain a 10 degree differential instead. Just topping things off as needed. I think you'd use less wood in the long run. Plus if anything happened, you'd have some reserve heat. My house and garage had radiant heat plus an indirect water heater was supplied as well. I decided on the Paxo 60 because of great support from Mark at AHONA heat. He set up my storage tanks with weld rings so they were ready to go, bought it all from him. He designed my system. Man is a genius! Also he was there after the sale,,,,,, anytime I called! I believe Mark now sell Vigas boilers which he said are bullet proof.. If you haven't bought yet , I'd take a minute and talk with Mark, he's a very honest guy! If nothing you'll learn a lot. He designs alot of things himself as well. Had his own controller boards built which would retrofit other boilers giving you a wider range of options for controlling your boiler. Good luck,
Charlie

 

[ozzie88]

Hello, here a site that list boilers and http://www.hvac-for-beginners.com/wood-boiler-ratings.html ratings that may be helpfull?? Has alot info. good luck!

 

[Gasifier]

Myself I spent 7 winters feeding a an outdoor boiler, a Woodmaster. Then switched to a Paxo 60 with 1000 gallons of thermal storage. Built a shed for that whole set up. Had my wood inside as well. Made it nice when the winds were blowing and 10 degrees out. Plus if any thing needed attention, you were inside where it was toasty warm.

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That is very friggin nice charly. Very nice.

 

[Gasifier]

Hello, here a site that list boilers and http://www.hvac-for-beginners.com/wood-boiler-ratings.html ratings that may be helpfull?? Has alot info. good luck!

???????????

 

[charly]

That is very friggin nice charly. Very nice.

Thanks for the compliment. To our surprise we sold our home the follow summer, uggg,,, after all that work. I'm good friends with the new owners, he's enjoying the stove.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Yes Gas I have to agree. I have seen this site before & to say the least it is very misleading.

Notice how all the tried & true brands rate <1 (worst rating) for a Froling & all the bankrupt frauds & just plain old bad built units rate 5 (best rating).

Makes one wonder whats going on with that site. Actually makes it clear what is going on.

 

[maple1]

Hello, here a site that list boilers and http://www.hvac-for-beginners.com/wood-boiler-ratings.html ratings that may be helpfull?? Has alot info. good luck!

They give Free Heat Machine a 5*, and Wood Doctor a 4*.

I'd say that site is misleading at best.

 

[charly]

They give Free Heat Machine a 5*, and Wood Doctor a 4*.

I'd say that site is misleading at best.

All I know is those outdoor boilers might be easy, just throw the wood in and walk away,,,,, but man they love wood,,, I had all radiant heat with a Woodmaster boiler and I still burned 12 cords a winter. I even tried from a 5 to 20 degree differential setting on the aqua-stat and it still ate wood. I talked to some people with big heat loads that went through 23 cords a winter with an outdoor boiler. Seemed like once the steel pin holed on your boiler, people found out how quick they were not covered by their warrantee and were now on their own to patch the stove.

 

[muncybob]

IMHO, there is no clear cut answer and it all boils down to personal preference and actual structure.
If you have a finished basement I would lean toward the boiler being in an out building basically to keep any clean up out of the house. We have an unfinished basement with concrete floor, clean up is a breeze since it's not necessary to be spotless. Also you need to consider how you will get the wood into the basement, we have 3 steps down to navigate carrying an arm full of splits. Not a big deal to me but I can see a slip/fall in my future if not really careful. I will just throw the wood into the basement if it's really slippery by the basement entry way but then I have more clean up involved.

Speaking of clean up, it's really very minimal for me. I actually spend as much time cleaning up some ash that fell onto the floor while doing my weekly maintenance of the boiler as I do cleaning up after the actual firewood. Bugs have not been an issue for us either, but even if we saw a few it would not matter much since the area is unfinished and we have not seen any increase of little critters in the living areas since storing wood in the basement.

Up until this year smoke escape out of the firebox was sometimes a bit of an issue, but no more since I finally got around to connecting my exhaust fan. For us, the residual heat loss that rises into the living areas and being able to tend to the boiler in our skivvies were a big plus.

 

[stee6043]

IMHO, there is no clear cut answer and it all boils down to personal preference and actual structure.
If you have a finished basement I would lean toward the boiler being in an out building basically to keep any clean up out of the house. We have an unfinished basement with concrete floor, clean up is a breeze since it's not necessary to be spotless. Also you need to consider how you will get the wood into the basement, we have 3 steps down to navigate carrying an arm full of splits. Not a big deal to me but I can see a slip/fall in my future if not really careful. I will just throw the wood into the basement if it's really slippery by the basement entry way but then I have more clean up involved.

Speaking of clean up, it's really very minimal for me. I actually spend as much time cleaning up some ash that fell onto the floor while doing my weekly maintenance of the boiler as I do cleaning up after the actual firewood. Bugs have not been an issue for us either, but even if we saw a few it would not matter much since the area is unfinished and we have not seen any increase of little critters in the living areas since storing wood in the basement.

Up until this year smoke escape out of the firebox was sometimes a bit of an issue, but no more since I finally got around to connecting my exhaust fan. For us, the residual heat loss that rises into the living areas and being able to tend to the boiler in our skivvies were a big plus.

I have to agree. At the end of the day it's about convenience for the user and it will depend on each use case. I have a finished walk-out basement and find the mess inside to be very minimal. Efficiency improvements and loading ease make inside boilers, for me, the only way to operate.

I can tell you that my EKO 40 in my basement produces approximately 5.859% as much mess, annually, as a two year old boy with a one year old sister. Seriously...

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

I have burned wood for many years inside using a pacific energy free standing stove (great unit!).

However, it would not heat our entire house so I purchased a EKO40 and installed it and 1000 gallons of propane tank storage in a room at the rear of my garage.

After 3 years of the messing with the EKO I purchased an Effecta Lambda 35 boiler. Have been using this extremely nice and easy to use boiler for 2 years now.

Having this set up inside IMO is the only way to go. I keep approx. 1-2 weeks wood indoors where it can keep dry andy I can keep nice and warm. It sure is nice tending to the Effecta on a 0 degree morning in my PJ's.

In addition, having the boiler in a room connected to my garage allows my garage to never get below 55-60 degrees even on the coldest days. If this system was not attached I would have a much colder garage.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[maple1]

But you still need to move 1-2 weeks worth of wood from outdoors to indoors every 1-2 weeks. If I was planning from scratch like the OP, I would plan for all my winters wood being under cover all at once with the boiler - if at all possible.

And I think there are lots of boiler brands that work just fine in your scenario - even EKOs.