burley wakerley 12kw stove

[leoibb]

considering a new stove, the burley Wakerley 12kw
anyone had any experience of them? the questions i have is if they are so insulated then how do we get the heat? an old stove may smoke and lose heat but there is a heck of a lot of heat transfered through the sides. so these super efficient stove are they any more beneficial in making the house warmer. ?
i have no experience of these stoves so i am unsure if there warmer or not?

 

[Sprinter]

I can't comment on this particular model, but to answer your more general question, the efficiencies that are realized from modern stoves is not from insulation of any kind. They are designed to burn a lot more gasses and smoke than older models can, so a lot more heat is generated, and transferred, from every pound of wood.

There are basically two ways this is done. One is by placing tubes at the top of the firebox which are supplied with air. They get hot enough to burn off the excess gasses and smoke that otherwise would go on up the chimney. The other method is with a catalytic device that does the same thing. It's called secondary burning.

Efficiency gains can be very dramatic, with a lot of people claiming to use half the wood they used to. Particulate emissions are also dramatically lower, which is the main reason the EPA (in the US) got involved with requiring them 20 years ago.

So, yes, they are warmer per pound of fuel, which is the bottom line for efficiency.

Welcome to the forum. Poke around the threads here and you'll learn more than you realized there is to know Edit: I see you're not new, but welcome anyway...

 

[leoibb]

thank you for that information. just another question really. i understand that pound for pound more is burnt and burnt hotter but for that to happen the unit must have temperatures raised within the box so not letting the heat out as much? another way is if there was no insulation at all the heat would be transferred at hotter temperatures through the cast metal ? thus house being warmer faster? , so altho you may use slightly more fuel the house would be a heck of a lot warmer? and quicker? ive had a few stoves and the hottest was a cheap small cast stove with no lining. ive upgraded since and much nicer and bigger i wouldn't say hotter, so i am basing it on that sort of thoughts, hope it makes sort of sense loll

 

[Sprinter]

thank you for that information. just another question really. i understand that pound for pound more is burnt and burnt hotter but for that to happen the unit must have temperatures raised within the box so not letting the heat out as much? another way is if there was no insulation at all the heat would be transferred at hotter temperatures through the cast metal ? thus house being warmer faster? , so altho you may use slightly more fuel the house would be a heck of a lot warmer? and quicker? ive had a few stoves and the hottest was a cheap small cast stove with no lining. ive upgraded since and much nicer and bigger i wouldn't say hotter, so i am basing it on that sort of thoughts, hope it makes sort of sense loll

Well, don't make it more complicated than it is. There is no insulation in any stove except for a thin blanket on top of some baffle assemblies that allows the secondaries to heat up faster. Maybe that's what you hear about sometimes. But that has no affect on the stove's heat transfer to the room.

At the risk of being a bit simplistic, if a stove is 80% efficient and you burn 50,000 BTU's of wood, you will get 40,000 BTU into the room regardless of whether it's thin steel, thick steel, cast iron, or soapstone or aluminum sheet for that matter. The only difference between those is the issue of mass which will make a difference in how quickly the stove's surface will get hot and then cool. A heavy stove will take longer to heat up because all that thermal mass is storing the energy, but it will continue to stay warm longer and with less variation. But the net amount of heat transferred is the same over time.

A lot of people like the "soft" heat feel of heavy stoves like soapstone but that's more a matter of preference than efficiency. If you like that hot-stove feel, then a plate steel stove would be more appropriate.

 

[HotCoals]

Well, don't make it more complicated than it is. There is no insulation in any stove except for a thin blanket on top of some baffle assemblies that allows the secondaries to heat up faster. Maybe that's what you hear about sometimes. But that has no affect on the stove's heat transfer to the room.

At the risk of being a bit simplistic, if a stove is 80% efficient and you burn 50,000 BTU's of wood, you will get 40,000 BTU into the room regardless of whether it's thin steel, thick steel, cast iron, or soapstone or aluminum sheet for that matter. The only difference between those is the issue of mass which will make a difference in how quickly the stove's surface will get hot and then cool. A heavy stove will take longer to heat up because all that thermal mass is storing the energy, but it will continue to stay warm longer and with less variation. But the net amount of heat transferred is the same over time.

A lot of people like the "soft" heat feel of heavy stoves like soapstone but that's more a matter of preference than efficiency. If you like that hot-stove feel, then a plate steel stove would be more appropriate.

There is no insulation in any stove except for a thin blanket on top of some baffle assemblies t

Maybe true but there are heat shields inside of most stoves now to help with keeping the fire box hot as can be for a better burn..cleaner burn.

 

[leoibb]

hi thankyou as far as i could see from the stoves i have viewed most have vermiculite as a liner and some have fire brick. some even have double glazed glass. all are there for insulation, ie to stop heat getting out of the box, or to keep heat in the box so efficiency figures aint relative to heat in to the room they are relative to how well the fuel is burned how much of it is burned., this was explained to me by a tecnical guy who makes stoves for a large company.

 

[Todd]

That extra heat still makes it out into the room, you can see the difference in the lower flue temps in the more efficient stoves. Older stoves wasted a lot of heat up the flue.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

The insulation is to keep heat in and temperatures high in the primary and secondary burn zones. The heat exchanger, where heat is transferred into the room, is uninsulated to allow for maximum heat transfer as you suggest. On the Burley stove this is the function of the tubes at the top of the stove (the six round holes you can see along the top front of the stove in the video). Of course some heat is transmitted through the glass and sidewalls too.

 

[Scott2373]

That's gotta be the most seductive advert for a wood stove that I've ever seen. Hubba-hubba!