Blown fuse issues on Harman, Breckwell, Englander, or any stove.

[kinsmanstoves]

If you have a blown fuse issue on a stove do not just replace the fuse with another or larger fuse. There is a reason the fuse blew. Trace the problem and you will find the reason. Fuses do not blow with a power surge and the fuse does not get worn out and simply blow. The reason a fuse blows is that the circuit is drawing to many amps from one component or more. Yes there can be a ground issue such as not a grounded circuit or wiring issue. Time to pull out the meter and check motors and igniter. If you do not own a meter or know how to use one, do not open the back of your stove and call someone that knows what they are doing.

NEVER REPLACE THE FUSE WITH A LARGER ONE OR WRAP IT IN FOIL.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

fuse does not get worn out and simply blow

Not always true. Fuses can, under some circumstances, fatigue from use. That being said, it is always wise to err on the side of safety and investigate the cause of failure before replacing a fuse.
Replacing a fuse with a larger size is like deciding that you know more about the circuit than the Engineers that designed the product. It just ain't so.
This is another circumstance where you can void the agency certification of the design and, therefore, be the cause of a fire. Insurance companies take a dim view of that behavior.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

fuses generally protect against shorts to ground mostly though these would be "internal" shorts due to a grounded wire or a component which goes to ground internally. as above sometimes fuses can fatigue and fail just as a lightbulb burns out.

also, never install a fuse with a higher amp rating or voltage rating than the one supplied by the manufacturer. this is quite important as allowing too much current through a circuit board can cause damage to the board and they usually are not cheap.

usually my first step in assisting a customer with blown fuses is to disconnect unit from power and physically inspect each wire from componnent to board. in pellet stoves there are "hot spots" which if a wire were to come into contact with could melt the casing of the wire and allow it to ground to the chassis of the unit. usually manufacturers will have restraints to prevent these wires from touching these hot spots but ocasionally they may still manage to get to them.

any troubleshooting beyond this should be performed by a technician or the owner should be at least guided by a tech in further troubleshooting.

remember also, while 110/60 will generally not kill you , it will "piss you off" at the speed of light, always doublecheck with each troubleshooting step that power is not connected with the unit

 

[WoodPorn]

Not always true. Fuses can, under some circumstances, fatigue from use. That being said, it is always wise to err on the side of safety and investigate the cause of failure before replacing a fuse.
Replacing a fuse with a larger size is like deciding that you know more about the circuit than the Engineers that designed the product. It just ain't so.
This is another circumstance where you can void the agency certification of the design and, therefore, be the cause of a fire. Insurance companies take a dim view of that behavior.

Fuses are to be sized and coordinated to allow for inrush, fatigue should not be a factor.

 

[WoodPorn]

remember also, while 110/60 will generally not kill you

I hate to contradict you Mike, 110 is the leading killer (as it is most common).
As an Electrician, I can't let that one ride

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I hate to contradict you Mike, 110 is the leading killer (as it is most common).
As an Electrician, I can't let that one ride

yeah, your right, though if i had a nickle for every time one of these stoves had popped me for being stupid and not having the unit unplugged while i was working on it i'd be a rich man by now. still it is important to ensure that the unit is unplugged any time you are doing anything inside of it that has to do with proximity to wiring

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Bear gets popcorn and a brew, awaiting the possible ensuing exchange between an EE and an Electrician on fuses.

Mike,

I'm siding with WoodPorn on the comment you made about the 110/60, the utility companies usually take great pains in warn people to avoid down lines and keeping metal ladders away from all power lines feeding your house, as do electronics makers.

I'll agree that it will "piss you off" when you get zapped in a non lethal manner.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Fuses are to be sized and coordinated to allow for inrush, fatigue should not be a factor.

I been holding back.

Eric

 

[Harvey Schneider]

I hate to contradict you Mike, 110 is the leading killer (as it is most common).
As an Electrician, I can't let that one ride

110/60 is more dangerous than 240/60, 220/50 or DC. The only reason we have it is that Nicola Tesla decided that it is the ideal compromise for power transmission and utilization. DC and the higher Voltages effectively clamp muscles in a contracted state and when you fall over the muscles resume working (most of the time). 110/60 is more likely than the others to put your heart in a fibrillation, whether you fall over or not. Of course it depends on the shock pathway. Any shock that passes a current through your heart (right hand to left foot for instance) puts you at risk. A shock from right hand to right wrist will just piss you off.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Just for giggles I'll toss out repeated expansion and contraction related to temperature changes.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Just for giggles I'll toss out repeated expansion and contraction related to temperature changes.

That would be the primary cause of fuse fatigue. Fast fuses suffer from this with short duration pulsed loads, but medium delay and slow blow shouldn't be bothered by this unless the design is right against the margins of the fuse rating.
Of course turning on a 300W igniter for ten minutes and then turning it off for hours is not being kind to the fuse. Fuses are really low value wire resistors that melt when they get too hot. Drastically changing loads cause them to heat up and cool down. The cycle causes mechanical fatigue of the resistance wire we call a fuse.

 

[WoodPorn]

Oh jeez here we go....

Thanks Bear

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I am no where the electrical skills of you fast talkers big word users but everything I was taught about fuses related to pellet stoves, there is no such thing as fuse "fatigue".

Eric

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

And what would happen inside the shell of a heating device if it was repeatedly changing temperature due to temperature based t-stat calls?

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I have been on numerous service calls over the past 7 years of working on pellet stoves and have yet to have a "worn out" or "fatigue" fuse without a problem to make the fuse fail. There is a first for everything I guess.

Eric

 

[WoodPorn]

That would be the primary cause of fuse fatigue. Fast fuses suffer from this with short duration pulsed loads, but medium delay and slow blow shouldn't be bothered by this unless the design is right against the margins of the fuse rating.
Of course turning on a 300W igniter for ten minutes and then turning it off for hours is not being kind to the fuse. Fuses are really low value wire resistors that melt when they get too hot. Drastically changing loads cause them to heat up and cool down. The cycle causes mechanical fatigue of the resistance wire we call a fuse.

If this is the case,then why would a fuse (time delay for instance) rated at 15a, blow out before a wire rated for the same?
A fuse rated at 15 a is not going to blow at 15a unless it is an instantaneous.
An instantaneous fuse rated at 15a is in place to protect a load WELL under 15a, again fatigue should not be a factor.

 

[WoodPorn]

And what would happen inside the shell of a heating device if it was repeatedly changing temperature due to temperature based t-stat calls?

STOP IT ur killin me

 

[saladdin]

110/60 is more dangerous than 240/60, 220/50 or DC. The only reason we have it is that Nicola Tesla decided that it is the ideal compromise for power transmission and utilization. DC and the higher Voltages effectively clamp muscles in a contracted state and when you fall over the muscles resume working (most of the time). 110/60 is more likely than the others to put your heart in a fibrillation, whether you fall over or not. Of course it depends on the shock pathway. Any shock that passes a current through your heart (right hand to left foot for instance) puts you at risk. A shock from right hand to right wrist will just piss you off.

That Tesla dude was one smart cookie. Doesn't get anywhere the credit he should. On a Mt. Rushmore of absolute geniuses his face would be there.

 

[WoodPorn]

I thought Edison invented electricity

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

WoodPorn,

Folks need to be careful equating causes for fuses to blow to just too much juice through the device.

They are subject to non power related failure modes exactly like other items.

Any failure mode a fuse undergoes is going to eventually result in it being "blown" in the common sense view of a fuse that no longer allows current to flow through it. A better description in some cases is it is broken.

 

[SXIPro]

I thought it was amperge that killed you, not voltage.
Also, theoretically, couldn't constant vibration cause a fuse to fail before it's time? (Basic glass fuses, I mean)

 

[kinsmanstoves]

It is not a power surge for the household current to blow a fuse it is the stove components drawing to much amps such as an igniter grounding out (igniter failure) or a blower shorting out, am I correct?

Eric

 

[Eatonpcat]

Tesla...I know them, They toured with Alice Cooper in the 80's!!

I think I remember a fuse blowing during the concert, not sure if it was fatigue or not!

 

[Delta-T]

...everytime a fuse blows an angel gets its wings.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Tesla...I know them, They toured with Alice Cooper in the 80's!!

I think I remember a fuse blowing during the concert, not sure if it was fatigue or not!

Oh dear I see where this is going.... Just like the internet. You can be looking up cyber schools for the kids and within three click be on a hardcore porn site. Very similar here.

Eric