Oil Savings

[chazcarr]

I think you need to correct your data by using the degree days per month or year to see what you are spending relative to the out door temperature. If one year has 20% more or less degree days your energy use should reflect this. Your oil company should have this data. If they do not they are less than professional though there are plenty that deliver at fixed times to avoid buying the equipment to generate the data. Possibly there are inexpensive weather stations that will record the data for you.

I can look into that easily. My deliveries of oil are actually based on degree days and the data is posted.
I will see if I have that data going far enough back.

It is a good point too, as last year was so warm, I didn't even use the stove much at all while this year it is just constantly going.

 

[chazcarr]

It is also a good idea to insulate the sill plate , where the house meets the basement . If you google sill plate insulation you should get plenty of info

Done and done. It was actually insulated when I moved in because the basement was finished.

 

[DMbekus]

It is nice to see when the stove actually pays for itself isn't it.

yes, I'm very pleased. And it's the beats the hell out solar, a friend of mine spent $30,000.00 on panels and the whole 9 yards , his breakeven - maybe never, my breakeven could be 6 months- at most a year and half.

 

[NortheastAl]

yes, I'm very pleased. And it's the beats the hell out solar, a friend of mine spent $30,000.00 on panels and the whole 9 yards , his breakeven - maybe never, my breakeven could be 6 months- at most a year and half.

The savings on my oil bill will pay for my complete new install in less than two years. And that includes buying wood this first season. I don't understand why some don't even consider going to a wood burner.

 

[ddahlgren]

The savings on my oil bill will pay for my complete new install in less than two years. And that includes buying wood this first season. I don't understand why some don't even consider going to a wood burner.

Some I think they consider it a lot of work. Stacking firewood is not my idea of an enyoyable afternoon. Some are afraid they will burn their house down. Others I think are a bit sensitive to the mess. No matter how careful you are it can generate some dust and require more frequent cleaning.

 

[HomeBruin]

OMG I almost had a heart attack reading you had a 5 yr oil contract. Here's what I did when I made the mistake of locking in a price for one year, then the prices fell drastically: I began using wood as much as possible, so everytime they delivered oil, it was a very small amount. I then complained about the excessive monthy deliveries and how it is hard on my driveway, so they agreed to decrease delivery frequency. I also told them I am mainly heating with wood now. Then I started burning more oil, but would call a discount oil place for a delivery when I got down to the 150g minimum delivery. When the expensive place finally came, they could only deliver 30 or 40 gallons, which I explained by telling them I was burning wood primarily. The expensive place came even less often then, until the contract expired, and I gave them the boot. It is cheaper to shop for deals on oil and hire an independent HVAC guy to service your equipment then go with a full service company.

Btw, I am sort of a weather nut and suggest you put the savings into buying a Davis weatherstation, the software will calculate heating/cooling degree days. If you really like graphing things, you'll love the weatherstation. Also, I was looking into a Brultech home energy monitor to track electricity use, but it is still not turnkey, and you have to be somewhat of a computer geek to set it up properly.

 

[ddahlgren]

If you do a search on Google at least in CT and look for retail fuel oil prices CT there is a state run web site with a weekly update of retail fuel oil prices by county with high low and average so when you are shopping for a load you know what a deal actually is.

 

[NortheastAl]

Some I think they consider it a lot of work. Stacking firewood is not my idea of an enyoyable afternoon. Some are afraid they will burn their house down. Others I think are a bit sensitive to the mess. No matter how careful you are it can generate some dust and require more frequent cleaning.

I can appreciate those arguments, but so many complain about the high price of oil that I still don't get why more aren't doing what we do.

I just checked, and the local cash price for a gallon of #2 heating oil is $3.88.9. It was $3.69.9 just a couple days ago. Most in the northeast will spend over $3000 to heat their home this winter with oil. Such a shame.

 

[ddahlgren]

I can appreciate those arguments, but so many complain about the high price of oil that I still don't get why more aren't doing what we do.

I just checked, and the local cash price for a gallon of #2 heating oil is $3.88.9. It was $3.69.9 just a couple days ago. Most in the northeast will spend over $3000 to heat their home this winter with oil. Such a shame.

I agree completely! My daughter asked me what I wanted for my birthday coming up in a few weeks. i told her I lusted for a cord 4 year seasoned oak kept in a proper woodshed! lol.. I have a neighbor that comes over from time to time to sit on the couch where the stove is and read a book..I wish I had a place in my shop for a stove. just ordered 125 gallons for the shop furnace and paid 3.59 that is 448.75 enough for 2 1/2 cords of seasoned wood.

 

[chazcarr]

After thinking I had insulated enough, I had one more thought that could almost eliminate the oil man completely. Of he can't deliver oil at all, then he will let me out of this contract early. (only a year left anyways).

My thought it that I need to be able to heat my hot water with electricity and oil.
Has anyone done this and have some kind of recommendation on a set up?

I could go to all electricity, but I don't think my generator could handle that in a total power failure that we seem to get every year here in CT.

 

[KaptJaq]

My thought it that I need to be able to heat my hot water with electricity and oil. Has anyone done this and have some kind of recommendation on a set up?

How do you heat the hot water now? Is it a stand-alone oil fire water tank? Do you have a coil in your heating boiler?

A fried had a DHW coil in his heating boiler and a 40 gallon storage tank. When the tank failed he replaced it with an electric 40 gallon water heater. He connected the loop to his boiler. When his boiler is turned on he heats the water via the coil in the boiler. During the summer he shuts down the boiler completely and uses the electric coil in the tank. The thermostat on the boiler is set to 130°, the electric water heater is set to 120°. If the boiler can't keep up the electric helps during the winter. In the summer , when the boiler is off, the electric does the heating. In your case set the electric higher than the oil so your primary would be the electric coil...

Check local codes before you do this...

KaptJaq

 

[chazcarr]

How do you heat the hot water now? Is it a stand-alone oil fire water tank? Do you have a coil in your heating boiler?

A fried had a DHW coil in his heating boiler and a 40 gallon storage tank. When the tank failed he replaced it with an electric 40 gallon water heater. He connected the loop to his boiler. When his boiler is turned on he heats the water via the coil in the boiler. During the summer he shuts down the boiler completely and uses the electric coil in the tank. The thermostat on the boiler is set to 130°, the electric water heater is set to 120°. If the boiler can't keep up the electric helps during the winter. In the summer , when the boiler is off, the electric does the heating. In your case set the electric higher than the oil so your primary would be the electric coil...

Check local codes before you do this...

KaptJaq

IT is a coil in from the oil burner with a 60 gallon tank.
It is a new tank too, only a year old. I guess I would need to buy a new one that can handle oil and electric, or can these be modified?

 

[KaptJaq]

I guess I would need to buy a new one that can handle oil and electric, or can these be modified?

A storage tank usually cannot be modified. AFAIK there are no tanks that do oil/electric. You buy an electric DHW tank with an integral electric heating coil. You attach the loop/circulator pump that heats water via an instant hot water coil for your current storage tank to the electric's tank. You add an adjustable snap disk to the electric tank to start the circulator between it and the boiler. If you are not sure, check with a plumber.

If your storage tank is new the payback will be pretty long.

KaptJaq

 

[ddahlgren]

IT is a coil in from the oil burner with a 60 gallon tank.
It is a new tank too, only a year old. I guess I would need to buy a new one that can handle oil and electric, or can these be modified?

Why such a big tank? The standby losses have to be staggering to be honest. In general the tank-less heater is a big loser as well. It means the temp of the boiler has to be 130 degrees 24/7 another big loser as that heat is going up the chimney 24/7. I have a steel cold start boiler, Energy Kinetics system 2000, that only holds 5 gallons of water and when it is off it is off it does not try to maintain any particular temperature so zero standby loss and being steel it heats very quickly.

 

[KaptJaq]

Why such a big tank? The standby losses have to be staggering to be honest

I don't know about the OP but when three of my children are taking showers at the same time the instant hot water coil cannot keep up. During the winter the incoming water hovers around 34° to 38° F. The tank of hot water gives a buffer so they can all take their showers and get out of the house on time. My tank is very well insulated, standby losses are minimal.

KaptJaq

 

[Machria]

Yea, todays hot water heaters have very little "standby loss". My 75 gallon electric water heater stays HOT for weeks with it turned off.

 

[ddahlgren]

I hear you there with the kids my 2 used to spend what seemed like hours in the shower..LOL.. Being single now the hot water is available for 1 hour a day to take a shower and run the dishwasher in the early am after that off all day until 5 am the next morning. I have a 30 gallon tank that stays more than warm enough to wash hands or rinse dishes off. A restrictor in the shower head makes a very big difference as well.

 

[BobUrban]

WOW - 5 years is rediculous but that has been hammered already. Good on you for beating the "man" any way you can!!

When I first moved into my current place it was the first time I was on propane and not natural gas. That fall I called the company that was on the side of my tank and took their 1yr price lock. Well, when it neared a yr later I called to lock in again and they said my old contract had expired??? Small print - it did not go 365 from the day I signed but was on a 12 month rotating basis from when they start all their contracts in the spring - ARGGG!! They then proceeded to gouge me at DBL or TPL the going rate per gallon. I quickly called another company that replaced my tank and my contract.

Subsequently the following spring I received a letter from the original company stating they had to pay up due to a class action law suite. Evidently I was not the only one caught in this price scam and they payed heavenly. I received a 700.00 check for the price difference per gallon. The funny part: laughable really - part of the letter was an offer for greater savings if I would return to their company and sign another contract??? I politely declined!!

Currently I beat back the cold with more wood in a "not so tight" home but will be pecking away at insulating better as I go. My propane consumption is negligable at maybe 200.00 per year and that is range, dryer and hot water heater. If I never left town in the winter it would be closer to $50.00 and once my dryer and water heater die I will go to electric but I love my gas stove too much to eliminate that. Prior to the wood stove I was spending closer to $2000.00 on propane anually so the break even has been met in two seasons for me.

 

[ddahlgren]

Love my gas stove as well and it uses so little gas a tank lasts a year. Oven is electric so the big user electric. We have no power for over a week for the last few years with late fall storms so the gas cook top a life saver there.

 

[chazcarr]

Why such a big tank? The standby losses have to be staggering to be honest. In general the tank-less heater is a big loser as well. It means the temp of the boiler has to be 130 degrees 24/7 another big loser as that heat is going up the chimney 24/7. I have a steel cold start boiler, Energy Kinetics system 2000, that only holds 5 gallons of water and when it is off it is off it does not try to maintain any particular temperature so zero standby loss and being steel it heats very quickly.

I have a Peerless water tank, see the specs here (It is the "57 gal size). Claims to lose only half a degree an hour.
I could have swore I saw someone add an electric coil into this thing to minimize the oil use. Can't find anything on it now.

Also, like the others, a lot of hot water use at my house around the 7am hour.

 

[ddahlgren]

I have a Peerless water tank, see the specs here (It is the "57 gal size). Claims to lose only half a degree an hour.
I could have swore I saw someone add an electric coil into this thing to minimize the oil use. Can't find anything on it now.

Also, like the others, a lot of hot water use at my house around the 7am hour.

Wow that is very cool! When it comes time to replace my storage tank will have to look at them. If their electric water heaters are that good it could be a plus. Just pipe it up like my storage tank is now and wire it up.

 

[HotCoals]

I don' burn oil..all e-house.
700-800 in wood..Electric would be 4 times that...heat pump and e-furnace.

 

[KaptJaq]

This thread should probably be moved to the DIY forum.

Just pipe it up like my storage tank is now and wire it up.

There are two types of in-direct fired hot water storage systems. One is compatible with an electric water heater, the other is not. The compatible one uses an instant hot water coil in the boiler. Potable water passes through the coil in the boiler, is heated, and returned to the storage tank. In this case the storage tank can also have an electric coil to heat water.

The other type of in-direct fired hot water storage system has the heat exchanger coil in the water tank. An additional heating zone is added to the boiler. The hot water from the boiler goes through the coil in the storage tank to heat the water in the tank. This type tank is not compatible with an electric coil in the storage tank.

As always, check with local code before modifying your water heating system.

KaptJaq

 

[chazcarr]

This thread should probably be moved to the DIY forum.



There are two types of in-direct fired hot water storage systems. One is compatible with an electric water heater, the other is not. The compatible one uses an instant hot water coil in the boiler. Potable water passes through the coil in the boiler, is heated, and returned to the storage tank. In this case the storage tank can also have an electric coil to heat water.

The other type of in-direct fired hot water storage system has the heat exchanger coil in the water tank. An additional heating zone is added to the boiler. The hot water from the boiler goes through the coil in the storage tank to heat the water in the tank. This type tank is not compatible with an electric coil in the storage tank.

As always, check with local code before modifying your water heating system.

KaptJaq

Well shoot... I have the one that is non-compatible.

 

[TheMightyMoe]

Well shoot... I have the one that is non-compatible.

If you can plumb in a electric water heater, you are good to go to be off oil.

I've only seen/heard of this up here but...

If space is a issue.

You can hook up a small electric water heater (Little 5 gallon etc...) with a decent size element and use a pump to circulate through your domestic storage. (All domestic water connections) Just requires a couple relays and some plumbing.

Then you can be completely off oil.