RIFENG MANIFOLD

[DaBackBurner]

finally got the manifold and pex all piped in. plans to cut into the fossil boiler this week and make provisions for the wood boiler while i am drained down. the instructions for the manifold are like brail but after second guessing myself for a couple days, it appears i have my supply and returns hooked up backwards. my thoughts were that the flow gauges would be on the return side but i am mistaken????? easy fix though, i think i can swap the manifold tubes top to bottom and all should be good.....

In physics a push or a pull is a force. I'd say it doesn't usually matter where the pump is in the circuit. Looking at your mixing and manifold board what I would do is to put a spring check valve in your plumbing. If the pump is on the hot side and pushing toward the supply manifold, then a check valve should be placed so that it checks the possible reverse flow through the cold input to the Tekmar. Put a second check valve(swing check) in the horizontal line between the supply manifold and the input T from the Tekmar. Maybe it's too late at night and I can't understand the plumbing but that would be an easy fix.

My pushing and pulling reference probably wasn't the best terminology as the force is a force. I should be saying flow. Check valves will work as well. I think most pro's if they had their preference and space limitations were not an issue etc. etc. would prefer to pump vertically up for better air removal.

 

[91LMS]

i did talk to a plumber/friend (where the hell was he this weekend, lol) he did say that it should pull through the valve also and to put a swing check valve on the cold side of the valve. so do i cut this thing apart, move the valve and put a swing check in the cold side to the mixing valve or do i just put a couple swing check valves in???

 

[DaBackBurner]

As long as the checks don't create any undue head pressure I can't see why not to use them. If it were me I would cut it apart put the mixing assemply on the vertical portion of the piping, and put my pump on the return side pumping up (in your case the right vertical pipe) as long as I was pumping away from my pressure tank, which I have no idea where its located in your system. Thats just me though, if your plumbing friend is willing to come out and take a peak it can make all the difference in the world to have a pro 'see'. My comments were only in respect to the picture I saw...and I thought I saw something not quite right.

(Edit: And who knows, after a beer or two, he may see something else that doesn't look quite right.)

 

[91LMS]

the pressure tank is about 10-12 feet away at the boiler where the lh vertical pipe will t into my boiler. i am assuming you are talking about the expansion tank??? i dont have a hot water pressure tank. i was planning on just one swing check on the mix leg to the valve. thanks a bunch for all that are giving advice or insight. i greatly appreciate the help and glad that i posted my pic. kick in the ding ding cuz i was pretty proud but more than happy to get this straightened out now.

my pump will be getting mixed water at about 140 deg so i didnt think it would bother on the hot side....

 

[SmokeEater]

it does matter which way its installed. the pumps axle should stay horizontal. The grundfoss comes with a piece of paper denoting pump orientation . there are three sketches of which way it can be orientated 2 with check marks and 1 with an X. the x has it with the pump shaft vertical
Go to this link and scroll down to page 22

http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/download.nsf/Pages/DB9E15987978351F88256C4E006EA652/$File/L-UP-PG-001.pdf

Sorry to DaBackBurner and Huffdawg, My brain was "mixing" the word position up with location. My apologies. In 91LMS's solution, I do think that check valves in the right location will work. Also, I agree, the pump shaft should be mounted horizontally.

 

[91LMS]

even still with swing checks installed if i am pushing water at the valve and the manifold it wont mix properly right? it would prevent flow from bypassing the manifold and returning to the boiler but would it actually "draw" the return water into the return side of the valve to mix with hot? that still seems to be a problem without moving the valve given the higher resistance to flow with the radiant loops as apposed to the ease of bypassing via the 1" copper.

 

[DaBackBurner]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. You won't achieve proper mixing unless your distribution pump is on the right side of your mixing valve pumping into the supply manifold or the right of the 'T', between that and the return side of the manifold pumping away from the manifold, per your picture. But you said your expansion tank is on your supply side fairly close (the side with the pump) so I would pump away from the nearest point of pressure introduction, hence the supply side in your case. Flow from the supply can then mix with the return from your distribution manifold through the mixing valve, hence mixing. If your pump is flowing into the mixing valve I just don't see how it can mix properly with or without check valves, but maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe there is a pro or two that could interject.

 

[huffdawg]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/85987/

Heres I link scroll to the bottom and therre is a pic. of my infloor circ and mixing valve.
the top is supply and the bottom is return

Huff

 

[Willman]

Heres a pic of what your trying to do.
http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/heatingproducts/radiantheating/housepex_mixing_module_main.asp

 

[91LMS]

well, she's fixed! i appreciate the insight from all of you, could have been really disappointed when i put the radiant to use had i not corrected this. now to get it tied into the fossil boiler and get my wood boiler plumbed up and online!

 

[DaBackBurner]

Nice! Looks like it was a 6-pack job to me.

 

[huffdawg]

Now your cooking with gas. Looks good. Would took me a least a case of American beer. Must not be online right now ,valve is shut off.

Huff

 

[91LMS]

not online, gonna take the day off friday and drain my system down and get the radiant online. all of a six pack job, plus the couple while cleaning up, then a couple to admire the corrections, and and and, lol. i actually think it looks better now than my origanol design. now just to drink heavy and hope for the best in getting all the air out.

 

[Jwson1]

Did the setup work well for you? I'm working on putting radiant heat on the first floor and was going to use your pic to do mine.

 

[91LMS]

works great, no issues

mine is actually 3 differant zones powered by the actuators. if you dont have multiple zones it will be cheaper as you wont need the actuators and just keep the valves open manually. i do wish that my actuators had end switches so that i could have wired to turn the pump on once open.

 

[Morgan]

As confirmed by others, reposition the pump so it pulls through the 3way valve. You can also buy an actuator for your Tekmar valve and hook it up to an outdoor air sensor, this would modulate the valve based on outdoor air temp. I also like having thermometers installed on supply and return so I can keep an eye on what's happening, I think that is what I see at the supply and return valves, if not I would consider adding them.

 

[91LMS]

As confirmed by others, reposition the pump so it pulls through the 3way valve. You can also buy an actuator for your Tekmar valve and hook it up to an outdoor air sensor, this would modulate the valve based on outdoor air temp. I also like having thermometers installed on supply and return so I can keep an eye on what's happening, I think that is what I see at the supply and return valves, if not I would consider adding them.

pump does pull through the valve, thanks to the heads up of the folks on here prior to me filling the system with water. didnt realize there was a actuator for the tekmar. i will look into that for sure. right now its modulated with beer in hand while i sit in a chair and monitor boiler and radiant temps...