Storage

[chewy]

Which would you rather have? 1 1000gal propane tank or 2 500s? Also thoughts on 1000 gallons horizontal and 500 vertical?

Erin

 

[stee6043]

Well all things being equal you're going to save money on plumbing if you only have one tank. So sure - if I had the room I would have gone with a single 1000 gallon unit...

 

[arngnick]

Vertical tanks will likely be higher than the boiler allowing the water to thermosiphon better plus the verical tanks will have less of a foorprint. How about a 1000gal vertical?

 

[Floydian]

I don't really see any advantage to adding another 1000 gallons when you already have 15,000.

Seriously, I have a horizontal 1000 gallon tank and it's fine but my first choice would be vertical tanks the reasons arngnick mentions.

Noah

 

[chewy]

I don't really see any advantage to adding another 1000 gallons when you already have 15,000.

Seriously, I have a horizontal 1000 gallon tank and it's fine but my first choice would be vertical tanks the reasons arngnick mentions.



My goal is to add 1000gals a year so in 15 years ill have 30000 gals of storage so ill only have one fire a month!!

On a serious note, after watching Craigslist for a while now with no luck there are 2 500 gal tanks and a 1000 forsale. All three from different sellers. The 500s are 400$ each and not sure yet on price of the 1000.

I think I read somewhere the 1000 gal tanks are 13'. I guess I could go vert with it since I'm going to build a boiler room.

Erin

Noah

 

[chewy]

Not sure how that happened.

 

[arngnick]

From what I know 1000gal tanks are around 16' so you should just hire a crane. You are going to have one hell of a fire every month!

 

[Coal Reaper]

500gals is 13'x31" diameter (for long, skinny type. i think more common? is 11'x36". i say this because the place i got mine from only had 3 skinny and maybe 100 short ones), 1000 is 16'x41". i had the same questions when i was looking for tanks. definitely vertical over horizontal if you have the headroom and a thick enough slab to support the smaller footprint. the two 500s isnt all the much more plumbing than one tank. my main deciding factor was that two 500s were $200 less than one 1000. at 950#'s each, 500s were enough fun for me to be moving around. 1000 gallon tank is a serious piece'o'metal...

 

[arngnick]

They also make a stubby 500 that is 105"

 

[chewy]

There is also a 100 gal tank local. Would this be ok for expansion?

I already have 2000 gal expansion for my 15000, but I think I should add a little more

Erin

 

[JP11]

I wanna say my 500s were 38" by about 9'6" or a bit more. I had 10'4" to the bottom of my trusses, and they are standing in there. Including feet to raise them enough to get an elbow on the drain.

JP

 

[bioman]

There is also a 100 gal tank local. Would this be ok for expansion?

I already have 2000 gal expansion for my 15000, but I think I should add a little more

Erin

I would think a 5 gal bucket would work in your case !

 

[chewy]

I guess another 20 5 gal buckets won't hurt, I already have 3,000!!

 

[dogwood]

Chewy, I would think it would be unsafe (or at least crazy) to stack a 16 foot propane tank filled with well over 8000 lbs of water on end, no matter how well you secure it. I've been in three earthquakes in my life, some in unlikely locales: Stuttgart,Germany, Seattle and most recently northern Virginia a year or so ago. God only knows what would happen to an upended tank in that circumstance.

Mike

 

[maple1]

I think it would most likely come down to the space you have to put them in?

I like the relative stability of tanks sitting horizontally. I think 500's are around 36" x 9 1/2' long. Standing those up requires lots of headroom (i.e. more than the 'standard' 8 ft). If you go for the 1000, try to get it sitting up on something to get it as high as you can. If stacking 500's, that should take care of itself. I guess my moral is get the top of whatever storage you do get as high as you can comfortably get it.

 

[chewy]

There will be no way to do the 1000 gal tank vertical for me after thinking about it. It would add to much ceiling height for my building and would add more expense insulating the side walls. If I can get the 1000 gal tank for around 500$ (i havent heard back from the guy so it may already be sold) ill get it and run it horizontal. Another thing I might do is call the fertilizer co my dad uses and see if they have any bad anhydrous tanks for sale.

Erin

 

[maple1]

Don't ask for a 'bad' one - hard to say what you'd get. 'Discontinued'?. But yes from what I've heard those are good tanks if you can find them - and they sometimes come with a free trailer.

 

[chewy]

Good point, I'll see what I can come up with.

Ty
Erin

 

[chewy]

Dad just got off the phone with the fert guy and they have ten tanks right now for sale at scrap price!! At this price I guess I'll go horizontal.

Now, if I go with 2000 gal of storage should I size my boiler for my storage? Or would 2000 be overkill?

Erin

 

[Floydian]

What is your total heat load? And what is the lowest supply temp your heating system can utilize? I think these are the biggest factors when sizing storage.

Now, if I go with 2000 gal of storage should I size my boiler for my storage? Or would 2000 be overkill?

Yeah, you are on the right track here, IMO. Size the boiler to the storage but also keep in mind how much of the boiler's output has to cover the heat load, with the remainder going to storage.

With 2000 gallons I would think you would want a 200k btu/hr boiler for a reasonable recharge rate, but again it really comes down the heat load calcs.

What boilers are on your short list?

Noah

 

[Floydian]

BTW, I have a 1000 gal anhydrous ammonia tank. Rated to 250 psi, 3/8" domed ends, 5/16" body and weighs 2400 lbs

Noah

 

[mikefrommaine]

I have a 200k boiler, burn mostly pine, and 1000 gallons of storage. I kind of wish I had another 500 gallons. If I was burning hardwood I might think 2000 gallons would be a good match.

 

[chewy]

What is your total heat load? And what is the lowest supply temp your heating system can utilize? I think these are the biggest factors when sizing storage.



Yeah, you are on the right track here, IMO. Size the boiler to the storage but also keep in mind how much of the boiler's output has to cover the heat load, with the remainder going to storage.

With 2000 gallons I would think you would want a 200k btu/hr boiler for a reasonable recharge rate, but again it really comes down the heat load calcs.

What boilers are on your short list?

Noah

My heat load for the house is 68kbtu and shop is 30kbtu.

my list in no particular order

varm
effecta
vigas
attack

For right now i only have wta heat exchangers for both house and shop, so i wont be able to cash in on lower temps.

erin

 

[goosegunner]

My heat load is 45K at -15 F design temp. We have only come close to design temp a few times in the 2 years that I have been running my 1000 gallons of storage. At that heat load I am just a little short on storage of what I would like. With your heat load I think 1000 might be a little light.

Any reason why Froling is not on the list?

With the variable output would be nice with forced air heat exchangers. You could extend the length of the burn and reduce the amount of time needed to run on storage.

Also remember with storage and forced air exchangers at some point you return water to the bottom of the tank that can be significantly warmer than water at the bottom of the tank. A smaller buffer tank would be nice to make sure and use all available heat from water before returning it to storage.

gg

 

[chewy]

My heat load is 45K at -15 F design temp. We have only come close to design temp a few times in the 2 years that I have been running my 1000 gallons of storage. At that heat load I am just a little short on storage of what I would like. With your heat load I think 1000 might be a little light.

Any reason why Froling is not on the list?

With the variable output would be nice with forced air heat exchangers. You could extend the length of the burn and reduce the amount of time needed to run on storage.

Also remember with storage and forced air exchangers at some point you return water to the bottom of the tank that can be significantly warmer than water at the bottom of the tank. A smaller buffer tank would be nice to make sure and use all available heat from water before returning it to storage.

gg

I didn't realize the froling could do that. Price is the the reason it's not on the list. My thoughts right now are going with the lower priced unit and applying the savings eventually to panel rads in my house.

Note: I have not ruled anything out at this point and my mind changes daily. The froling would be awesome to have as would any of the mentioned boilers. The choice is a hard one to make.

Erin