Englander 30 First Fire Issue

[blades]

Closing the door and fire goes out- flue isn't hot enough to provide good draft, damp or wet wood will actually put itself out in an enclosed environment like the stove, insufficent coals or not enough time allowed for flue to get a good start.. If you have really dry wood it doesn't take that much to get her rolling but stuffing 4-6" splits in there and expecting it to light up like a gas stove just isn't how it works, make of stove not withstanding. If the wood is above the proper moisture content you likely will have just as much trouble getting the furnace model going. Learning curves are tough, even worse when you ignore the basics. Education can be painful.

 

[blades]

How hot should the stove be? In the current weather pattern I have here ( roughly 35 to 50 degs range). I can get a small load (3 or 4, 3" ish splits of silver maple) fired off and the coals will provide enough residual heat most of the day. The stove may only peak at 400 but will sit at around 200 for quite awhile and will still be quit warm to the touch some 6 hours later. House in mid 70's, 1960 2000sq ft ranch not best insulation wise either, but working on it. This morning I put a full mixed load Sugar maple Elm and some Silver maple in the unit, it was a round 400 when I left for the day with full secondaries running and the damper control apx 90% closed. when I get back home at about the 12 hr mark there will be coals enough to do a restart and the stove will still be warm to slightly unpleasant to lean on for any extend time period. Considering the temps out side (50ish) I expect that the house will still be in the mid 70's. When I get into the real winter I can generally expect to stay above 65 at the end of 10 or so hours. Now if we are down in the sub zero bracket the NG furnace is going to kick in at 65 deg. Most of the time I beat it to the punch if I get back inside that10 hr frame. This all fuel dependant though.

 

[eclecticcottage]

How hot should the stove be? In the current weather pattern I have here ( roughly 35 to 50 degs range). I can get a small load (3 or 4, 3" ish splits of silver maple) fired off and the coals will provide enough residual heat most of the day. The stove may only peak at 400 but will sit at around 200 for quite awhile and will still be quit warm to the touch some 6 hours later. House in mid 70's, 1960 2000sq ft ranch not best insulation wise either, but working on it. This morning I put a full mixed load Sugar maple Elm and some Silver maple in the unit, it was a round 400 when I left for the day with full secondaries running and the damper control apx 90% closed. when I get back home at about the 12 hr mark there will be coals enough to do a restart and the stove will still be warm to slightly unpleasant to lean on for any extend time period. Considering the temps out side (50ish) I expect that the house will still be in the mid 70's. When I get into the real winter I can generally expect to stay above 65 at the end of 10 or so hours. Now if we are down in the sub zero bracket the NG furnace is going to kick in at 65 deg. Most of the time I beat it to the punch if I get back inside that 10 hr frame. This all fuel dependant though.

Damn, ours runs WAY warmer. Usually cruises above 500 a least. It'll hit 750 then settle back down to about 550-650 to cruise. Right now it's cruising at 500 and about 2 hours into a small reload with 3 splits of pine, with several hours left to go.

 

[brenndatomu]

Man, I just finished reading todays fun and festivitys, wow! Ok, couple thoughts here. I could be your wood, but, you said that it flames up when you put it in, then dies down after a bit, doesn't sound like wet wood to me. Wet wood usually takes a while to get fired up. Plus you said it took off with the ash drawer cracked. I'm thinking like a couple of these other guys are, linkage unhooked or something. I'd check to make sure there is nothing in any of the primary air holes too. There was some packaging in mine!(foam) Or could it be an errant piece of packing tape? I'm not that familiar with this stove, can someone who has one tell him where to check?
Also, please don't return your stove yet, you haven't proved anything is wrong with it yet, heck, it may be your chimney, and NO the furnace will not do any better with wet wood! It may burn it, but it still wont make any HEAT, and that is your current problem, so why go to all the work of hauling that thing back out, a new one back in and pizzin off the local HD manager at you?! Calm down, relax, and let us help you logically troubleshoot this problem with you. My first few fires in my recently installed new stove didn't go very well either, and I've heated with wood for 4-5 years now, so have faith, this is a stove with a great reputation, ya gots a whole team of experts on the job here, give this a bit of time to get worked out, we'll have ya standing around in front of open windows in your underwear to cool down!
If you are going to the hardware store, get two things, 1. get that cheap piece of 6" single wall pipe to extend your chimney (I'd get a 5 footer)(cheap galvanized duct pipe, not black stove pipe) to explore the low draft possibility (BTW, have you tried taking the rain cap off the chimney? Some have a crappy design, cut your draft way down!) 2. get a couple packs of ECO bricks to test the wet wood theory,throw a couple bricks in with your next wood load, if it takes off hot, then you know it is wet wood! Still need to getcha a moisture meter though, they're handy!

Edit: I just looked at the owners manual, saw top of first page: Do not return to dealer if you have problems, call customer service 1-800-245-6489, or better yet, PM the previously mentioned Englander rep that is on here.
Also, another thought, I have read here about people having baffle plates and baffle blankets out of place from shipping, causing major issues, maybe you need to let 'er get cold and check to make sure that things are in their proper place.

 

[rdust]

For what it is worth several people a year have this same problem moving to EPA stoves. And all suspect that the primary air control is broken and it never is.

Yep this is the standard, my wood is fine, my chimney is fine, my brand new stove must be broke thread.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Hey brenndatomu. I am thinking that since the furnace is not epa and I can let more air in the stove through top and bottom damper I will be better off. Also, the bigger blower will move the heat easier so I can damper it down. I should of went with this in the first place I let the phrase save on wood get in my way.

Sorry to sound like another one of those guys and if I am I apologize rdust. But it is cold outside I got alot of wood and house is being heated with oil right now just frustrated. Being a newbie that could be it but I no that this is not going to work.

Also everyone, I moved the damper real slow and then fast I do feel some tension but it is not much I did hear a scrape. So I am going to assume it is okay but I can not see it to check it.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Yup, the actual stove plays a smaller part in burn quality/time and heat output than most people realize. With good wood and a good draft, nearly any secondary and/or cat stove built in the last 20 years will make plenty of heat.

It baffles me there are there now close to 100 posts in this thread that contain constructive advice for how to work with the fantastic home heating appliance you already own, yet you still seem convinced the stove (which is nothing more than a metal box with some small air holes on the bottom and a big one on top) is to blame.

Work through possible causes one at a time, so you can determine if it helps or not. Don't go changing 4 things in your setup at once, because you'll never know which one actually made the difference.

Also, as someone who works in an industry where used equipment is NOT returnable, I would think you will encounter lots of trouble trying to return a wood stove that has been burned in.

 

[BrotherBart]

The 30 plays nice at a stove top temp of 500 to 600 read in the center of the lower step. You will get higher temp measurements on the center of the step bend in the center because the flame impingement plate in the top of the stove and in front of the flue exit is there and the heat going over the top of the baffle slams into that plate on the way to the flue.

 

[PapaDave]

Mind you, I have an older, non-EPA stove, but when I first started, the wood seemed dry.
Trying to get a fire going was, um, interesting. I could get it going, yet when I closed the door, the fire died.
I thought all the same things as you do, yet it turns out the wood wasn't even close to dry.
Here I am into my 8th year of this and now that the wood is dry, I can get full sized splits burning in less than 30 seconds, close the door within a minute, and adjust the air within 10-15.
There's a saying that fits a lot of us who were/are newbies.........."it's the wood, stupid."
Wood with cracks on the end don't mean squat. I have some Maple that I just got c/s/s within the last week or 2 that has cracks on the ends, yet it's probably still at a bazillion % MC.
Oh, and it cracks when I bang 'em together too.
Get a MM, split open one of your "logs", and check the MC on the fresh split face.
Let us know.
Is your flue more than 2' above the roof anywhere within 10' of horizontal at the 2' mark?
Frustration has a way of causing us to close our eyes to the truth.
If the wood is in fact, dry, then we can move on to other possibilities.

 

[brenndatomu]

I am thinking that since the furnace is not epa and I can let more air in the stove through top and bottom damper I will be better off. Also, the bigger blower will move the heat easier so I can damper it down. I should of went with this in the first place I let the phrase save on wood get in my way.

You are thinking that, but you'd be wrong. Believe me, I've been there! I had a wood furnace that had forced combustion (blower that blew air on the fire when the house thermostat called for heat) I had less than optimal wood, the only way that thing would make any real heat was with the combustion blower running, but then it made wood disappear in a FLASH! No blower, no HEAT. So I took this POS (I thought) furnace out, but the person who has it now burns SEASONED slabwood in it, the dang thing makes heat like a volcano and uses fuel like a Toyota Prius Hmmm, exact same furnace, running on the EXACT same chimney....guess it was my wood!
Anyways, I still think you may have a "mechanical" issue though...or maybe it the wood, I dunno.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

The flue is meeting the code of 2 feet above anything within ten feet but it could get higher to get a better draft. For me I am thinking that if it is my wood which I saw harbor freight has a moisture meter so going to get one!! If it is the wood, the furnace will be able to heat house easier by moving a small amount of heta better. Also, the temp gauge on the stove is at the bottom on the right so it is cold out will add more wood see what happens.

Also, if it is the wood what about using those paper logs that burn for a couple hours to keep the temp up??

 

[NH Sweeper]

Okay just fired the englander 30 for the first time today. My issue is that as soon as I close the door even with the damper open all the way out the fire keeps going down. If I open the door it goes back up? What is going on?

what is the size of your flue that you are venting your stove through? if you have too big of a tile or liner it will not draft effectively for a while until it's up to temperature, sounds like a drafting issue, especially if it's drafting when door is open, however your slide on your englander could be not working properly, afterall you purchased one of the cheapest stoves made to man, i'm just sayin mass manufactured not for quality

 

[NH Sweeper]

The flue is meeting the code of 2 feet above anything within ten feet but it could get higher to get a better draft. For me I am thinking that if it is my wood which I saw harbor freight has a moisture meter so going to get one!! If it is the wood, the furnace will be able to heat house easier by moving a small amount of heta better. Also, the temp gauge on the stove is at the bottom on the right so it is cold out will add more wood see what happens.

Also, if it is the wood what about using those paper logs that burn for a couple hours to keep the temp up??

do not use those logs in your stove, most maufacture's void warranty if those are used, they burn too hot.....is your wood hissing?

 

[BCC_Burner]

This thread has devolved into something akin to Ray Charles giving driving directions to Stevie Wonder.

 

[brenndatomu]

get a couple packs of ECO bricks

Also, if it is the wood what about using those paper logs that burn for a couple hours to keep the temp up??

ECO bricks my friend, compressed hardwood sawdust...musta missed that part of mine n others posts...

Also, the temp gauge on the stove is at the bottom on the right so it is cold out will add more wood see what happens.

Bottom right?! That doesn't sound right, I think it is supposed to be on the top, no? this is a free standing stove, no? Temp gauge on the bottom right of a free stander would give false low temp readings...

 

[brenndatomu]

This thread has devolved into something akin to Ray Charles giving driving directions to Stevie Wonder.

HEY! I liked, then unliked that one when I realized yous callin us'uns blind too!

 

[laynes69]

The idea of a larger blower (distribution), and a fire that's been dampened down to produce heat will produce nothing, even if it's a furnace. You need heat in order to trip the snap disc, or limit control. That requires a decent fire. I have found that standing dead ash will read 28% or more even though it appears dry as a bone. I had the same issue as your having when I upgraded to our epa furnace. What took hours to produce decent heat (unseasoned wood) now takes minutes with seasoned wood. It took more than a season for me to wrap my head around. There's many people on here that have experienced the same thing. I didn't believe the wood wasn't seasoned until I bought my moisture meter. I now let even standing dead trees season along with everything else. With seasoned wood, I doubled my heat output, lenghtened my burns and cleaned up my chimney. Don't give up.

 

[BCC_Burner]

HEY! I liked, then unliked that one when I realized yous callin us'uns blind too!

Not everyone, but sometimes it's more humorous and less critical to paint with a broad (tongue in cheek) brush.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I added a generous amount of pine and scrap wood! WOWWWWWWWWW!! what a diference Stove temp over 600 and flue temp staying about 375!! So I am guessing draft is good and it my wood then hugh!!

Thank you so much everyone!!

Will adding paper logs do the trick to get me going or do I need to find scrapwood anyone know where to get that in sw pa??

Let me know if the draft issue is out and as long as I add pine will the fire an ;wet logs burn fine then?

I need to get a alot of pine!!

So for rambling just excited cause it is cold outside

 

[04HemiRam2500]

It is 41 outside stove temp hit 700

Will this stop and get lower as the pine goes away. Also will it be okay if the flue temp goes down is't that epa thing or do you want flue temp above 300 all the time. ?

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I am thinking it is just pine just looked again stove back down to 650. Does it help to leave door open or what keeps the fire hot cause damper still staying open?

 

[BCC_Burner]

Try to find a good supply of scrap wood. Use that to get your fires started and some coals established, then try mixing in your less seasoned wood on subsequent reloads. Find what ratio of dry scrap to unseasoned splits gives you good heat. It will still be a compromise, but with some good coals, a decent draft and a 40/60 or 30/70 mix of dry to wet wood should net you some good heat without using all of your dry stuff.

Leaving the door open will prevent the stove from getting hot, that huge source of air is pushing most of the heat being generated up the flue. This is a decent method for getting a fire started or establishing a draft, but once you're burning you want that door closed. Damper wide open for 10-20 minutes after a reload until things are caught, then back her down slowly, you're shooting for lazy flames off the logs and rolling/flickering secondaries in the top of the firebox.

 

[firefighterjake]

I added a generous amount of pine and scrap wood! WOWWWWWWWWW!! what a diference Stove temp over 600 and flue temp staying about 375!! So I am guessing draft is good and it my wood then hugh!!

Thank you so much everyone!!

Will adding paper logs do the trick to get me going or do I need to find scrapwood anyone know where to get that in sw pa??

Let me know if the draft issue is out and as long as I add pine will the fire an ;wet logs burn fine then?

I need to get a alot of pine!!

So for rambling just excited cause it is cold outside

By George I think he's got it.

OK, now after umpteenth posts it seems as though you are now willing to concede it may be your wood supply. That's good news and bad news.

The bad news: If it's the wood you will need time to get it seasoned and dry enough to burn. In the mean time you can use cut up pallets (or other "tricks of the first year burner" to get you some heat this winter . . . or to help get your stove going with marginal wood.

The good news: Any wood you have left over for next year should be good . . . plus if it is the wood it means all is right in the world . . . or more or less.

While it may seem unreasonable to have to get ahead a couple of years with the fuel supply don't forget how long it took to turn those dinosaurs and ferns into heating oil . . . instead of years we're talking centuries.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I just looked at the stove and the flue temp is just over 250 and stove temp is almost 550. If I close the damper down slowly since wood is not good apparently. Wont it reduce the fire do I need to leave the damper open all the time this winter?

Or will slowly closing damper keep stove hot and save fuel if fuel is wet?

Lastly, it is not that cold outside and it is taking awhile to heat up house new to wood but I am going to assume that is normal. I think I am going to install a couple room to room thru the wall fans.

Also so I should not do paper logs? Why? Like pine don't they burn hot and fast which is what I want.

Thanks again all for all help!! I am just still nervous if I can get heat to the other side of the house if it is in the teen or lower outside? Right now that is the only reason I am considering furnace even if use more wood.

 

[Young_Buck]

what is the size of your flue that you are venting your stove through? if you have too big of a tile or liner it will not draft effectively for a while until it's up to temperature, sounds like a drafting issue, especially if it's drafting when door is open, however your slide on your englander could be not working properly, afterall you purchased one of the cheapest stoves made to man, i'm just sayin mass manufactured not for quality

Ouch. A little harsh. American made and built like a tank, not sure what else you could ask for in a stove...Not all of us can afford 2k or 3k stoves.