Hi Jim, sounds to me that you definitely have a leak. I'm going to try to see if there is any support for a group legal action against Pro-Fab as they have been very unresponsive to these issues. My email is [email protected].
Empyre Elite boiler corrosion
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maple1
Minister of Fire
I don't know about everything else posted above - but having to add a gallon a week to your boiler seems to be a sure sign of something bad going on.
Thanks so much for this info. This is exactly what i did, and Ben mentioned to do. About 10 days ago i took a torch and burned out the creosote again in the lower duct. I then taped the holes off with aluminum tape and caulked along the top of the firebrick with heat caulk. So far the gasification is working (knock on wood). But as I read further in this forum it just occured to me that I've had to add water some over the past month. Not a lot, but more so than last year. I think last year (my first year with it) I didn't add at all. I'm hoping I'm just its just evaporation.
BTW I did retest the moisture in my wood by making a fresh cut. I have 24.8% so thanks for that other suggestion.
My biggest fear with this thing after reading all this is its not a matter of if, just when I will have future problems with this thing. When it works, it works great, but for how long is the million dollar question. I do believe strongly they need to stand behind their product. Thanks for all the insite on this thread.
Yeah you sure have that right, tons of good helpful info and people here. It appears pro fab and a few other manufacturers have zero intention of maintaining a good name or staying in business for any length of time. Seems the thing is to close and reopen under new name thus eliminating any warranty work. It's already happened with a few popular OWB's . Plenty of articles on those. One thing I see here consistently on this site is a very well informed consumer, would put many a OWB salesmen and installers to shame, and give some hydronic tradesmen a run for their money for sure. I much like the support and mindset of higher efficiency and clean burning. A lot or all of the best of the best wood burning boilers and stoves here. Money and time are my limiting factors or I'd be in trouble.
I sure hope fixes and or new modifications can be made to salvage some of these big investments.
I spoke with an owner and he is filling some gaps with sand to seal better. There is fire proof caulk for fire stop, but not sure how well it would hold up past 700-800
I sure hope fixes and or new modifications can be made to salvage some of these big investments.
I spoke with an owner and he is filling some gaps with sand to seal better. There is fire proof caulk for fire stop, but not sure how well it would hold up past 700-800
Funny I had no sooner typed that post than I went down to load it this morning and opened up the lower burn chamber. I removed about 3 gallons worth of ash, most of which was larger size. I had just removed ash last night as well. This leads me to believe once again the gasification isn't working and the lower duct is clogged with creosote again.
It's 1 degree this morning so to start the whole shut down process and cleaning again would be a 48 hour process. At this point I might as well just take the ashes out every day until it warms up enough outside to justify a shutdown.
The pain continues.....
It's 1 degree this morning so to start the whole shut down process and cleaning again would be a 48 hour process. At this point I might as well just take the ashes out every day until it warms up enough outside to justify a shutdown.
The pain continues.....
PassionForFire&Water
Minister of Fire
For the leak issues, did you guys tried this product: http://www.oatey.com/doc/boilerliq.pdf
I'm not sure how well it works, but I see it everywhere in shops (HD, FW Webb, Lowes) here in the North East
I'm not sure how well it works, but I see it everywhere in shops (HD, FW Webb, Lowes) here in the North East
Yes I know that Oates stuff, and you should never use it. It will clog a flat plate or reduce its btu exchange badly. It will fill small leaks, pin holes, thread type leaks but nothing big. It's just like the car radiator stuff. How ever the grime that seals leaks also coats heat exchange surfaces , robbing btu surface area.
Just got involved with my installer over an internal leak in the boiler. Seem to be getting a good response so far from Profab, but I am wondering what sort of prorated cost others have had to pay to get their leaking boiler replaced with the newer model? They are looking for $3000 from me to get it shipped and installed.
They are screwing you. They shipped mine to a dealership free then I had to pay an installer $700 to do the removal and install and he had to upgrade some things. Bottom line is they should be paying 100% because they know they have a major problem.
I'd be leaning on them a little harder on that
I'd be leaning on them a little harder on that
D
Did they upgrade you to the new boiler? And how old was your system? I am being quoted $1900 for the upgrade, plus freight and taxes, and my installer said it shouldn't cost "much" more as they are allowing him $400 for the replacement. (Out of my $3000)
Did they upgrade you to the new boiler? And how old was your system? I am being quoted $1900 for the upgrade, plus freight and taxes, and my installer said it shouldn't cost "much" more as they are allowing him $400 for the replacement. (Out of my $3000)
D
Did they upgrade you to the new boiler? And how old was your system? I am being quoted $1900 for the upgrade, plus freight and taxes, and my installer said it shouldn't cost "much" more as they are allowing him $400 for the replacement. (Out of my $3000)
It's was refurbished one. They said if they didn't have a refurbished one they would send a new one. They are as good as a new one from what I've read. Mine failed right around 13 months. The frustrating thing from everything I've read is that they know they have a serious issue with the first generation of these boilers. They should be replacing everyone's for nothing out of pocket.
They offered me the same as I had for install fee and shipping, or the new upgrade for the $3000 figure, which includes the stainless door, stainless firebox, upgraded air delivery, newer door latches (by the looks of the pictures, mine creosoted closed within weeks all the time), and possibly a new warranty date... I am leaning towards the new build rather than a refurbished model, but it is possible the one I am getting is simply a rebuild with all these features I suppose.
Here's what I know. I bought mine (the original one that failed) and had it it for several months. My friend bought another one from the same dealer. Right before he was to pick up the new one that was in stock Profab wanted it shipped back. They shipped him a new one with all the updates. He installed the new one, then my original one failed several months later.
I looked at his new one that he installed and studied my refurbished one. The issue was the creosote was dripping into the right side duct and eating away at the water jacket. Plus it would clog up the blower chamber and there was no easy way to clean it. I couldn't tell any difference between the improvements in the brand new ones versus the refirbs. They basically took the ones back that failed, completely gutted them, and redid them like the new ones. You will notice if you get a refurb though, as it'll have a smokey smell inside the the exhaust pipe will be black. Other than that it works as good as a new one.
Bottom line: I don't know if its worth the money is a brand new one unless you want a brand new warranty. They knew what the issue was and the refurbs are as good as the new ones. Mine refurb has a full stainless steel box, new door, etc.
Hope this helps some
I looked at his new one that he installed and studied my refurbished one. The issue was the creosote was dripping into the right side duct and eating away at the water jacket. Plus it would clog up the blower chamber and there was no easy way to clean it. I couldn't tell any difference between the improvements in the brand new ones versus the refirbs. They basically took the ones back that failed, completely gutted them, and redid them like the new ones. You will notice if you get a refurb though, as it'll have a smokey smell inside the the exhaust pipe will be black. Other than that it works as good as a new one.
Bottom line: I don't know if its worth the money is a brand new one unless you want a brand new warranty. They knew what the issue was and the refurbs are as good as the new ones. Mine refurb has a full stainless steel box, new door, etc.
Hope this helps some
Awesome info. Thanks Deepwoodsman. I am going to talk to Jim at Profab tomorrow before I send in the credit card authorization. This helps a lot in my preparations for a discussion with him.
Cheers,
I will post a reply after I get a new one in, within the next month or so, to keep the knowledge flowing and to help anyone else out there. 
Reog, I see you joined today, welcome. Had you seen the history here and blocked that air duct off or ran it as it came from the factory?
I have a yet to be fired old model. I patched over the cleaning port in the secondary air supply with a scrap of stove pipe steel and some stove pipe cement.
I can build a new door if the existing one burns through, and know a couple talented welders that will likely be able to patch a burn through in the right side. Still leery of firing, and think I should have bought the Eko 40 for just a little more.
I'm just waiting on it to get consistently cold enough to need the heat.
I have a yet to be fired old model. I patched over the cleaning port in the secondary air supply with a scrap of stove pipe steel and some stove pipe cement.
I can build a new door if the existing one burns through, and know a couple talented welders that will likely be able to patch a burn through in the right side. Still leery of firing, and think I should have bought the Eko 40 for just a little more.
I'm just waiting on it to get consistently cold enough to need the heat.
well it took me two years of fighting with profab on my xt200 to get a 60% refund. what ever you do get it in writing i have been lied to time and time again. i had nothing in writing and i am out about 8500$ i was told i would be paid for all of my labor i did on my stove, then later i was told i would get a full refund for the purchase price. all i was able to get was the little refund. there is no way profab will ever fix that stove till they build a new stove from the ground up. i have since installed a heat master G200 and so far i love it, way better build stove all the way around.I will post a reply after I get a new one in, within the next month or so, to keep the knowledge flowing and to help anyone else out there.
They are horrible to deal with, you just need to keep nagging. You can google search problems with ProFab wood boilers Empyre Elite 100 and find all kinds of stuff. The thing that drives me nuts is its just not as simple as "shipping another one" These things are beasts and the costs involved with getting the old one out of a basement, new one in, hooked up, etc. ends up being out of pocket for the customer. I had to lift my old one out with an excavator and put the new one in the same way. It's not an isolated issue, or something the end user did to cause failure, its a major Profab issue. And they are aware of it.
After reading through the updates, haven't been on in awhile, I agree with Deepwoodman. Sounds like the rebuild option is worth considering rather than the $3000 offer, reog. I did not know the rebuilds included the stainless tank etc. Here's hoping the changes Profab made give yield a better long term solution. I'm hoping my creosote sealing attempts give me a few years leak free. I'll be watching to see if the upgraded Profabs are any better in the long run. Treefrog may be right switching to the G200. I think I would have switched if I could have gotten a cash refund.
I hadn't done any work to the inside of the boiler as I never got any specific direction from Profab to do it. Nor would I have had the skill to weld on or cut out parts of my boiler. I didn't even start to look for this forum untill I found out I had an internal leak. The research I did before I bought it didn't suggest this problem.
I did contact them at the beginning of last season because I didn't get airflow and they explained that creosote may have gotten in the air channel and how to clean it, which I did with a long wire. It ran great all last season. No one mentioned last year that this creosote would/could lead to internal leaks. I agree that better information from Profab may have saved some significant problems for them and us in the long run.
I did contact them at the beginning of last season because I didn't get airflow and they explained that creosote may have gotten in the air channel and how to clean it, which I did with a long wire. It ran great all last season. No one mentioned last year that this creosote would/could lead to internal leaks.
I agree that better information from Profab may have saved some significant problems for them and us in the long run.
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I fixed mine for good, sold it this summer and bought a Garn Jr.
if you really want to get profabs attention file a clam with the BBB. that's how i was able to get part of a refund. you can start with the BBB in the USA and they will pass you on to the Canada BBB. on top of that you need to be a big pain in the butt to any one and every one at profab. ( weekly phone calls and emails + the BBB complaint)
DavelafsrCT
Member
You guys and this thread are scaring me! I have an Empyre Elite 100 on order and due here on the 8th. I really had thought this was a great boiler when doing my research and now I am thinking I may have made a mistake
Where in SE CT are you?
The first gen boilers are the ones that had the major problems. Origonally the instructions had you hook the boiler circ pump up to the cheesy snap disc controlled outlet pigtail so the the pump cycled on & off. It is way better to run the pump continually and use a temperature regulating valve (Danfoss) to control the return water temp to > 140 deg F.
Burn well seasoned wood, maintain your water chemistry, plumb it with a return water temperature protection valve, do not overload the firebox and allow it to constantly smolder in idle mode and you will grealty reduce these issues.
The first gen boilers are the ones that had the major problems. Origonally the instructions had you hook the boiler circ pump up to the cheesy snap disc controlled outlet pigtail so the the pump cycled on & off. It is way better to run the pump continually and use a temperature regulating valve (Danfoss) to control the return water temp to > 140 deg F.
Burn well seasoned wood, maintain your water chemistry, plumb it with a return water temperature protection valve, do not overload the firebox and allow it to constantly smolder in idle mode and you will grealty reduce these issues.
DavelafsrCT
Member
I'm in Lisbon - near Norwich if you know that area. The dealer I dealt with did tell me about the change over to SS. I was somewhat reluctant about that because other manufacturers say it is bad to use SS due to cracking of the welds because of expansion and contraction. That actually makes some sense to me because I am a toolmaker by trade and I know that is a fact. The flip side is that SS is much more corrosion resistant. So 6 of one.... I understand that Pro-Fab now requires the cold water safety valve due to need for 140 deg. F return water and the guy I am buying from told me to make sure and set up the loops to cycle 24/7. It all makes sense to me but after going through this thread I started to have concerns. I have never heated with wood in the past so this is all new to me and I am trying to learn as much as I can before I install and fire this thing up.
Wood is another issue. I bought 6 cords from a local supplier. After I got it I found out that they leave it in log length for a year then cut and split per order. I got a moisture meter and it was 37% when I first checked it about a week after delivery. I put about 1/2 cord in my basement at that time and checked it a week later. It is now at about 26/27% on avg. (I run a dehumidifier in the basement and have a fan blowing through the wood). It seems to have dried an awful lot in a short time which makes me wonder. I checked the wood stacked outside and it is still about 35%. I think I am going to split some of the wood in the basement and re-check the moisture level on the newly split surface because it does not seem like it could have dried that quickly.
Any help or advise would be much appreciated as I am new to this game. Just can't stand seeing that oil man drive up in the winter
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