Propane Price Lock in Rate is a Joke

[SidecarFlip]

Friend of mine bought is own 500 pound tank (underground model) and uses it for heat as well as a fuel for a generator if needed. He said on minimal usage he guesstimates he could have power for two weeks on a full tank. If your prone to power outages, just another reason to consider propane.

You mean 500 gallon tank, not pound.....

 

[SidecarFlip]

I just went to fill a 100# tank at the local lumber store. They wanted $3.89/gal to fill it. Walked away and drove the truck to the Ace Hardware store nearby where it is $2.99 for the same thing. If I took the tank north of the Seattle area it is $1.59 to fill.

I think I would have given them my 2 sent opinion about gouging before walking away....

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just received the first offer for pre-buy in my area (whitehall., Michigan) Excel Propane is offering $1.59.

Thats too high for western Michigan, your gas is coming from Sarnia or East Chicago. Gas right now (as of yesterday) was 96 cents a gallon retail. Prebuy should be right at a buck or just a tad over that.

I cannot see pellets competing at all this winter at least around here and there are a bunch of pellet and corn burners eight around me... I like it. I'm used to spending a bundle on heat. That won't happen this winter.

 

[begreen]

I think I would have given them my 2 sent opinion about gouging before walking away....

I did tell him politely though the minion at the pump has no control over the price. For all I know they are still pumping out of a large tank for which they actually paid a much higher price last fall.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Being in business is all about adjusting prices to be competitive, I do it all the time and sometimes I take a bath but it always pans out inb the end. If his price point is substantially higher than anyone else is locally, he might as well put it to flare, 'cause he ain't gonna sell it..... The market is volitale so what he paid last fall don't reflect the current pricing.

 

[begreen]

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Gonna take a real bath rowcropping this year. Next year will be better...I hope.

 

[Arti]

I'm sure it will plunge for other areas, but they have to truck every bit of it to NH - then if you live in the boonies, they truck it some more, so I'm guessing the price won't go down much. Especially since I'm not going to be picking up my 500 gal tank and getting it filled at the hardware store.

Would be nice if the delivery trucks would run on propain.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Propane delivery trucks (local deliveries) mostly run on propane, not gasoline or diesel and most all propane is trucked from the bulk storage facility to the distribution center (dealer). Very few dealers have rail spurs. My dealer does but still trucks it, it's cheaper for a short haul.

At around 300 hundred a skid for pellets and 3.65/bu for shelled corn, with propane below $1.50 a gallon, propane is the clear winner, at least this year.

 

[Pete Zahria]

At around 300 hundred a skid for pellets and 3.65/bu for shelled corn, with propane below $1.50 a gallon, propane is the clear winner, at least this year.

Glad your propane is cheap. That is the way to go..
The average here taken June 1, is $2.70

So for a million BTU, here, it would be:
$36.95 for propane @$2.70
$24.68 for La Crete @$285
(approximately)

Dan

 

[SidecarFlip]

I still have a skid in the barn so I'll probably roast them anyway. Now if pellets are real cheap I may buy some but according to the industry magazines I get, all the new pellet mills (with the exception of Pine Tree) are all gearing up for export and not domestic production. I'm waiting to get the TSC pellet pre-buy flier, then I'll know what the cost per skid is. Candidly, I'm glad it's cheap too. More money for hunting.

 

[Wooden Head]

Thats too high for western Michigan, your gas is coming from Sarnia or East Chicago. Gas right now (as of yesterday) was 96 cents a gallon retail. Prebuy should be right at a buck or just a tad over that.

I cannot see pellets competing at all this winter at least around here and there are a bunch of pellet and corn burners eight around me... I like it. I'm used to spending a bundle on heat. That won't happen this winter.

I received the pre-buy from last seasons supplier(Wesco) @$1.599 .

 

[SidecarFlip]

When I go up to my hunting property near Stanwood, I fuel my buggy at Wesco. While 158.9 is higher than us, it's still appreciably cheaper per BTU than shelled corn or pellets (using last year's price on pellets from TSC ((Somersets)) and $3.50/bu shelled corn.

 

[mithesaint]

At around 300 hundred a skid for pellets and 3.65/bu for shelled corn, with propane below $1.50 a gallon, propane is the clear winner, at least this year.

Are you sure about this? I agree with the pellet part of this, but not so sure with the corn. As far as I can tell, there are somewhere between 350-400,000 BTU per bushel of corn, and approx 91,000 BTU per gallon of propane. Assuming similar heating appliance efficiency, propane would have to be 1/4 the cost of corn to be more economical. Now, if you're figuring in the work aspect of burning corn vs turning on the propane thermostat, that's a different story.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Reasonably sure. I didn't factor in delivery (of corn) charges, just the per bushel price or the fact that most stoves today cannot run straight corn (corn has to be mixed with pellets, usually in a 50-50 ratio (sometimes 75-25 but not straight, and the handling aspect. Keep in mind that with propain, delivery cost is included in the price and storage in bottle is easier and less space than storage in a bin and handling to the stove. Finally, riunning corn takes special vent pipe which is substantally more expensive.

I understand the mean output (BTU) of corn versus propane versus NG but factoring in the conveinence versus that added grief and labor of the other alternatives, propane at under or close to $1.50 a gallon is hard to beat, except piped in NG. If I had NG, a pellet unit would never be a consideration.

 

[Wooden Head]

When I go up to my hunting property near Stanwood, I fuel my buggy at Wesco. While 158.9 is higher than us, it's still appreciably cheaper per BTU than shelled corn or pellets (using last year's price on pellets from TSC ((Somersets)) and $3.50/bu shelled corn.

Sidecar
Where can I find the BTU conversion chat?

 

[Grisu]

Sidecar
Where can I find the BTU conversion chat?

Here for example: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/techline/fuel-value-calculator.pdf

 

[SidecarFlip]

My wife would much rather deal with the thermostat on the furnace than dump pellets and corn in a stove...of course I get to clean it anyway. I had the heat on last night. We have been getting pounded with rain and wind since early spring. Got down to low 50's last night so I kicked on the furnace for a short....

 

[mithesaint]

Reasonably sure. I didn't factor in delivery (of corn) charges, just the per bushel price or the fact that most stoves today cannot run straight corn (corn has to be mixed with pellets, usually in a 50-50 ratio (sometimes 75-25 but not straight, and the handling aspect. Keep in mind that with propain, delivery cost is included in the price and storage in bottle is easier and less space than storage in a bin and handling to the stove. Finally, riunning corn takes special vent pipe which is substantally more expensive.

I understand the mean output (BTU) of corn versus propane versus NG but factoring in the conveinence versus that added grief and labor of the other alternatives, propane at under or close to $1.50 a gallon is hard to beat, except piped in NG. If I had NG, a pellet unit would never be a consideration.

Agreed. I was looking at it from a cost/btu basis. All those other factors are very individual. I'm set up to burn straight pellets in the 10 CPM, or straight corn in my SCF 050, or propane in the LP furnace. It's totally different for those that would have to change venting/add a stove, etc.

 

[biomass burner]

So my propane company just tried to get me to lock in at $3.44/gallon. Plus, I would enjoy the convenience fee of $119 to lock in the price. Ha, I haven't used the 150 gallons I got in December yet.

Now I just have to find someplace I can actually buy a propane tank - preferably 250 gal, but could go 500 gal if push came to shove - then have it delivered and set up. Then I can tell Amerig*s to KMA, come get their tank and go away (I inherited that company when I bought this place). Of course last time I did that, at my previous house, they gave me a service charge equal to what the propane in the tank was worth. I still have 35% of a 500 gallon tank, so will have to wait a while to replace tank. And, I have a feeling they are gonna start charging me rent - arrgghh, I hate them.

Pellets prices still look mighty good to me!

wow thats crazy high for propane i have my propane caped at 1.79 a gal. so pellets now look pretty high yet around me but im planning on burning Corn to supplement my heat its still way cheaper then wood pellets

 

[SidecarFlip]

Today, there are only a couple manufacturers that actually make true multifuel stoves and I think there may be one or two that still make corn stoves. IMO, the industry kind of shot itself in the foot, but then who could have predicted the glut of NG (propane is made from NG) and cheap corn. Last time around ther corn stove builders got caught with their pants down, many went out of business.

Considering how high the crop looses are this year, I don't expect corn to stay as low as it is but I do suspect Propane and NG will stay low for the foreseeable future.

In my case it's all about flexability, whatever is cheapest I run.

 

[Arti]

In the spring and fall our heat pump is by far the most economical to operate. We use the pellet stove almost every nite in the shoulder season simply because we enjoy watching it burn. Not difficult to do the math..... a half bag of pellets or a dollar for the electric heat pump, we choose watching the fire burn. I suspect we left more than 2 dollars in a bar onetime so this seems like really cheap entertainment to us.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I've been guilty of that myself and lots more money in girlie bars......

 

[Jags]

Just for prospective - I just got a 350 gal delivery for propane at $.99 per gallon.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just for prospective - I just got a 350 gal delivery for propane at $.99 per gallon.

About what it is here as well....

Just got the TSC pre-buy on 'premium wood pellets' I presume somersets. $241.00 a ton pre ordered. Propane is the clear winner. I suspect if TSC brings in a pile, they will have a pile left in as much as most everyone around here either uses propane, pellets corn or has NG.

I'll probably get a ton just for the 'ambiance factor'.....