Propane Price Lock in Rate is a Joke

[bigbobs]

Propane in NH comes in by boat to Newington, NH on the Maine border to a place called Sea3. They are going to expand and are looking at shipping by rail through Portsmouth, which has the locals all riled!

 

[Pete Zahria]

Propane in NH comes in by boat to Newington, NH on the Maine border to a place called Sea3. They are going to expand and are looking at shipping by rail through Portsmouth, which has the locals all riled!

They get riled over anything...

 

[bags]

The cost saving,

True IF you process your own. Very true and a reason I still love wood burning. Now off to reality........ IF you buy cord wood it is about the same cash lay out as pellets and this is exactly where pellets begin to win big.

Plus it's all around fun.

It can be for a MINUTE. Define fun. Is it "fun" getting up in the middle of the night cold and re-stoking the fire box? Is it fun dragging wood around non-stop and all the mess and cold snowy icy bug ridden mess? Is it "fun" being beaten at times like a wood slave? The list goes on and on. Let's be realistic about what is truly "fun" and what can truly be a major PITA at times.......

You get to be outside and enjoy nature. Wood heat is so much warmer. Nothing like watching a wood fire burn, pure enjoyment.

Again, I do not disagree but how about busting up my 10 cords per year for me since it is soooo much fun and enjoyment.

There are many benefits of heating with wood but there are also many not so great realities and pains. Let's just start with time and man hours shall we. Then we can address how "free" wood really is. Do not take this the wrong way. I enjoy wood also and still have all of my wood burning units and equipment. Let's just remove all of the Unicorns and happy rainbow fluff about heating with wood and pellets for that matter. The universe and society etc. do not give you an extra few "free" hours per day just because you heat with wood. Bro Bart has also pointed out some realities of "free" above. I do like wood heat but it can be A LOT OF WORK AND TIME. If pellets continue to escalate in price I will not hesitate to bust wood again. I am going to try to get my stash back up in wood and pellets as I heat probably 100% this season with pellets. Wood heat was at a breaking point for myself and the wife the winter before last. IT WAS NOT FUN. As for her she is DONE with wood. I am not. But that means it is all on me and being self employed with three kids limits my time, my "free" time, and my "FUN time."

Great exercise.

True but you can get an all around better fitness program at the gym in much less time. Just say'in.

 

[bags]

They get riled over anything...

That's why everyone pays over the top prices for commodities and life in general up there. Many are moving out of the high tax and regulations states. Fact. I encourage everyone to stay put because KY is a wonderful state full of peeps from OH, MI, PA, etc that come here to vacation and sight see. Another fact.

It is largely a misconception that KY is an ass backwards pack of banjo playing non shoe wearing fools. Funny but largely untrue. Da Da Ding Ding Ding Ding........Dah Da Dum Dum Dum Da. Ya'll were starting to shift and bounce around a bit. Huh?

There are some poor and suppressed places in the Bluegrass but they still beat the hell out of urban ghettos IMO. It's everywhere you go but we have the poor uneducated hill billy excuse. What's yours?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Now lets add in some good stuff about wood. The cost saving, even with all that you said is a lot compared to LP. Plus it's all around fun. Great exercise. You get to be outside and enjoy nature. Wood heat is so much warmer. Nothing like watching a wood fire burn, pure enjoyment.

Might be fine when you are younger, I'm not. If I have to be outside in the winter, I much prefer hunting over being a wood slave. besides, how is 'enjoying nature' equate to trudging from the woodpile to the stove or furnace? I wanna know the answer to that one...?

Wood heat is warmer? Thats an acquired sensation basied on nothing more than personal feelings... 70 degrees ambient in home temperature using central heat is EXACTLY the same as 70 degrees ambient using a wood stove. It 'feels warmer'. In reality they are the same. A BTU of heat is the same no matter what it's derivived from.....

Again, if you have harvestable wood available, all well and good. Many don't. In the end, it still costs nearly as much as conventional fuels, factoring in all the aspects of harvesting it.

I heated with wood myself, long before pelletized biomass became mainstream so I full well know the advantages and disadvantages. Bottom line is, at the current price of LP, at least here, it's the clear winner.

I'll still have a fire in the appliance but it won't be 24/7 every day. The propane furnace will provide the 'warmth' for appreciably less ber BTU realized than other sources of heat.....

In closing, it's not 'enjoyment' with me, it's keeping my arse warm. Nothing more.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You guys are lucky. My propane supplier just quoted me $2.59/gallon.....

Actually, if you apply the cost per btu calculations of pellets versus propane, you'll find the break point (depending on your cost per ton on pellets) to be right around $2.50 per gallon.......

 

[SidecarFlip]

At my well less than a buck per gallon cost for propain, it (pellets) don't even come close.... no cigar so to speak.

 

[moey]

Some folks like standing in front of a object that is 400F. You cant get that with a central heating system I guess if you had a gas or oil stove you could.

 

[Peterfield]

You guys are lucky. My propane supplier just quoted me $2.59/gallon.....

Seems both oil, NG and propane are priced higher in NH than almost anywhere else. I know it's probably not true but it's almost like the airlines getting caught price-fixing so fares stay artificially high rather than fluctuate from demand.

 

[bags]

Some folks like standing in front of a object that is 400F. You cant get that with a central heating system

Another fact and I am one of those idiots . Still does ease the cash pains of high dollar pellets or high labor and hassle wood handling. Well maybe it does a bit. Kinda like the mental thing toddlers have when the Band Aid gets put on da boo boo. The boo boo still stings and hurts but somehow suddenly mentally it does not. My wallet can care less about a Band Aid being stuck on it. Maybe your wallet has feelings.

 

[muleman51]

I have heated with wood for 41 years, I am now tired, I do feel like a slave to cutting, splitting, hauling, feeding a fire outside 4 times a day. with propane prices where they are now i am going to mothball my boiler and buy yet another boiler and put in the house. My back will appreciate it.I would much rather work a few more hours at work than have to fight for wood even though I have more dead trees than I can burn. Maybe if I retire someday I will go back to burning wood again. Jim

 

[bags]

Maybe if I retire someday I will go back to burning wood again. Jim

Jim,
was in the same boat and I am 46 and in excellent shape and health. Time was my factor and the straw that broke the camels back was I had been working out of town for several winters so the wife had to feed the Woodmaster, manage the kids, and go to work. Loading the wheel barrow twice a day and pushing it thru these nasty snow filled winters just a short distance was enough to piss her all the way off.

The OWB is a great unit but a hungry one. 8-10 cords per winter. Another fact. Very long burn times so stoking it up isn't an issue either. Load in the AM. Load in the PM and it is parked right next to the barn full of nice dry wood. It was still tons of work and time consuming. I have so much wood here and downed by storms and standing dead I shake in my boots thinking about it. Not really but it does raise my brows thinking about all the work and time. I do love wood heat but I am being a realist about it. If it's so "free", cheap, easy, and great why isn't everyone heating with it. You and I and many others know that answer.

I have it all and set myself up to heat with 100% wood and have for many, many years. Just like concrete form work on foundations which I also did for years....... It's a young man's game. I can not tell you how happy I was when that bunch of "fun" sold and left my life. I'll sub that stuff from here on out and even did at times with my equipment and forms sitting idle.

Dump truck, skid steer, front loader 4x4 tractor, splitter, saws on and on. My friend also has a bad ass wood processor I can drag home as I wish for the most part. I have wood handling and processing simplified as much as humanly possible and it still sucks a big donkey dong. People can rationalize all this "free" heat they want but the truth is exactly what it is. Truth = Time and Work or exercise as they like to say. That is a benefit no doubt and being outside and the satisfactions of all of it. But you can sugar coat a pile of crap with all the icing one could want. When you bite into that pile of icing what are you eating? My icing here was beginning to not taste so great. Even with the extra sprinkles. That said, If pellets get insanely priced here I'll be eating icing piles again but not for now. Doesn't make sense currently to have that kind of "fun."

 

[SidecarFlip]

Bags... If I was 46 again,. I'd be a ...well, I can't post it on here but you can fill in the blank..lol

According to my hunt buddy/propane dealer, it will go up after the presidential elections next year so we have 2 winters of cheap gas...

 

[Pete Zahria]

They get riled over anything...

That's why everyone pays over the top prices for commodities and life in general up there. Many are moving out of the high tax and regulations states. Fact. I encourage everyone to stay put because KY is a wonderful state full of peeps from OH, MI, PA, etc that come here to vacation and sight see. Another fact.

It is largely a misconception that KY is an ass backwards pack of banjo playing non shoe wearing fools. Funny but largely untrue. Da Da Ding Ding Ding Ding........Dah Da Dum Dum Dum Da. Ya'll were starting to shift and bounce around a bit. Huh?

There are some poor and suppressed places in the Bluegrass but they still beat the hell out of urban ghettos IMO. It's everywhere you go but we have the poor uneducated hill billy excuse. What's yours?

Where did this come from????
What does this have to do with my quote about Portsmouth?
Did I miss something?

 

[bags]

Where did this come from????
What does this have to do with my quote about Portsmouth?
Did I miss something?

Yes Dan, A good joke. Just playing around. Bored today as you can see. It'll be all right. No worries, heating season is right around the corner.

 

[muleman51]

Sorry for going astray. Gas prices in MN are from $1.14 to .72 depending on quantity and if you own your own tank. I prepaid high at 1.14 in Aug. Summer fill was .97 when I filled on July 8. Stupid me but still is cheaper for me than cutting and splitting. Don't need the hassle after working outside all week long. Jim

 

[bogieb]

Actually, if you apply the cost per btu calculations of pellets versus propane, you'll find the break point (depending on your cost per ton on pellets) to be right around $2.50 per gallon.......

You must use a different calculator than I do; at $2.50/gal for propane, with an 80% efficient heater (probably optimistic for mine), it equals $34.22 per million BTU's. Pellets, at 70% efficiency and $250/ton equal 21.65 per million BTU.

Even if I jack up the propane heater to 90% efficiency, it is still at $30.40 per million BTU's. and I gotta get up to $350/ton to $3.30 per million BTU.

I am going by their standard BTU per unit of 16,500,000 for the pellets so maybe that is where we differ?

 

[Peterfield]

For much of the country, propane is $1.50 or less which would make propane an attractive alternative to pellets, plus saving time not having to schlep pellets or clean a stove.

 

[Pete Zahria]

Yes Dan, A good joke.

 

[Bioburner]

Gas prices in MN are from $1.14 to .72

Labor Day was 93 cents in Grant County. If we don't need much for drying corn as it looks now price will get even more down pressure. Drought monitor this AM showed us in watch area

 

[maple1]

True IF you process your own. Very true and a reason I still love wood burning. Now off to reality........ IF you buy cord wood it is about the same cash lay out as pellets and this is exactly where pellets begin to win big.It can be for a MINUTE. Define fun. Is it "fun" getting up in the middle of the night cold and re-stoking the fire box? Is it fun dragging wood around non-stop and all the mess and cold snowy icy bug ridden mess? Is it "fun" being beaten at times like a wood slave? The list goes on and on. Let's be realistic about what is truly "fun" and what can truly be a major PITA at times.......

I'm 53 and it's still fun for me.

I just put all my wood for this winter, into my basement, this past weekend. One good day would have done it but I started late the first day. No mid-night firings for me, or handling wood outside in the snow & cold. My fire only burns 6 hours a day in the winter, and it's pretty well out by the time I'm heading to bed. Two trips to the cozy basement per day for the firings that I could do in my slippers & underwear if I wanted to. I didn't start putting up wood this year until into August, and will be two years ahead again before winter hits. I look forward to the weekends this time of year, to get into the woods & make chips fly. It's great exercise, and not much better place to be in the fall than the woods.

That's with my current boiler. Looking back to before I got that - ya, it can be a chore & I'm glad those days are over. Staying up too late to get that last load in, then getting up too early to get the first fire of the day going had me kind of ragged by the time winter was over. Not to mention the rather scary at times mid-winter chimney cleanings from the top of our two storey house which I don't have to do anymore. And burning 50% more wood then than now - with a warmer house now.

So it depends on how & what you run, combined with personal preferences. I didn't even know it was possible to heat with wood the way I am now up until 4-5 years ago - lots of options out there. Including being able to use more than one source of heat at times, which has me also seriously considering a mini-split system to handle the shoulder seasons & also some summer a/c.

 

[Bioburner]

News feed this morning stating the Energy Dept stated that propane is at a 22 year stockpile high. I forgot the #s as it was before coffee.

 

[Peterfield]

Yep, whole different energy market this year. Sky is not falling if you haven't bought your pellets far from it. Shouldn't have any panic buying that contributed to the shortage last year due to alternative energy sources running 50% cheaper than last year.

 

[Wisneaky]

I called today because I was curious to see what the price was now. It is .89 a gallon here.

 

[Cory S]

I called today because I was curious to see what the price was now. It is .89 a gallon here.

I don't even know why they bother even charging for it at that price. Might as well give it away, and just pay a $50.00 delivery fee.......