New to pellet stoves, having an issue with a Harman

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tddeangelo

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
9
Southeastern Pennsylvania
Hi everyone,

I've been lurking on here trying to search up some ideas on my issue with a Harmon pellet stove, but so far, it seems to be stumping my best efforts. Hoping someone has some ideas where to look before I throw in the towel and call the local Harmon dealer to come look at it!

I'll apologize now for the ridiculously long post, but I'll try to capture all that I can about the issue to give a complete picture of where I'm at with this thing.

We bought our home in August, and it has a Harmon PP-38+.

We started using it, not knowing much about them, in the fall as temps began to dip. It worked pretty well, and I cleaned the burn pot regularly. I bought 2 tons of Lignetics pellets in the summer to avoid any potential winter price hikes, and we've gone through about a ton (not quite). It's in an addition to the house, so it's not a primary heat source, but it does make quite a dent in how much the furnace runs if I run the pellet stove.

This model doesn't have a lot of the controls/indicators I see frequently referenced on here. No status lights, and no room temp settings. It's got a feed rate setting, a blower speed setting, and that's it.

It would stay lit at 2, be fairly warm at 3, and you'd be sweatin' at 5 (goes up to 6 before you hit the "turbo" mode). As time went by, these numbers started creeping. Meaning, 3 to stay lit, 4 to be warm, but on really cold days, 5-6 to get enough heat to help with the rest of the house.

It also feeds weird. By this, I mean that sometimes it'll feed a lot, continuously, to the point where I turn the burn rate dial down to stop it before it pushes burning pellets over the edge of the burn pot. This doesn't happen often, but it does occur. If it's gonna happen, it's usually at start up.

More common is it just won't feed often, and when it does, it stops sooner than I think it should. Like, the fire is down to the auger practically, the feed kicks on, and it feeds for maybe 5 seconds and then stops. If I turn the dial up a setting, then back down to where it had been, it'll feed more. Usually.

When it is feeding, the pellets seem to be moving properly and I don't see and mechanical hold-ups to the pellets moving from the hopper to the burn pot when it feeds. It just seems to not know when or how much to feed.

So, trying to solve this, I came upon the instructions for cleaning a pellet stove that I should have done. And I embarked on it. I cleaned the burn pot, scraped off the black carbon build up (that was fun, but now I know to do it more often), dumped the ash bin, cleaned the heat exchanger fins, cleaned the blower motor and the exhaust fan, and vacuumed off the ESP. I was extremely careful around the ESP and didn't get the back of it (have to get a flue brush), but I got it looking like an ESP instead of a fly ash covered stick.

Still not much improvement.

The latch on the hopper wasn't fastened with a nut on the threads, and while I'd been meaning to do that, like all good intentions, it never happened. My wife filled the hopper, and the washer/gasket for around the latch threads fell into the pellets and was burned up. Oops.

Doing some research, I thought maybe the opening in the hopper lid was messing up the draft, so I put a piece of packing tape over it to test the theory. It doesn't get more than warm there, so I'm not worried about the tape melting. I just wanted to see if closing that hole helped.

I think it burns stronger on 4/5/6 now, but it'll go out if it's set below 4, as it just won't feed enough pellets to keep burning. Big, bright flames at 4, dies anywhere below 4.

Any suggestions on where else to look? I'm sure I've missed a lot, so any suggestions are appreciated. We love the stove, just need to get myself tuned up on how to maintain it properly. If I set it to 4 or higher, it's warm and works well. Just seems weird that the setting required to keep it lit keeps creeping higher.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for reading all of my ramblings!
 
Did you clean the fines box in the rear of the stove?
It's probably PACKED full of sawdust & pellets.
You need to remove the right rear shroud in order to do that.
While you are back there, pull the ESP & clean it using a soft rag,
with some stove cleaner, like Speedy White on it.
Sometimes the ESP will need more than just a vacuuming.
 
Did you clean the fines box in the rear of the stove?
It's probably PACKED full of sawdust & pellets.
You need to remove the right rear shroud in order to do that.
While you are back there, pull the ESP & clean it using a soft rag,
with some stove cleaner, like Speedy White on it.
Sometimes the ESP will need more than just a vacuuming.


Looked back there and couldn't see where that was...?

It didn't matchup to the Harmon video from their site. I'll have to look again, as my stove doesn't totally matchup to the one they showed where to look for these things.

Everything I read about ESPs makes them sound like they are extremely fragile, so I've been very hesitant to get too involved with it. It can be pulled from the side? I guess just follow the wires to it and go from there....?
 
Yep. Follow the wires. They will lead you to the exhaust flue.
You'll need a 1/4 driver or socket to remove the retainer screw.
It's fragile but not THAT fragile...Pull it straight out & push it straight in.
DO NOT BEND IT.
The fines box cover is probably up behind the control board.
Unplug the unit & remove the two Phillips screws holding the
control board so you can pivot it in place.
That way you can see behind it.
It has a wing nut retaining the cover...
 
The control board is where the feed & blower controls are located.


Hmmmm.... Ok. I may have to take the hopper off to get at that. Ugh. I'll look later when I'm home. I took off the easily accessed rear panels but didn't dig deeper. I'll text my wife (she works from home) to not fill the hopper today at all. Should be low enough if she doesn't that it'll be near empty when I get home.
 
You shouldn't have to do that. How old is your unit?
Isn't there a door on the right side that opens to give you access to the controls?
 
I have no idea how old it is, as I am not the original owner. I think I have something somewhere in all the stuff we got with the house that says when the addition was built. I want to say it was somewhere around 2000....but that's from a vague recollection in my head of the bajillions of documents I saw during the home buying process and the stuff we got from the previous owners (appliance info and such). Since the chimney was built into the wall (stone), I would assume they either had this stove from the get-go or one that had a flue at EXACTLY the same height from the floor.

I'm not sure if there's a difference, although I think there might be, but the labeling inside the lid on the hopper lists it as a "PP38+".

The two dials (feed rate on the bottom, blower speed on the top) appear to just be "there" on the right side, bottom corner of the stove portion (not the hopper). There are access panels below this that I took off with a ratchet and 5/16" socket, but they didn't get me to the control board or collection bin you're referencing. I did find lots of dust bunnies and the blower motor, though, which looked like a shop vac filter until I cleaned it out. Yikes.
 
Assuming earlier Harmans had the fines box. Below those controls where you took the access panel off, get down on the floor with a light and look up in there. You should see a rectangular box with a metal cover, maybe 3"x5" and a wing nut that holds it on.

Those control knobs are mounted on the control board, there should be two Philips head screws holding the board in. But on my P61 I've never taken that out to get at the fines box.
 
I had a similar problem with my Invincible last week. After checking the trouble shooting section of the manual I concluded that it was caused by a buildup of fines under the pusher block that prevented it from travelling back and forth fully. I followed the manual's instructions to free up the block and the stove worked great after. My stove is likely much older than yours but I think they all have a pusher block, the part that moves back and forth at the bottom of the hopper to push pellets into the auger. By adjusting the feed rate setting it changes the distance the block travels, and thus the rate at which the pellets get fed. To free it up I disconnected the spring that attaches to an arm at the rear of the stove, near the auger motor, and then vigorously moved the arm back and forth several times. I also removed the cover of the fines box, which exposed the back side of the pusher block, and tried to vacuum fines from the area around the block.
 
Do this. Ask around for the name of a reliable, independent pellet stove technician near you or a reputable Harman dealer. Pay to have that person do a thorough cleaning and watch what he/she does. You'll then know how to approach it because right now, you're wondering around in the dark.
 
Having had a ton of fuel through the stove I would also look at the rest of the venting. Without the rest of the fancy blinking lights most of us enjoy your stove may need to be unplugged a bit and let it breathe.
We can get a 6 blink indicating improper burn. I was just having issue with the PC45 and the venting was getting pretty bad as it was overdue as with the warm fall the stove never had the post fall shoulder season cleaning before winter and the feed rate was all over the place even though I had removed and cleaned the ESP
Good luck and welcome.
 
If you go poking around and such UNPLUG your stove just for a safety measure so you won't short things out. Just as a precaution.
 
Well, I got back in the back of the stove.

No fines collection bin behind the control board. I did get the ESP out and make it squeaky, shiny clean.

It does stay lit on 3 now, but it hangs on by its fingernails. I have just been watching it burn for a bit and noticed a few things.

The auger seems to turn for a specific amount of time when it's triggered. For example....when I have it on 2, it will go out if I let it. But, when the auger is triggered, and I very scientifically count (one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand, etc), it stops right as I hit "7" every time. At 3, it does the same thing, but I get to "12". Every time. The variable is how long between when the auger is triggered.

I'm quite certain that the chimney and flue need to be cleaned. There's definite build up (could see back through the flue when I had the exhaust fan cover off). What I didn't think about till some more research today is checking the cap on top of the chimney and the shielding for obstructions. I don't see any signs of creosote anywhere, so that's good.

I can say that I'm not seeing smoke, soot on the glass, etc, so it's not having a completely HORRIBLE burn, at least. Getting fine ash on the rim of the burn pot, not chunks of charred pellets, etc.

At this point, from what folks have suggested here and what I've been able to dig up, about the only thing I haven't done is have the chimney/external venting cleaned out. I guess it could be the pellets, but I don't see any signs of water getting to them...no crumbly pellets, dust isn't noticeably worse than when it was burning better, etc.

I guess tomorrow when I get home from work (it's dark now), I'll get up on the roof and check the chimney out and see if I see any issues that jump out at me. If that doesn't yield any results, I guess I'll call the local Harman place. They do service as well, so I guess that's the next step. Was hoping to avoid it if possible, but the simple stuff doesn't seem to be getting the problem totally solved, so I guess I gotta pay up.

I did find a thread on here where someone was having a similar problem, and it turned out to be a control board. That'll be a nice little bill to pay if that's what it turns out to be. It's been burning at 3 now for 20-25 minutes and holding on. It's just a very minimal flame. More what we used to see at 1.5-2, but it was going out yesterday at 3-3.5, so I guess it's doing better.
 
Another thread on ESP was just resolved as it needed to be cleaned as the bends in the venting were plugged and cooking the ESP
A brush with a couple sections of rod and a drill to properly ream the venting will solve many issues and save $$$. Checkout the leaf blower trick as well!
I am not at my main computer otherwise I would post a picture of the fines box. IF it's a Harman, it will be there.
Unless its a Harmon then all bets are off
 
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You cleaned the stove but what about the pipes going into the chimney? I would guess you have a short pipe into 90 elbow followed by a vertical then another 90 elbow and then into the chimney. I would further guess you have a blockage in those pipes probably the horizontal ones.
 
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As near as I can tell, it's got one 90-deg elbow. There's a fairly long horizontal section back from the flue to the chimney. That goes pretty far back. It's lit now, so I can't go digging in there again, but I did clean back to the ESP. Not wanting to damage it, I didn't go further. Now that I know how to get that out, what I guess I could do is pull it back out, then run the shop vac (HEPA filter!) hose back in there and I can probably reach the back. Probably.

Being curious enough to not wait for morning, I checked the chimney just now. It's not that hard to get to see it, because the addition is one story and our house is a 2-story. I can go out the master bedroom window and just step out onto the addition's roof. So I went out with the flashlight and looked. It's not a 3 or 4" pipe the whole way up. It's a full on chimney, like the kind my parents' had for a wood stove.

Looking through the flue when I had the exhaust cover off, it sure looks to me like it goes straight back into the chimney insert, then straight up from there. I don't see any evidence of multiple 90-deg bends. I can't tell if the exhaust from the stove goes into an elbow that then opens upward into the larger chimney, or if it goes straight in perpendicular and blows into the larger chimney horizontally. Regardless, if I get to it when it's cold this weekend in the mornings (my wife is terrified it'll set the house on fire if we let it burn overnight, so I have to relight it in the mornings.....), I could take out the ESP and run the shop vac hose all the way to the back of the horizontal line. I can see no full on blockages, but there's a good bit of build up. It's got an open path, but maybe there's too much constriction from the buildup for proper venting....

Oh, and I looked with a flashlight at the opening in the top of the chimney. I didn't take the screen/cap off, but there's nearly no buildup on there. Tiny, tiny bit of fly ash and what looked like some water vapor.......but it's definitely not constricted or blocked, that's for sure. It wasn't nearly as hot up there as I'd sort of expected the chimney to be. Is there that much heat loss by the time it reaches the outside air?
 
Another thread on ESP was just resolved as it needed to be cleaned as the bends in the venting were plugged and cooking the ESP
A brush with a couple sections of rod and a drill to properly ream the venting will solve many issues and save $$$. Checkout the leaf blower trick as well!
I am not at my main computer otherwise I would post a picture of the fines box. IF it's a Harman, it will be there.
Unless its a Harmon then all bets are off

It's a Harman. :)

Any hints on where to find that fines box would be great. I probably stared right at it and didn't know, but so far, no luck.
 
Permit me some humor but it appears you are Trying your best to win a Darwin Award this year. Please, stop burning the thing until it is professionally gone through by someone who knows what they are doing. Not trying to discourage DIY but you need a base to start with. Please tell me you have CO detectors up and running. You're making me nervous and I'm not even drinking yet.
 
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Behind control panel, metal casting or stamped steel plate with wing nut in the middle. When pulling it off it usually comes close to circuit board area.

Also guessing your feedrate and blower potentiometers are getting worn. Below 4 feed position they it might be a make and break contact, so stops feeding pellets reliably. Look for write ups on cleaning or replacing them within forums.

Increaaing the feedrate number should increase auger on time relative to a total period of time. 1 might be 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, 2 could be 20 seconds on and 40 seconds off, etc. These are fictional numbers but you get the idea. If you put feedrate in a "bad" position the feed on time may be hit and miss due to poor contact and the fire would keep getting smaller until it goes out.
 
This is the fines box with the cover off. Yours might look slightly different but similar. It's on the right side of the stove near the rear. Large wing nut holds cover on
image.jpg
 
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