I have had a few battles with code readers and diagnostic trees on various vehicles. A factory service manual is pretty much mandatory as the alternative is lot of hit or miss parts replacement. Many cars use CAN bus for body control and a typical code reader does not read CAN bus.
Is the reign of the ICE ending?
- Thread starter begreen
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
I read an alternative history novel once where all the cars looked and operated just like our cars on the road, but they were all STEAM engines rather than ICE engines. Not the focus of the story, but the only issue was throttlability (no surprise to woodstove owners). Wealthy car owners just had chauffeurs that kept their car boilers stoked on standby, or in advance of the boss needing a drive. Poor folks took the steam powered bus, or stoked their own cars. All in all it sounded a lot more practical than horses, and almost as functional as ICE cars.
Of course, to our eyes the whole rigamarole of stoking and solid fuel handling seemed kinda crazy, but to the folks in that universe it was completely normal...and it suited their needs and economy seamlessly. Their car owners raved about acceleration, loved the whirring and purring of the steam engine, the smell of the smoke, the tone of the steam whistles they used for horns. We are an adaptable species.
That story may have permanently changed how I look at ICE engines now. I see them as a functional technology with a certain amount of utility, that obviously powered a lot of 20th century applications. But at the same time, ABSURD. Internal combustion? Necessarily incomplete mixing and combustion, high temperature NOx production or both, yuk. Pistons with oil-sealed rings? A mechanically inefficient kludge, with run lifetimes merely in the thousands of hours before complete rebuild is required? Yuk.
Nissan nailed it with this ad:
(my favorite part...the guy is gassing up a VOLT)
All your debates about DIY repair: you are making the argument. Only crappy tech needs constant repair, especially after a century of engineering!
Of course, to our eyes the whole rigamarole of stoking and solid fuel handling seemed kinda crazy, but to the folks in that universe it was completely normal...and it suited their needs and economy seamlessly. Their car owners raved about acceleration, loved the whirring and purring of the steam engine, the smell of the smoke, the tone of the steam whistles they used for horns. We are an adaptable species.
That story may have permanently changed how I look at ICE engines now. I see them as a functional technology with a certain amount of utility, that obviously powered a lot of 20th century applications. But at the same time, ABSURD. Internal combustion? Necessarily incomplete mixing and combustion, high temperature NOx production or both, yuk. Pistons with oil-sealed rings? A mechanically inefficient kludge, with run lifetimes merely in the thousands of hours before complete rebuild is required? Yuk.
Nissan nailed it with this ad:
(my favorite part...the guy is gassing up a VOLT)
All your debates about DIY repair: you are making the argument. Only crappy tech needs constant repair, especially after a century of engineering!
Last edited:
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
My crappy Accent, the one that made it back from Florida in 19 hours, has a 100,000/10 year drivetrain warranty, and doesn't need to get an expensive battery replacement job.All your debates about DIY repair: you are making the argument. Only crappy tech needs constant repair, especially after a century of engineering!
There are reasons why electric and steam powered cars lost favor to the ICE engine, and those reasons remain.
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
I read an alternative history novel once where all the cars looked and operated just like our cars on the road, but they were all STEAM engines rather than ICE engines. Not the focus of the story, but the only issue was throttlability (no surprise to woodstove owners). Wealthy car owners just had chauffeurs that kept their car boilers stoked on standby, or in advance of the boss needing a drive. Poor folks took the steam powered bus, or stoked their own cars. All in all it sounded a lot more practical than horses, and almost as functional as ICE cars.
Of course, to our eyes the whole rigamarole of stoking and solid fuel handling seemed kinda crazy, but to the folks in that universe it was completely normal...and it suited their needs and economy seamlessly. Their car owners raved about acceleration, loved the whirring and purring of the steam engine, the smell of the smoke, the tone of the steam whistles they used for horns. We are an adaptable species.
That story may have permanently changed how I look at ICE engines now. I see them as a functional technology with a certain amount of utility, that obviously powered a lot of 20th century applications. But at the same time, ABSURD. Internal combustion? Necessarily incomplete mixing and combustion, high temperature NOx production or both, yuk. Pistons with oil-sealed rings? A mechanically inefficient kludge, with run lifetimes merely in the thousands of hours before complete rebuild is required? Yuk.
Nissan nailed it with this ad:
(my favorite part...the guy is gassing up a VOLT)
All your debates about DIY repair: you are making the argument. Only crappy tech needs constant repair, especially after a century of engineering!
Well the volt is not 100% electric. It runs about 40 miles on a charge (last I checked which has been a while) and uses an ICE to recharge the batteries and keep going as far as you need till you can recharge it or refuel it if you can't plug it in. The engine doesn't run to move the car like other hybrids. Only is used to provide power to the electric motor.
Lopi Rockport
My crappy Accent, the one that made it back from Florida in 19 hours, has a 100,000/10 year drivetrain warranty, and doesn't need to get an expensive battery replacement job.
Well, the tech is still in development. A proper long range electric car with fast charging would happily make that trip, but would need ~5 separate one hour long charging stops on the way. Hardly the end of the world if you like to eat and sleep during some of them and are not in a hurry.
In 2016 and before, that long-range BEV car would have been >$80k (Tesla). In 2017 you could do it with a Bolt for $40k. Next year you can do it with a $40k Model 3 or a $30k Leaf Gen 2. And the cost is gonna keep falling.
If you don't want to wait 5 hours for charging along the way...not a problem. There is NO physical reason these batteries can't be engineered to charge at 4-6C, or in 10-15 minutes every 3-4 hours of driving. As the market expands, companies will compete on fast charging time, but its still early days there.
And that amazing 100,000 mile warranty is actually a 3000 run hour warranty in practice. If your computer or AC or refrigerator or TV died after 3000 hours run time (about 2x that of an incandescent bulb) you would demand your money back. With your car, you line up to buy a new one, LOL.
Last edited:
That's exactly why its so funny...
...the Volt is the only stinky old gaswagon getting a shout-out! And BTW, the Volt transmission DOES allow direct mechanical transmission of ICE power to wheels. Doesn't always do it, but it was engineered in as an option.
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
Yeah, current Li-ion batteris are good for 1000 cycles, or a mileage 1000x their full range. For a long range BEV that will be well over 200k miles, and will probably be warrantied for such. Shelf life is a bigger challenge....10 years maybe. How many people drive 200k miles in 10 years?
Time to car share I guess.
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
That's exactly why its so funny...
I guess that's how long it's been since I researched it. Back then gm was saying the opposite. Good to know.
Lopi Rockport
I drive just under 40k miles a year. 30k for work, 7k on my truck. Never counted how much I put on the wife's car.
Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
I've been lucky- not the moment the warranty was up, but shortly thereafter, twice! Both times Hondas, both times, transmissions. I switched from Japan to Korea after #2.
LOL It was a good commercial. FWIW, we gas up the Volt about 2-3 times a year unless going on a trip. What the commercial didn't show was a Leaf stuck in the eastern WA desert with the nearest charging station 100 miles away. If we had a pure electric car we would need a second car for trips. Love having both options. So far the Volt has had to engage the engine to transmission feature once in the past 4 yrs..
Last edited:
Surely you jest. If I am on a trip to Idaho I am not going to knock on doors asking random people if I can charge for 8 hrs.. It's a long enough trip already.Really no 120VAC outlets within 100 miles?
That and they'd look at BG like he had a Vgang box stove half a foot from the wall, on carpet, with single wall stovepipe exiting up through a piece of plywood in a window! Or that's at least how I'd look at somebody at my front door asking to plug in their car... Unless they looked like Sandra Bullock. Then it'd be OK.
jebatty
Minister of Fire
An EV will be our next new car. A 200 mile range (with 20-50% reduction for really cold winter days) already is comfortably sufficient for probably 90% of our "local" trips, the longest of those being 95 miles round trip. A 400 mile range, with the same discount, would cover everything except road trips without charging stations along the route. And for those we would choose to rent an ICE or hybrid car. One of our sons is on the list for a Tesla and will likely install a high capacity charger in his home when his Tesla arrives. He also just installed PV at his home. We would cover the cost to install a fast charger at the homes of our other children. Fossil carbon-free energy is both the present and the future.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
All I want to see is small and medium sized diesel engines become popular in the US. Europe has some amazing vehicles that we can't buy...and it shouldn't be that way.
I'd love my SUV to have a midsized turbo diesel.
I'd love my SUV to have a midsized turbo diesel.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
I do all my own changes, but what got me wise to the very problem you described is someone that had the same thing happen on their motorcycle. The doubled up seal blew oil all over their tires and they had an accident because of it.
Ever since then, I inspect the old filter to make sure the seal is intact.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I've seen them filling up recently. Audi, BMW, jeeps, all with the small diesels.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Isn't Europe looking to get away from using diesel at least in passenger vehicles? I believe diesels were subsidized w/ tax breaks in UK for instance that are no longer available. The concern is particulates and health and London has proposed (enacted?) a tax on high with high emissions of those. The VW scandal didn't help either. That could start to impact use and development worldwide.
It was a grand experiment, but Europe is turning away from diesel as they find the high NOx emissions are causing serious urban air pollution and health issues. Electric makes much more sense, particularly in the cities and their suburbs.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-diesel-in-europe-impact-on-health-pollution
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ot-so-harmless-and-could-damage-human-health/
http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/6/14...emissions-nitrogen-oxides-trucks-buses-europe
Electric all fine and dandy until you look at battery mfg. and disposal.
Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
Yes because Europes emissions on NOx levels particulate matter are higher than the US. That is one reason they have so many diesel vehicles there that won't come here. To get the new diesels to pass all our requirements they need to have dpf filters NOx filters and whatever else they deem necessary to pass. All of which adds to the cost of the vehicle and most manufacturers didn't want to take the risk of fitting them with those systems to not have them sell well here.
I would bet that if they tightened up on diesel emissions there and the people that buy them still want them they would make it here eventually as it would be less of a risk. But since laws are going in place preventing them from operating in certain areas that probably won't happen.
It is interesting that manufacturers here are coming out with small and half ton diesel trucks now though.
Lopi Rockport
Most auto battery components are recycled, not disposed of. Electric car batteries last a long time and then even when replaced they often have a lot of life left in them for secondary market use.
http://fortune.com/2016/08/25/used-electric-car-batteries/
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/23/electric-vehicle-battery-can-recycled/
- Status
