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One source of heartburn for us old house nuts is possible additional electrical requirements for multiple EV's in a single household. We are sitting at three cars now, likely to be five or six cars in a decade, when our kids are driving. Meanwhile, we're spread scary thin on a 200A electrical service, whereas any similar size house today would have 400A minimum. At the same time, we're considering moving from an oil-fired DHW heater to a HP water heater in the basement, and replacing our third-floor water heater with an on-demand unit, both high instanteous draw appliances. EV's don't appear to be a valid option for us, based on these constraints, at this time.

Are you really spread scary thin on that 200A service ? - meaning do you actually use its capacity simultaneously all the time? I thought 400A services where mostly targeted at all electric households with electric space heating....

I have 200A service in my (very small) old house.... I probably have "150A" worth of breakers installed but the average draw is a measly 1-2kW (5-6A) and the largest constant draw Ive ever seen on my whole house energy monitor is about 8kW (33A) when the dryer, AC and a bunch of kitchen appliances where all on at once. And I use more than the average household, maybe 800-1200kWh/mo ....

The car charging issue can be handled by charging overnight when other loads are off. If you are really maxing out 200A all the time (48 kilowatts) your monthly electric bills would be close to 5 figures....
 
Are you really spread scary thin on that 200A service ? - meaning do you actually use its capacity simultaneously all the time? I thought 400A services where mostly targeted at all electric households with electric space heating....

I have 200A service in my (very small) old house.... I probably have "150A" worth of breakers installed but the average draw is a measly 1-2kW (5-6A) and the largest constant draw Ive ever seen on my whole house energy monitor is about 8kW (33A) when the dryer, AC and a bunch of kitchen appliances where all on at once. And I use more than the average household, maybe 800-1200kWh/mo ....

The car charging issue can be handled by charging overnight when other loads are off. If you are really maxing out 200A all the time (48 kilowatts) your monthly electric bills would be close to 5 figures....
I guess I need to be more specific, with smart folks like you reading. :)

We have our AC load split among four outdoor units, which helps to manage inrush current. Even so, when an AC unit kicks on, our voltage dip is substantial enough to cause our LED lights to blink out completely, and the UPS on my computer to squeal at me. Same when I turn on my kitchen counter lights (7x 45 watt) each morning. This all probably has more to do with a very long run of questionably-sized wiring from my house to the nearest transformer (somewhere over the hills and far away), than the size of my main breaker.

In reference to loads being lower at night, average load may be much lower, but this is not really the concern if peak load is your issue. Our four AC units, five refrigerators, well pump (which cycles overnight for water softener regeneration), three dehumidifiers, electric water heater, and most other high-inrush loads all run at night. Add three to five cars on high-current fast chargers to that mix, as I don't see investing in the installation of any other type of charger, and it could be a substantial addition to the night-time load.

Hopefully, as adoption of EV's become more widespread, so will chargers that can communicate with one another to schedule charging sequentially throughout the night.
 
I guess I need to be more specific, with smart folks like you reading. :)

We have our AC load split among four outdoor units, which helps to manage inrush current. Even so, when an AC unit kicks on, our voltage dip is substantial enough to cause our LED lights to blink out completely, and the UPS on my computer to squeal at me. Same when I turn on my kitchen counter lights (7x 45 watt) each morning. This all probably has more to do with a very long run of questionably-sized wiring from my house to the nearest transformer (somewhere over the hills and far away), than the size of my main breaker.

In reference to loads being lower at night, average load may be much lower, but this is not really the concern if peak load is your issue. Our four AC units, five refrigerators, well pump (which cycles overnight for water softener regeneration), three dehumidifiers, electric water heater, and most other high-inrush loads all run at night. Add three to five cars on high-current fast chargers to that mix, as I don't see investing in the installation of any other type of charger, and it could be a substantial addition to the night-time load.

Hopefully, as adoption of EV's become more widespread, so will chargers that can communicate with one another to schedule charging sequentially throughout the night.


hahaha... no problem... I've been away for a while and missed our lively conversations :) Even when we dont agree I learn a lot from you...

Anyway, this occurred to me because I've been dealing with power problems recently myself - and same situation, old house, old distribution network .when a couple window AC's came on... maybe 10-15amps, started having the LED's shutoff like you. the microwave malfunctioned.. Dehumidifier shut down. LED's in fact are masking these problems for lots of people who in past would have noticed the incandescents dimming and called up the PoCo.

Some days I was seeing dips as low as 98v and up to 20 volts difference between the two hot lugs at the panel.. all with less than 10kW of total load. We had the entire panel replaced for 200A less than 8 years ago with new meter, new 4/0 service cable and new ground rods so I was fairly certain the problem isn't inside the house.

So I finally called up the power company. They sent a lineman out and it was too many houses on one transformer. They split a zone, added an extra transformer and rewired me to that one and now I have a nice steady 120-125v on each leg with no more than 2v differential no matter how much crap I turn on. All of this was fixed within 3 days of my call and I only had power out for about an hour while they rewired my aerial drop.

I would call the power company and #(*&$#. Its most likely a problem on their end.
 
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I would call the power company and #(*&$#. Its most likely a problem on their end.
Yep, this could be indicative of a problem either with internal distribution or with the feed coming to the house. Either way it should be checked into. We had this issue when the heat pump was kicking on many years back. It turned out to be the line coming to the house was rubbing against a distant tree. This was gradually wearing down the line. Since the repair there is no dimming of the lights at all.
 
I guess I need to be more specific, with smart folks like you reading. :)

We have our AC load split among four outdoor units, which helps to manage inrush current. Even so, when an AC unit kicks on, our voltage dip is substantial enough to cause our LED lights to blink out completely, and the UPS on my computer to squeal at me. Same when I turn on my kitchen counter lights (7x 45 watt) each morning. This all probably has more to do with a very long run of questionably-sized wiring from my house to the nearest transformer (somewhere over the hills and far away), than the size of my main breaker.

I agree with @jharkin and @begreen ....this is likely a utility issue versus a panel issue. I had a bit of that with my HP when I had a weak connection to my aerial line, which seems better after that finally went bad and got fixed.

You can also install (aftermarket) starter caps on those ACs (for like $30 each) to take that inrush away. Might also extend the life of those compressors (which don't like a weak start).
 
You can also install (aftermarket) starter caps on those ACs (for like $30 each) to take that inrush away. Might also extend the life of those compressors (which don't like a weak start).
You are correct on the compressors not liking a weak start. It increases the duty on the start winding, which is designed to be engaged for only a short period. However, I don't see the likelihood of any aftermarket start capacitor decreasing inrush.

I have worked on more rotary induction (standard AC) motors than air conditioner compressor motors, but similar principles apply. Think of a simple capacitor-start induction motor as a bicycle that's missing one pedal, or a single-cylinder engine, either with the crank stick at bottom dead center. A start winding of smaller gauge (higher-R) is wound alongside the inductive run winding, and the slightly higher resistance of the start winding naturally gives it some phase shift versus the run winding. A capacitor is selected by the manufacturer to place on the start winding, and give the most nearly-perfect 90-degree phase shift between start and run windings, providing maximum startup torque and minimum startup time. It provides the second cylinder or pedal, in the analogies above.

Once the motor reaches a predetermined fraction of synchronous speed (clutch type), or the inrush has dropped below a predetermined threshold (inrush or potential relay types), the start circuit is disconnected, and the motor "one legs" it from there.

Increasing or decreasing the value of the start cap would only help if the motor manufacturer failed to do their job in specifying the correct capacitor (not likely), or if your capacitor is failing, and would be a blind effort in futility for the average homeowner to find a capacitor value better than the OEM.
 
This all probably has more to do with a very long run of questionably-sized wiring from my house to the nearest transformer (somewhere over the hills and far away), than the size of my main breaker.

Yes. Get that fixed and you'll be ready for an electric car charger. 200 amps is more than enough. You do know some 200 amp panels have more room in them than others? And that a 200 amp panel is not limited to 200 amps worth of breakers?

Add three to five cars on high-current fast chargers to that mix, as I don't see investing in the installation of any other type of charger, and it could be a substantial addition to the night-time load.

I don't know any family who switches from 3-5 petroleum powered cars to all electric. Typical families will maintain a mix of petrol/electric so they have a vehicle suitable for out of state trips.

Hopefully, as adoption of EV's become more widespread, so will chargers that can communicate with one another to schedule charging sequentially throughout the night.

That's for sure. Or, if you have all night to charge you could charge two of them simultaneously at half-rate.
 
Yes. Get that fixed and you'll be ready for an electric car charger.
You're familiar with the phrase, "the cobbler's children have no shoes," and I make my living wrangling electrons. It's something I've been meaning to get at, but with nearly constant renovation in this house, it always falls down a few pegs on the list. I may make a point to bring home some power monitoring equipment this weekend.

200 amps is more than enough. You do know some 200 amp panels have more room in them than others? And that a 200 amp panel is not limited to 200 amps worth of breakers?
Yes, but for full disclosure, I have six breaker panels. This ain't exactly what one would call a "tiny house".

I don't know any family who switches from 3-5 petroleum powered cars to all electric. Typical families will maintain a mix of petrol/electric so they have a vehicle suitable for out of state trips.
I was stating the extreme case, to make a point. My assumption was a gradual change-over, from ICE mostly electric vehicles. With some car companies already announcing an end date to all new ICE development, I see that being the direction over the next ten years.
 
My brother tells me there are homes in Greenwich that have 1,200 amp service and use 10,000 kwh per month

Boggles the mind.
 
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You are correct on the compressors not liking a weak start. It increases the duty on the start winding, which is designed to be engaged for only a short period. However, I don't see the likelihood of any aftermarket start capacitor decreasing inrush.

Increasing or decreasing the value of the start cap would only help if the motor manufacturer failed to do their job in specifying the correct capacitor (not likely), or if your capacitor is failing, and would be a blind effort in futility for the average homeowner to find a capacitor value better than the OEM.

I defer to your expertise, but many HVAC compressors have an available option from the OEM called a 'hard-start' kit. In my experience, it is just a larger start capacitor. Looking at the wiring on my (cheap) HP, I can only see one rather small cap for what I know is a pretty hefty motor. Doesn't there need to be a run cap too?

So, is it possible that the OEMs are 'cheaping out' with a small starter cap (perhaps using one cap and a relay for both run and start?)?
 
I defer to your expertise, but many HVAC compressors have an available option from the OEM called a 'hard-start' kit. In my experience, it is just a larger start capacitor. Looking at the wiring on my (cheap) HP, I can only see one rather small cap for what I know is a pretty hefty motor. Doesn't there need to be a run cap too?

So, is it possible that the OEMs are 'cheaping out' with a small starter cap (perhaps using one cap and a relay for both run and start?)?
Interesting questions. There are so many types of induction motors, that it's hard to say off the cuff. One of the issues with the standard "capacitor start, induction run" motors (those with a single start capacitor switched out at speed, and no run cap) is that they have relatively low torque after the start circuit drops out, and under high load they can slow down to where the start winding has to kick back in. They also have poor power factor. So, many induction motors used in high-torque applications (in which I imagine AC compressors may be included) will have dual run windings with a capacitor on one of them to provide the second-pedal effect, vastly improving torque and boosting power factor. Most of these motors still seem to have a start capacitor that is switched in for high stall torque at start-up, and so you'll see AC compressor motors with dual cap's (one start, one run), for this purpose.

Start capacitors are very cheap (eg. $1), and within the range of values typically used on a small motor, the price doesn't vary much with value. So, I don't think they're cheaping out by using a smaller start cap.

Where they're likely saving money is by the addition of a run capacitor. Full-duty run cap's are very expensive (eg. $10+), compared to start capacitors, but they allow the manufacturer to get more torque out of a smaller motor. The motor costs many times that of all the capacitors you may ever hang on it, especially now that they're all integrated into the compressor.

I wonder if these aftermarket cap kits your talking about are on the run winding, not the start winding, and they're trying to improve the power factor of the motor. Or maybe some compressor motors skip the start circuit altogether, as the torque supplied on by a cap run motor might be high enough to not require a separate start circuit. Start circuits are the typical failure point of a motor, either the mechanical clutch, relay, or the capacitor itself. Eliminating the mechanical clutch or start relay would be a huge improvement in the reliability of any motor, and also save $$.

Either way, from an engineer's perspective, I'd assume the OEM already did a better job with selecting capacitors for their own motor, than any aftermarket capacitor retailer is going to do without knowledge of that particular motor. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised. I have been thru the exercise of trying to select start capacitors for antique motors of unknown characteristics, and using special equipment to time start-up cycles versus capacitor value, and can assure you it's not very easy to do!
 
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I suppose one ancillary advantage to having the necessary 240V circuits run for charging an EV, is you now have the circuit you need for one of these: http://www.woodsplitterdirect.com/c/12-20-ton-electric-wood-splitters/

10+ ton electric log splitters taking >12A is now well within reach... without the maintenance of a gasoline engine (although, neither the convenience).

And of course, if your EVSE supply outlet is NEMA 14-50 (with neutral hooked up), you can derive 120V/40A from that should the log splitter in question require 120V for some odd reason...
 
I think that I am the guy that drinks the Electric Koolade.

We have a 2017 BMW I3 (a really great electric car), an electric wood splitter and I converted an old garden tractor to lithium battery, electric power.
We have 2 x 200 amp supplies and survive fine.
I cannot understand all the nostalgia for an ICE (Internal Combustion engine).
They are a pain & require agravating maintenace

I have a Surburban for hauling, an old Range Rover for snow days and a long distance car for long trips but for routine, everyday driving, the electric car is just flat better.
There is no real maintenace on an electric car (visited the dealer once in 2 years) and just about nothing to go wrong.
Electric cars have lower manufacturing costs for the powertrain and the rest of the car costs the same to produce.
As battery costs drop, they become cheaper to produce than an ICE but with higher percieved value and thus greater margins.
The ICE is on the flat part its development curve and the electric car on a steep development curve.
Technology marches on. The ICE cannot keep up.
 
I suppose one ancillary advantage to having the necessary 240V circuits run for charging an EV, is you now have the circuit you need for one of these: http://www.woodsplitterdirect.com/c/12-20-ton-electric-wood-splitters/

10+ ton electric log splitters taking >12A is now well within reach... without the maintenance of a gasoline engine (although, neither the convenience).

And of course, if your EVSE supply outlet is NEMA 14-50 (with neutral hooked up), you can derive 120V/40A from that should the log splitter in question require 120V for some odd reason...
Looks like most of the electric splitters are still 110V. Pulling 110V 20A off of the 240V/40A circuit would require some protective fusing for the lower gauge cord going to the 120V splitter.
 
All I know is the times we have been without electricity for one week, several times, two weeks, yes it happened one winter, my ICEs got me to the grocery store, plowed the driveway and ran the generators.
 
My thoughts keep returning to how best work an EV into our home transportation system. We have a 2007 Camry nearing 200,000 miles, meaning just well broke in, that gets 33-35 mpg on the highway. And a 2011 Avalon, fabulous touring car, which gets 29 mpg mixed driving, at just about 100,000 miles, meaning still has that new car smell. The Camry is my car, has a trailer hitch and is my "work truck." The Avalon is my wife's car, she loves it, but it is not well suited for a hitch and trailer pulling, and I would not want this to become the new work truck anyway.

Solution? Sell/trade both cars for an EV plus a small SUV with light trailer hauling capacity? My wife wants a small SUV but is not keen on giving up the Avalon. She would support an EV which would handle nearly all of my driving if it had 200+ mile range on a full charge. Is 2018 time to make the switch? We have excess PC capacity of about 4500 kwh, not enough though to fully fuel an EV, and additional PV is a possibility. Dreaming or reality?
 
My thoughts keep returning to how best work an EV into our home transportation system. We have a 2007 Camry nearing 200,000 miles, meaning just well broke in, that gets 33-35 mpg on the highway. And a 2011 Avalon, fabulous touring car, which gets 29 mpg mixed driving, at just about 100,000 miles, meaning still has that new car smell. The Camry is my car, has a trailer hitch and is my "work truck." The Avalon is my wife's car, she loves it, but it is not well suited for a hitch and trailer pulling, and I would not want this to become the new work truck anyway.

Solution? Sell/trade both cars for an EV plus a small SUV with light trailer hauling capacity? My wife wants a small SUV but is not keen on giving up the Avalon. She would support an EV which would handle nearly all of my driving if it had 200+ mile range on a full charge. Is 2018 time to make the switch? We have excess PC capacity of about 4500 kwh, not enough though to fully fuel an EV, and additional PV is a possibility. Dreaming or reality?

Interesting. The hitch factor is one issue, but we need more info....

Your 4500 kWh, assuming 3.2 miles/kWh (cold climate seasonal average) = 14,400 miles/yr, nothing to sneeze at. How many miles/yr do you and the Mrs do on the two vehicles....and how much is long-haul (over 100 miles one way)?

I assume the hitch is for a small ute trailer? Can you do your hauling in the back of a mid-size hatch with fold-down seats, maybe with some sort of protection you can insert when needed?

If that doesn't work for you, is the hitch Class 1? There may be Class 1 options on some EVs....in 2018.

I don't get the 200+ mile comment/restriction, but I assume it is due to things in MN being pretty spread out (e.g. 30-50 miles to the box store) and expecting a hard range hit in the winter (with sub zero temps and snow tires). I would still expect 2.2-2.3 miles/kWh absolute worst case (simultaneously 75 mph, <0°F, falling snow, snow tires, carrying 800 lbs). A 60 kWh Bolt would have a 132 miles worst case range, 100-110 mile usable 'no worry' range, but would easily do 240 miles at 55-60 mph in the summer.

Do you have a garage that stays above 0°F year round (even better, above 20°F)? Lithium battery electrolyte freezes around -5°F, so all EVs have a battery heater that engages around 0°F to avoid permanent damage. If the vehicle is parked, it will self-power this heater until its depleted, limiting unpowered sub-zero outdoor parking times to ~days, not weeks.

The wild card is that the EV is likely more functional than you seem to expect. Every family that I know that got one, the couple 'fights' over who gets to drive it on the weekends. So my (old) LEAF is my wife's commuter, but she and I both use it for all WE errands/trips, because it is so much nicer than our other car.

So to answer your question, if the other cars are paid off, why not keep them and have 3 (at least until your discover the functionality of the EV? If the EV hatch covers all your hauling but once a year....rent a van? I would expect insurance would be cheap out there....and you could chat with your agent about the super low miles the Camry might be getting....etc.
 
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I suppose one ancillary advantage to having the necessary 240V circuits run for charging an EV, is you now have the circuit you need for one of these: http://www.woodsplitterdirect.com/c/12-20-ton-electric-wood-splitters/

10+ ton electric log splitters taking >12A is now well within reach... without the maintenance of a gasoline engine (although, neither the convenience).

And of course, if your EVSE supply outlet is NEMA 14-50 (with neutral hooked up), you can derive 120V/40A from that should the log splitter in question require 120V for some odd reason...


I was just thinking this morning how convenient it would be to have an electric log slitter more or less stationed at one end of my woodshed. Electric car development is moving such that it seems the car after next for me will be an electric. The next time I have a person with a backhoe here, I'm running conduit to the garage and pulling wire for a sub panel in there to facilitate that switch. Then I could either run an extension cord from the garage or send a circuit to the woodshed for the splitter.

I can't think that I would overload my 200 amp service. Assuming I'm using the online calculator that I found correctly, turning on everything that could conceivably run would pull just over 100 amps. This would be in the depths of winter with no fire in the stove, all of the electric baseboards kicked on at the same time while we're cooking a meal using every burner of the stove and also doing laundry with hot water.
 
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I will admit that I still love an old fashion ICE but I agree we are going all electric more sooner than later.

Buddy of mine has a plug in hybrid (Ford C-Max) and 10k of solar on his roof. He charges at night and does all his local driving and probably 70% annual mileage on battery... and still net sells power to the grid.


I'm still commuting in the truck, but I suspect about 5-6 years out we will get a new car... at that time probably most options will be a plug in hybrid, and demote the truck to weekend hauler duty.
 
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I will admit that I still love an old fashion ICE...
Amen. The performance from cars like the Tesla S P90 is impressive, but I still crave the sinister sound of a radically-cam'd ICE:

 
Very helpful info. Importantly, I mentioned to my wife the idea of getting a small SUV and an electric car, selling both the Camry and Avalon, and she is already looking for an SUV that she would like.

"Your 4500 kWh, assuming 3.2 miles/kWh (cold climate seasonal average) = 14,400 miles/yr."
This is pretty close to annual mileage on each on our two existing autos. All local driving has a round trip range of up to 90 miles, with an occasional 150 miles round trip. We also make frequent trips to Mpls-St. Paul, 190 miles one-way, to visit family. This is the reason for the 200+ mile range. Could work a deal out with each of our children to install a 50A - 240V charge station at their homes.

"Can you do your hauling in the back of a mid-size hatch with fold-down seats, maybe with some sort of protection you can insert when needed?If that doesn't work for you, is the hitch Class 1?"
Currently have a Class I on the Camry, small trailer works fine. We also have a teardrop, very small RV trailer, sleeping only. A hatch wouldn't do it.

"Do you have a garage that stays above 0°F year round (even better, above 20°F)?"
No. Garage is detached, unheated. Could keep the car plugged in while in the garage to prevent depleting the battery.

"The wild card is that the EV is likely more functional than you seem to expect."
My wife might want to take over use of the EV as her primary car. Would be OK with me.

"So to answer your question, if the other cars are paid off, why not keep them and have 3 (at least until your discover the functionality of the EV)?"
This is a possibility. We have parking space but not garage space for the 3rd car. The Camry would likely meet the elements with outside parking. Will discuss with our insurance agent. Also need to talk to our electric utility to see if it offers a special rate for car charging.
 
Very helpful info. Importantly, I mentioned to my wife the idea of getting a small SUV and an electric car, selling both the Camry and Avalon, and she is already looking for an SUV that she would like.

"Your 4500 kWh, assuming 3.2 miles/kWh (cold climate seasonal average) = 14,400 miles/yr."
This is pretty close to annual mileage on each on our two existing autos. All local driving has a round trip range of up to 90 miles, with an occasional 150 miles round trip. We also make frequent trips to Mpls-St. Paul, 190 miles one-way, to visit family. This is the reason for the 200+ mile range. Could work a deal out with each of our children to install a 50A - 240V charge station at their homes.

"Can you do your hauling in the back of a mid-size hatch with fold-down seats, maybe with some sort of protection you can insert when needed?If that doesn't work for you, is the hitch Class 1?"
Currently have a Class I on the Camry, small trailer works fine. We also have a teardrop, very small RV trailer, sleeping only. A hatch wouldn't do it.

"Do you have a garage that stays above 0°F year round (even better, above 20°F)?"
No. Garage is detached, unheated. Could keep the car plugged in while in the garage to prevent depleting the battery.

"The wild card is that the EV is likely more functional than you seem to expect."
My wife might want to take over use of the EV as her primary car. Would be OK with me.

"So to answer your question, if the other cars are paid off, why not keep them and have 3 (at least until your discover the functionality of the EV)?"
This is a possibility. We have parking space but not garage space for the 3rd car. The Camry would likely meet the elements with outside parking. Will discuss with our insurance agent. Also need to talk to our electric utility to see if it offers a special rate for car charging.

As expected, a challenging use case for an EV. An update:

The hitch is a no-go. Nothing short of a $100k tesla S or X will have any hitch. You will be retaining an ICE car just for this function, but I expect that will be low cost, and as you said, it can sit outside.

The 190 mile one-way hauls to Minneapolis would be no problem (I think we can safely assume) for a Bolt in above freezing weather, with normal LRR tires. I don't get range-anxiety, but I would still want some more data before assuming the Bolt could make the same run in below freezing weather.

Just to spin, you could keep the Camry, and the Mrs gets a Bolt (IF she liked a test drive), then you would prob be aok in a 2 car case, b/c you could take the Camry to the city in hard winter weather, and the Bolt otherwise. If you figure you made up the missing miles on the Bolt by preferring it for errands, you could prob do half or more of your miles EV. If the Camry is too beat for a comfortable road trip, you would keep the Avalon as the third car for that function (mostly getting driven on looong trips in very cold weather).

On the bright side, the two ICE cars are nearing end of life, so a 200+ mile BEV would extend those lives significantly, delaying the purchase of their replacement, perhaps significantly.

B/C of the long distances and extreme weather, though, a PHEV (with a decent all electric range 'AER') might make more sense if you really wanted to go to two cars and to not have to worry. The Volt would be a great start, but the 50 mile (good weather) AER is below your 90 mile errand maximum. Still it might cut your gas consumption a lot, but is a downsize for the mrs from an Avalon or SUV. If you wanted a bigger PHEV, then the AER tends to be even less. Meh.

In the end it will come down to two things I can't really get at: your and the mrs' reaction to a test drive, and pencilling out the costs WITH insurance. A new EV will have a high book value (over your cost less incentives) and a proportionally high insurance cost.

In my case, my wife is doing most of the miles, so it came down to her test drive, and she was pleasantly surprised. The feeling of control and responsiveness was a BIG positive for her versus her previous Toyotas.
 
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I think that I am the guy that drinks the Electric Koolade.

We have a 2017 BMW I3 (a really great electric car), an electric wood splitter and I converted an old garden tractor to lithium battery, electric power.
We have 2 x 200 amp supplies and survive fine.
I cannot understand all the nostalgia for an ICE (Internal Combustion engine).
They are a pain & require agravating maintenace

I have a Surburban for hauling, an old Range Rover for snow days and a long distance car for long trips but for routine, everyday driving, the electric car is just flat better.
There is no real maintenace on an electric car (visited the dealer once in 2 years) and just about nothing to go wrong.
Electric cars have lower manufacturing costs for the powertrain and the rest of the car costs the same to produce.
As battery costs drop, they become cheaper to produce than an ICE but with higher percieved value and thus greater margins.
The ICE is on the flat part its development curve and the electric car on a steep development curve.
Technology marches on. The ICE cannot keep up.
I'd like to hear more about your garden tractor converted to electric power, please! The more details, the better. Thanks!
 
As expected, a challenging use case for an EV. An update:

The hitch is a no-go. Nothing short of a $100k tesla S or X will have any hitch. You will be retaining an ICE car just for this function, but I expect that will be low cost, and as you said, it can sit outside.

In my case, my wife is doing most of the miles, so it came down to her test drive, and she was pleasantly surprised. The feeling of control and responsiveness was a BIG positive for her versus her previous Toyotas.
For light towing maybe consider a Toyota Highlander hybrid?
 
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