Bathroom remodel - Durock vs Permaboard

[TresK3]

In doing the bathroom remodel (referenced on other posts), I'm re-tiling the shower and the floor (basically everything). In past similar projects (about 25 years ago), I used greenboard around the tub and 1/4" luan underlayment on top of the sub floor, for the floor tile. For this project, I'm going with cement board all around.

I was at Menard's picking up supplies (don't judge me...) and grabbed 4 sheets of 1/2 inch "cement board" to get the floor started. When I got home and unloaded them, I realized that one sheet was Permaboard (it was lighter) and 3 sheets were Durock. Both claim to be 1/2", but without putting a micrometer on them, the Permaboard seems a tad thinner (maybe 1mm). I'm thinking to use the heavier stuff (the Durock) for the floor and saving the Permaboard for when I do the shower.

However... are there any benefits of one over the other, especially for my applications?

Also, for the floor, do I need to seal with anything before tiling? I'm assuming that I should use a floor leveling compound at the joints. Is there anything else I should do?

Thanks!

 

[gzecc]

In doing the bathroom remodel (referenced on other posts), I'm re-tiling the shower and the floor (basically everything). In past similar projects (about 25 years ago), I used greenboard around the tub and 1/4" luan underlayment on top of the sub floor, for the floor tile. For this project, I'm going with cement board all around.

I was at Menard's picking up supplies (don't judge me...) and grabbed 4 sheets of 1/2 inch "cement board" to get the floor started. When I got home and unloaded them, I realized that one sheet was Permaboard (it was lighter) and 3 sheets were Durock. Both claim to be 1/2", but without putting a micrometer on them, the Permaboard seems a tad thinner (maybe 1mm). I'm thinking to use the heavier stuff (the Durock) for the floor and saving the Permaboard for when I do the shower.

However... are there any benefits of one over the other, especially for my applications?

Also, for the floor, do I need to seal with anything before tiling? I'm assuming that I should use a floor leveling compound at the joints. Is there anything else I should do?

Thanks!

Use Redgard on the walls in the shower after you tape the joints. None of the under layments are waterproof. Adds cost and time, but I always wanted my shower walls to be waterproof.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Our shower is waterproof and it looked like this before the tiling began. This is cement board (durock) mudded and taped joints. Our guy used something very expensive on it and did 2 coats.

 

[semipro]

Use Redgard on the walls in the shower after you tape the joints. None of the under layments are waterproof. Adds cost and time, but I always wanted my shower walls to be waterproof.

2nd this.

 

[vinny11950]

For the tile floor outside the shower, if you use the durock as an underlayment, you need to use a cementous mortar in between the plywood and the durock. Then secure it all with plenty of screws. Once that dries, tape the joints with fibertape made for cement boards and fill the seams with more mortar.

For the shower floor in the shower stall, you need a totally different system to water proof it all. Go to Johnbridge.com and look around.

You will get plenty of ideas and information on how to build a shower correctly. They have a calculator that will tell you if your floor joists can handle the tiles you want to use. Also, you should have one layer of 1/2 plywood and another layer of T&G 3/4 floor rated plywood. Then you put on the 1/2 or 1/4 of durock. 1/2 is used for the wall and 1/4 for the floors, but you can use the 1/2 on the floor too.

 

[TresK3]

2nd this.

Just to confirm, I tape the joints with the fiberglass tape, and use Redgard as the "joint compound" and to cover all of the durock. Do you (gezecc and Semipro) recommend one or two coats?

 

[gzecc]

Just to confirm, I tape the joints with the fiberglass tape, and use Redgard as the "joint compound" and to cover all of the durock. Do you (gezecc and Semipro) recommend one or two coats?

Think directions state 2 coats . Read container.

 

[TresK3]

Think directions state 2 coats . Read container.

Will do.

Thanks!

 

[Dobish]

redguard for sure.... just be careful to tape off everything you don't want it on, because once it is dry, it is a pain to get off..

 

[sportbikerider78]

You use mortar on the joints and tape them. Then you seal it all with what ever waterproofing you have.

That is how the guy that built my shower did it. It looks perfect.

He also used a waterproofing membrane under the durock from the floor/base to about 2-3' up into the shower wall. This is an added layer of insurance.

Depending on the tile, it can realllllly matter if your wall is straight. For small subway tile, its really obvious if your wall is screwed up after you tile it. Use an 8' level to see what your wall looks like. Mine was 3/8 out from top to bottom and required at least 3 bags to level out. Took him an entire day to get right.

 

[Dobish]

You use mortar on the joints and tape them. Then you seal it all with what ever waterproofing you have.

That is how the guy that built my shower did it. It looks perfect.

He also used a waterproofing membrane under the durock from the floor/base to about 2-3' up into the shower wall. This is an added layer of insurance.

Depending on the tile, it can realllllly matter if your wall is straight. For small subway tile, its really obvious if your wall is screwed up after you tile it. Use an 8' level to see what your wall looks like. Mine was 3/8 out from top to bottom and required at least 3 bags to level out. Took him an entire day to get right.

i agree! you really see the variation with small tile! Those 3-4 tiles that are just a hair out really bug me, because i said "oh, that will be good enough"

 

[TresK3]

Another Durock question...

The durock on the wall will extend past the edge of the shower, to land on the next wall stud. I'm not planing on tiling all the way out. How should I finish the exposed durock so that I can paint it and the drywall next to it, and have it look right? Is it possible to tape that seam then skim coat the durock with drywall topping compound and prime & paint? Is there another way? Or should I put a new stud in, just at the edge of the shower, and end the durock where I want the tile to end?

Thanks!

 

[vinny11950]

You can have the bullnose tile overlap onto the sheetrock a little bit. Tape the joint with cement board tape, and as you tile fill the joint with mortar. If you don't want to go that far with the tiles, you can tape the joint and use a hot mud, like Durabond to cover the joint and whatever cement board is exposed. Make sure the Durabond is smooth before it sets because it set very hard and is tough to sand. Then do another layer with a topping compound to smooth out and paint.

I would also recommend that you use mold resistant sheet rock in the bathroom. Maybe even use durock at the bottom of the wall (4 inches all around) so that if they even get wet, it won't swell up.

 

[iron]

You can have the bullnose tile overlap onto the sheetrock a little bit. Tape the joint with cement board tape, and as you tile fill the joint with mortar. If you don't want to go that far with the tiles, you can tape the joint and use a hot mud, like Durabond to cover the joint and whatever cement board is exposed. Make sure the Durabond is smooth before it sets because it set very hard and is tough to sand. Then do another layer with a topping compound to smooth out and paint.

I would also recommend that you use mold resistant sheet rock in the bathroom. Maybe even use durock at the bottom of the wall (4 inches all around) so that if they even get wet, it won't swell up.

ditto.

also, when putting on your redguard, plan for a disposable set of brushes/rollers and try to get everything as smooth as possible before redguarding. you need to mud the durock before the redguard BTW.

alternatively, if you want a different kind of waterproof, you can do wedi boards...

 

[Doc C]

Just to confirm, I tape the joints with the fiberglass tape, and use Redgard as the "joint compound" and to cover all of the durock. Do you (gezecc and Semipro) recommend one or two coats?

Alkali resistant mesh tape, redguard should be applied until it's tough to read the writing on cement board. Also if you want to get technical there is a guage you can buy to check the depth of the redguard.

I just apply it until I can barely ready the writing on the cement board. Also I do very light coats so I end up doing several.

The mesh tape is embedded in a layer of thinset.

 

[TresK3]

Thanks to all on the advice.

In slightly related news... I started another related thread with "Bathroom Remodel" in the title, but it doesn't seem to have posted. Perhaps I exited before posting? Is there anyplace that a draft post may be stored? I'd like to recover it, if I can.

 

[begreen]

Our shower is waterproof and it looked like this before the tiling began. This is cement board (durock) mudded and taped joints. Our guy used something very expensive on it and did 2 coats.

Was the stuff black? I painted our shower walls with 4 coats of the stuff provided by the tileperson. I don't recall the product name but I remember it was made to seal a window sill in a shower. This was before modern systems like Kerdi. 20 yrs later. There are no leaks, but I like the modern systems more.

Shower Membrane Waterproofing - DIY'ers Definitive Guide

Shower membrane waterproofing - Professional product reviews & opinions, AND tricks of the trade you'll find nowhere else!

redblockindustries.com

 

[zrock]

I am remodeling a bathroom and could use some advice. The vanity light is on a 15A circuit shared by another room's lights. The receptacle is on a 20A circuit shared by the other bathrooms and fed by a 20A GFCI breaker. I was wanting to install a fan and a light in the shower. I am wondering if they need to be on a GFCI circuit or can they simply be added to the 15A light circuit? And if they need to be GFCI protected, would it be better to run a new 20A circuit to this bath and remove it from the other circuits so that I can have the lights and receptacle on one circuit? The light I bought for the shower is rated for that use and the fan is just a vent, no heater or integrated light fixture. By the way, I am an electronics engineer with 20 yrs experience: 15 yrs in embedded microprocessor systems for missile guidance systems and now I work for Square D designing metering products. I have done some home wiring in the past, but that was before I had designed products that had to go through safety testing (UL 508, IEC 61010-1, etc.) So I am knowledgeable, but still somewhat new to the electrical code, and I just want to do things right so that it will be safe and legal when it comes time to sell the house.

not sure how a fan is going to work with a CFCI breaker. They sense load/spark and its really hit and miss on what motors they will work with.. I used to install new modular homes and having that on the outside plugs was a real PIA.. I could not run any of my power equipment while i was setting up the home always had to use a inside plug. When the home owners took over they would not even run their weed eater off the outside plug. I always suggested to them to install a standard GFI to the outside plug, i could not do it due to code but customer could.

 

[begreen]

We're done with tile showers. Overtime it is too hard to keep the mold out of the grout.

 

[bogieb]

Planning to remodel a bathroom. Currently, the shower has a plastic pan that is quite loud when water hits it. Thinking going with a tile shower floor might help quiet it down. Has anyone thought about a remodel through their "tinnitus lens?"

Maybe try an enamel shower base? I hate plastic shower pans because of the slight flex that I can feel (and I'm only 130#). When I remodeled my bath I put in an enamel over steel (or maybe cast iron). There is no flex, it is easy to clean and I don't find the sound if water hitting annoying.

 

[begreen]

Maybe try an enamel shower base? I hate plastic shower pans because of the slight flex that I can feel (and I'm only 130#). When I remodeled my bath I put in an enamel over steel (or maybe cast iron). There is no flex, it is easy to clean and I don't find the sound if water hitting annoying.

There are several options including metal, acrylic, fiberglass, resin, stone, etc. To reduce the sound, put a layer of insulation under the base.