EPA Ratings and Wood Usage/Heat Output?

[XmasTreefarmer]

I have no issues with 20% wood, personally. Drier is better, but 20% falls into my acceptable range.

Any surplus cut xmas trees are a good source of wood, too. They burn hot and will dry in one year. It's a lot of processing for a small amount of wood given the tree size, though.

Maybe you could give me a tip in that department if you don't mind the threadjack: How do you reliably seed a field of firs/pines? I planted maybe 50 seedlings that I got out of the woods this summer, and I don't know that any of them are going to make it.

I hear you on the wood - I am pretty happy at 20% - I sure can't see any steam or water coming out of the ends when I put it on a hot fire, but I'd be even happier with 18%.

I'll PM you on getting your question on getting your transplants to survive. I'm not much help on the forum yet, no one seems to have any questions about a 1979 Defiant , but I do know my trees!

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Sounds like you're really thinking this through, and enjoying the researching phase of the buying process. It'll be fun to see what you end up with. I'm curious - have you considered the Pacific Energy T6?

I would love the Pacific Energy T6! Unfortunately the form factor is not right for our space. We need a stove that is wide, but not deep like the T6. I have seen it in person and was so impressed with the look and build quality. And technically, you have the welded steel "floating" firebox in the cast iron housing ... just perfect really! I'd also like to stick with a stove that will take a 22" - 24" spit like my Defiant. I guess I've been using that size wood for so long, I'm not sure my saw will cut a shorter stick! And I do have 8 full cords on hand cut to that size ... the thought of shortening those up is daunting to me.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

I would love the Pacific Energy T6! Unfortunately the form factor is not right for our space. We need a stove that is wide, but not deep like the T6. I have seen it in person and was so impressed with the look and build quality. And technically, you have the welded steel "floating" firebox in the cast iron housing ... just perfect really! I'd also like to stick with a stove that will take a 22" - 24" spit like my Defiant. I guess I've been using that size wood for so long, I'm not sure my saw will cut a shorter stick! And I do have 8 full cords on hand cut to that size ... the thought of shortening those up is daunting to me.

And should have included that the T4 has the right form factor for us - love the look, but with it's 1.5 cu ft. firebox and 18" max log length - it's just too small for us. For either the T4 of the T6 I'd have to get used to the front load after having my left-side load for all these years - but I could do it!

 

[Highbeam]

Thermal mass is not important. Even if you did think it was, all of these iron/steel stoves weigh pretty much the same.

I’ve had a stone stove and it was really pretty but that stone’s high thermal mass was a negative in my application. Very slow to heat up. The cat stoves that burn 24 hours provide long, steady, controlled heat between reloads by burning wood. Being steel, they also start making heat fast!

 

[begreen]

Thermal mass is not important. Even if you did think it was, all of these iron/steel stoves weigh pretty much the same.

I’ve had a stone stove and it was really pretty but that stone’s high thermal mass was a negative in my application. Very slow to heat up. The cat stoves that burn 24 hours provide long, steady, controlled heat between reloads by burning wood. Being steel, they also start making heat fast!

Not really. The Alderlea weigh over 100# more than the Summit. That massive castiron jacket makes a very big difference in how the stove heats and releases the heat into the room. Unlike a soapstone stove the top of the steel body vents easily through the trivet top so it heats up pretty quickly. Not as quickly as the Castine did, but not too bad for an almost 600# stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

Many noncat owners use their "backup" heating system when temperatures are > about 45. In these temperatures, you have to get creative with how you run your noncat stove, which increases the work involved. In addition to making your life easier, using your backup system in the warmest part of the shoulder season shouldn't have a huge impact on your heating bill, since the system isn't having to work very hard to maintain house temps.. ..

Not this guy . . . when it gets cold inside the woodstove gets fired up. Once had the stove going on July 3rd since my wife was chilly.

I don't think with secondary burners have to be particularly creative . . . it's actually rather simple: smaller loads, lower BTU wood and most important of all -- do not reload the stove when the temps are forecast to get warmer (say in the 60s). Almost every time I have got the house too hot was in the shoulder season when I resisted the urge to just do the one fire and instead reloaded the stove . . . I learned that lesson a number of years ago though and haven't had any real issues for awhile.

 

[Highbeam]

Not really. The Alderlea weigh over 100# more than the Summit. That massive castiron jacket makes a very big difference in how the stove heats and releases the heat into the room. Unlike a soapstone stove the top of the steel body vents easily through the trivet top so it heats up pretty quickly. Not as quickly as the Castine did, but not too bad for an almost 600# stove.

Not really, be careful not to confuse thermal mass with stove design. Yes really. 500 vs. 600 lbs of iron, not as important as other things.

 

[Dogsharks]

Regarding the EPA rated stoves, a couple observations. I've been heating with wood for 40+ years. My first stove was a steel barrel and as a newly married man in a small cottage it kept us alive and quite warm. Then I got a Vermont Castings Elm, which I still have and I love that one. Then we got a fancy Rais and Whittis from Denmark, and finally an EPA rated Vogelzang from Tractor Supply Co (it was the biggest one I could find at the time).

The Vogelzang has a ceramic blanket a couple inches under the top plate and side ports to admit air into a stainless steel liner for secondary burn and it works. After a year with this thing in a large 1000 SF living room with 22-foot ceiling and fan, with about 30-feet of six foot high insulated glass, I just was not all that impressed with the amount of heat it was putting out. It was better than the Rais due to the fact it was a bigger firebox, or so I thought. One day as the stove was cranking out with a 600-degree reading on the top plate, I noticed the double wall side panels were putting out practically nothing, could almost touch it with a bare hand, meaning it was probably around 150 maybe upwards into 190 ish, and the outdoor flue (double wall stainless) was really hot (in fact the outdoor flue was hotter than the side of the EPA stove I was trying to heat my house with).

I have come to the conclusion that the EPA stoves are very well insulated to burn hot inside the stove and reduce emissions, but there is way too much heat going up that flue. I removed the metal side panels on the stove and it allowed a little more radiation into the room. I then removed the side firebrick, retaining bottom and rear firebrick, and now I am getting readings of 400-degrees or slightly more off the sides of the stove, it's putting out much more heat, and the outdoor flue is not as hot any more. It's actually performing more like the Vermont Castings round chamber stove where the bare metal radiates so much heat. I am sorta disgusted knowing how much work I put into cutting trees, hauling logs with the tractor, cutting them up and splitting and stacking, knowing the fancy EPA stove was just eating up wood for the sake of lower emissions.

Since this stove sits in a room with nothing near it on either side, I'm not concerned about side clearance. I am pleased with the added heat. I will probably add the firebrick and side panels next time it cools down for a cleaning, and will run it again as a comparison. I have been burning cherry, black tupelo, locust, poplar, and some elm, each wood having a purpose for when it is used.

I would appreciate any other observations of this kind regarding the blanket EPA secondary burn stoves. Please save code related commentary, my professional background is not void of an understanding of those issues, I'm just looking for real world hands-on comments. Many thanks,

 

[begreen]

What model Vogelzang is this? It could be the wrong stove was purchased, maybe twice. What you want is a highly radiant stove due to the cavernous room it is in. The Rais and Voglezang are more convective. I suspect the heat is there. If you put a thermometer up at the ceiling peak it wouldn't surprise me if it read over 100º. This is not unusual with high cathedral ceilings. Removing the firebrick is not a good idea. Not only will this reduce the firebox temperature and cleanliness of the burn, it also will compromise the steel. Taking the sides off is fine as long as the stove is 36" away from combustibles. A better choice might have been a Drolet Myriad. It is 3 cu ft and the same as the Drolet Baltic but without the sides. That increases clearances and the radiated heat from the sides. An Englander 30NC without the side shields could also be a good choice.

Note, the Elm is not made by Vermont Castings. It's made by Vermont Iron Stove Works. There's also the Bullerjan if you are looking for a blast of heat.


Are there ceiling fans in the room and are they usually running?