Found Out Why You Need A Second Saw

[FTG-05]

Grapple for the Kubota:

- pick up logs for transport, no dragging through the dirt; don't even have to get out of the seat.
- pick up logs to cut at waist level, both for delimbing and bucking; far safer no more pinching (watch your toes!); far easier and far better on your back

Downside: You have to buy the grapple ($700-$2000) and you have a third function on your tractor and FEL.

Upside: The grapple is one of the most useful tractor implements you can own and use.

 

[Tar12]

Grapple for the Kubota:

- pick up logs for transport, no dragging through the dirt; don't even have to get out of the seat.
- pick up logs to cut at waist level, both for delimbing and bucking; far safer no more pinching (watch your toes!); far easier and far better on your back

Downside: You have to buy the grapple ($700-$2000) and you have a third function on your tractor and FEL.

Upside: The grapple is one of the most useful tractor implements you can own and use.

Thats the ticket if you can afford it! I would like a tractor with a grapple up front and a winch plate on the back...while dreaming...

 

[Marshy]

Yep, best to have the experience to know, and situation that allows, cutting the compression wood first.

I seem to find myself in situations that don't allow that quite often, particularly out in the woods. Those wedges are like bumpers added to the gutters at the bowling alley. Adds a great margin of error and protects against lapses in judgement or mis-reads.

I'm ready to accept every advantage I can find.

Yes, they are indeed "training wheels". But, better to have them than not.

 

[jwfirebird]

i think a backhoe with a thumb would be the ultimate, because you can move it where you want before cutting, kind of limited on movements with a loader. but since i dont have the 4-5 k for that or the money for a loader, just having the three point is a bit better than just the quad was. i have a hitch for trailer moving, if i took the out there i could at least lift the logs out of the crud.

 

[kevin j]

I use wedges all the time as insurance. I also have two wedges on a piece of nylon cord about 2 feet apart. If it’s anything of significant size I set both wedges. one at about 10 o’clock position and one about 2 o’clock position. I found that on larger logs a single wedge at top can still pivot in the horizontal plane about that wedge and bind. if you have two it can’t pivot and bind.
Usually I just set them by hand smacking with the palm of my hand because you’re not trying to wedge open a closed cut just trying to prevent a cut from closing
The cord makes them easier to carry but mainly if the cut opens up and the wedge drops down quickly and touches the top of the running chain it doesn’t get launched into left field. the rope keeps the wedge from dropping down also as it is wider than the cut. it also keeps it from dropping onto the ground on the far side of the log so I don’t have to reach or bend over down to find it when the cut is done.
The wedges in the pic had plenty of use before the ropes. They often dropped down into the cut quickly as it opened up, contacted the chain, left orange shreds, and launched 10 feet into the weeds. I should replace them because of tghe ragged edges, but they work ok as still narrower than the kerf. I would not use them for felling of course.

I make my cut, move to the next location, drape the wedges and rope over the log next to it and then start cutting. idle, hold saw handle with right hand, set the far wedge with my left hand, set the near wedge with my left hand, and resume cutting. very fast just five or 10 second pause.

edit: add pic

 

[Ashful]

I also frequently use 2 wedges. I work with a lot of rounds over 1000 lb. each, and at that weight, they’ll squish a plastic wedge (or the wood fiber around it) like a supple grape.

Marshy, it’s easy enough to espouse on the idea of cutting compression wood first, but this is often not possible when working on a tree in the woods. I have the experience to know when a cut might lead to a pinched bar, but not always the luxury of another option. That’s where the wedges come in. Knowing when one is called for before a bar gets pinched is every bit as valuable as identifying the means to cut without them, if you are so lucky to work in a place where you can avoid needing them.

 

[BIGChrisNH]

This job site was/is pretty gnarly with snow, brush, branches, and large trunks down all over the place. The issues started with the "Tree Guy" who showed up, felled a bunch in many different directions, and then never showed back up again, which left us with a big, dangerous mess to clean up. I did order some plastic wedges and will be working with them until we are done cleaning all of this up. I'm pretty good with reading tension under good conditions, but not with these conditions. We're under pressure to have the land cleared by April, when the builders are due to show up and begin digging the new foundation. The good news is we're about 75% of the way there now, and since I've been felling the remaining trees we are putting them where we want, rather than just on top of one another at crazy angles. Thanks for the advice again everyone, very much appreciated!

 

[jackatc1]

Pinching your bar is more or less inconvenient, when working in a tangle.
But spring poles and trapped branch's can kill.

 

[Montanalocal]

I have been able to get out of trouble a couple of times by removing the bar and then using a spare chain to make a new cut. Taking time to use wedges is a better idea but it isn't always easy to see when the bar may get pinched.

PA,

Question. You say you remove the bar and add a spare chain. Does that mean that when you get a pinch, it is only the chain that is pinched, and not the bar, so that you can remove the bar? I have always had a second saw, so I have not had to do this, but I would have thought that the bar as well as the chain would be pinched, so that people with only one saw would probably want to have a second bar as well as a second chain so they could unbolt the power head and install a second bar and chain. Not so?

 

[Tar12]

My bud is a logger of 30 years...he still has his training wheels on...uses them every day.

 

[kevin j]

Not to be picky, but technically we don’t ‘read tension’ as much as want to ‘read compression’ but the point. Is the same.

Good point bringing up springpoles. Can be dangerous. On springpoles, I was taught to make a bunch of cuts on the top, tension side, every 6 inches or so along the bend, and maybe only an inch deep, or less on small branches. From 5 to 10 depending on situation, then go back again and touch them another half inch or inch. Repeat as needed, making each cut a bit deeper each pass. It is much faster than the video carving method, and I think the operator is further away and in better position to watch the branch instead of watching the saw bar. It eventually relieves the bending stress by allowing a small amount of bending at many different locations.

 

[Ashful]

Not to be picky, but technically we don’t ‘read tension’ as much as want to ‘read compression’ but the point. Is the same.

Good point bringing up springpoles. Can be dangerous. On springpoles, I was taught to make a bunch of cuts on the top, tension side, every 6 inches or so along the bend, and maybe only an inch deep, or less on small branches. From 5 to 10 depending on situation, then go back again and touch them another half inch or inch. Repeat as needed, making each cut a bit deeper each pass. It is much faster than the video carving method, and I think the operator is further away and in better position to watch the branch instead of watching the saw bar. It eventually relieves the bending stress by allowing a small amount of bending at many different locations.

I have often used a similar technique to you, Kevin. It seems that's all I was doing for three years following hurricane Sandy, we had more blow down than one could ever hope to get at, before it rots.

I think the reason behind the carving method is that it's done under the springpole, on the compression side. If it lets loose unexpectedly, it's not going to throw the saw back in your face, as could happen when working on the top/tension side.

 

[Tar12]

I use wedges all the time as insurance. I also have two wedges on a piece of nylon cord about 2 feet apart. If it’s anything of significant size I set both wedges. one at about 10 o’clock position and one about 2 o’clock position. I found that on larger logs a single wedge at top can still pivot in the horizontal plane about that wedge and bind. if you have two it can’t pivot and bind.
Usually I just set them by hand smacking with the palm of my hand because you’re not trying to wedge open a closed cut just trying to prevent a cut from closing
The cord makes them easier to carry but mainly if the cut opens up and the wedge drops down quickly and touches the top of the running chain it doesn’t get launched into left field. it also keeps it from dropping onto the ground on the far side of the log so I don’t have to reach or bend over down to find it when the cut is done.
I make my cut, move to the next location, drape the wedges and rope over the log next to it and then start cutting. idle, hold saw handle with right hand, set the far wedge with my left hand, set the near wedge with my left hand, and resume cutting. very fast just five or 10 second pause.

I double wedge the big boys as well in the same manner...most of the time I have a helper setting wedges and we stay in tandem and knock a big log out pretty quick.

 

[Allagash350]

I always kept an extra bar and chain with me while cutting trees down.
I figured if I was using the big saw (441) to cut a tree down, and the bar got pinched, I would want to finish it with the big saw.
In general If I pinch it and can’t get it out I just swap the bar out. Takes no time at all and I do less damage to the chain from not frigging around with it.

I can’t say it happens often, but it happens.

 

[Hasufel]

Usually I just set them by hand smacking with the palm of my hand because you’re not trying to wedge open a closed cut just trying to prevent a cut from closing

If I'm cutting a log where the bottom part is hidden by leaves or dirt then I'll pound a wedge in extra hard--that way the cut will start to open up when I get close to the bottom and it helps keeps me from running the bar into the dirt.

 

[ben94122]

I think we may have missed the point of this thread, which is this: OP, tell your wife, girlfriend, accountant, or bookie that the internet thinks you definitely need a second saw to avoid this potentially dangerous situation in the future. Preferably a second, bigger saw.
Good luck!

 

[thisoldgoat]

I think we may have missed the point of this thread, which is this: OP, tell your wife, girlfriend, accountant, or bookie that the internet thinks you definitely need a second saw to avoid this potentially dangerous situation in the future. Preferably a second, bigger saw.
Good luck!

I like your talk!

 

[BIGChrisNH]

Haha, ben94122, I definitely picked one up already. The last trip up there I had both saws, no pinching, but I am now ready with a second saw and wedges. That's exactly the problem I was running into, these are big pine logs sometimes half buried in snow and brush. We are getting to the end of it now, most of the cuts are clean and straight forward with good visibility.