Enviro Milan wont stay lit - Burn pot full of pellets

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
HT beat me to it- it does look like the burnpot liner isn't sitting down all the way- when it sits in the burnpot air comes in through the big pipe on the right and up through the liner holes. Could it be yours has distorted or something in the burnpot itself to keep air from dispersing into the burnpot liner as its supposed to? The convection blower flap is only for the uneven warm air being delivered into the room, not this burning issue... did you say you had a break in the droptube area? Could that affect air flow anyway coming into the burnpot and liner??

There was no break in the tube, there's a pic in a prior post. The welding had chipped off the top of the tube, I've since patched it with cement at Enviros request but I still get the same issue. I may mess around with the burnpot a bit because there may be something distorted?
This is for sure an airflow problem but I (we) can't figure out what's causing it.
 
There was no break in the tube, there's a pic in a prior post. The welding had chipped off the top of the tube, I've since patched it with cement at Enviros request but I still get the same issue. I may mess around with the burnpot a bit because there may be something distorted?
This is for sure an airflow problem but I (we) can't figure out what's causing it.
Definitely need to pound out liner and get it seated down to where the holes are below burn pot holder

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
Was looking at the pix- did you take the air tube and ignitor tube cover out? That pix looks like stuff was removed after you took out the 3 cast pieces? It looks like an air flow issue, dark exhaust, carbon everywhere.. seems air is not being directed through the burnpot and liner correctly..

Yes I took the cover out to clean behind it, and blow behind it to be sure there was no blockage. I also took a pipe cleaner and cleaned the pipe to be sure there was no blockage. Your observation is dead on, I've had the stove for 6 years now and I've never had dark exhaust or creosote build up behind the wall until this issue started, the crap you see all over the wall in the pic has never, ever been there before. Normally I clean the ash off the wall and there is no creosote or darkness anywhere. Since this issue started every time I take the back wall off it looks worse. Also - the inside of the stove get very dark and dirty and glass gets dirty quick. There's a blockage or break somewhere but short of taking the entire stove apart I can't find it. I've cleaned until I can't clean anymore.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180322_130548.jpg
    IMG_20180322_130548.jpg
    196.6 KB · Views: 162
HI md- understand your frustration, I am a big Enviro fan, have sold installed and cleaned many many Enviros. I have found few that I could not figure out, but this season alas, yours is the 2nd one I haven't been able to help- the first was an Empress FS. I find this design (the milan and empress inserts) to be better than the FS model, the cast heat exchanger is quite the nice design, seems more reliable too. This kind of issue is frustrating, espec if no one seems to be able to help... I hope you get it, if you would please let us know too, so we can benefit from it and of course congratulate you then for sticking with her..
 
  • Like
Reactions: hearthtools
HI md- understand your frustration, I am a big Enviro fan, have sold installed and cleaned many many Enviros. I have found few that I could not figure out, but this season alas, yours is the 2nd one I haven't been able to help- the first was an Empress FS. I find this design (the milan and empress inserts) to be better than the FS model, the cast heat exchanger is quite the nice design, seems more reliable too. This kind of issue is frustrating, espec if no one seems to be able to help... I hope you get it, if you would please let us know too, so we can benefit from it and of course congratulate you then for sticking with her..

1st problem in 6 years so I can't complain. I'm going to stick with this until I get it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stovelark
So what are the feed times on and off for both and low feed?



Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
So what are the feed times on and off for both and low feed?



Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you're asking but the feed rate is set at the default right now at #4. Over the years I have never changed this from default but since this has started I have moved the feed rate up and down to see if it will help with no luck. Here's what the manual says about the feed rate when set at 4.

Used to change the feed rate trims in ¼ second increments for all feed settings. When this button is pressed, all the light will light up on the Heat Output Indicator except for the one that shows the current setting; the default setting is the number 4 light. To adjust the setting hold the Feed Rate Trim button down and press the Heat Level up or down buttons to adjust the setting
 
Another thing I've noticed, and you (The Stove Doc) maybe on to something with the auger. Many times there is no flame in the pot, it's more or less just hot amber's across the bottom of the burn pot, then eventually more pellets fall and there's a flame then it works foe a few minutes then there's just hot amber's across the bottom. So I got to thinking - if there is no flame and just hot amber's maybe when the pellets are dropping the new pellets aren't catching on fire fast enough and this is one of the reasons the stove smothers itself, I think this still points to an airflow issue but it's just something else I've noticed.

Should I set the auger trim higher so it feeds more pellets and maybe this will keep a flame in the pot and not smother itself?
 
Might as well add more pics in case it helps.

IMG_20180322_130243.jpg IMG_20180322_130602.jpg
 

Attachments

  • MVIMG_20180322_130307.jpg
    MVIMG_20180322_130307.jpg
    110 KB · Views: 228
  • burnpot.jpg
    burnpot.jpg
    245.7 KB · Views: 229
  • burnpotliner.jpg
    burnpotliner.jpg
    182.8 KB · Views: 219
Another thing I've noticed, and you (The Stove Doc) maybe on to something with the auger. Many times there is no flame in the pot, it's more or less just hot amber's across the bottom of the burn pot, then eventually more pellets fall and there's a flame then it works foe a few minutes then there's just hot amber's across the bottom. So I got to thinking - if there is no flame and just hot amber's maybe when the pellets are dropping the new pellets aren't catching on fire fast enough and this is one of the reasons the stove smothers itself, I think this still points to an airflow issue but it's just something else I've noticed.

Should I set the auger trim higher so it feeds more pellets and maybe this will keep a flame in the pot and not smother itself?
I was meaning what is the feed time in seconds.
Feeds for 2 seconds
Then
Off for
17 seconds?
And so forth for each heat setting
And yes you need to check the auger motor and make sure it spins for the full charge.
066992b5b188e5bd666a38fe03a35225.jpg


Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
Another thing I've noticed, and you (The Stove Doc) maybe on to something with the auger. Many times there is no flame in the pot, it's more or less just hot amber's across the bottom of the burn pot, then eventually more pellets fall and there's a flame then it works foe a few minutes then there's just hot amber's across the bottom. So I got to thinking - if there is no flame and just hot amber's maybe when the pellets are dropping the new pellets aren't catching on fire fast enough and this is one of the reasons the stove smothers itself, I think this still points to an airflow issue but it's just something else I've noticed.

Should I set the auger trim higher so it feeds more pellets and maybe this will keep a flame in the pot and not smother itself?
Motor
d8fc11277394640f39b41ffecf1ba13f.jpg


Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
I can time the feed rate.. I've looked at the auger how you explained and the auger seems to be working and turn in as it should.
 
At this point i think the stove has to be taken outside and do a major cleaning. Then when you think you’ve cleaned everything hook a leaf blower to the exhaust port at the back of the stove and let her rip. While blower is running tap on the firewall with a rubber mallet to loosen any crap that might be clogging things up. Then run the stove while yoh have it outfide and report back
 
At this point i think the stove has to be taken outside and do a major cleaning. Then when you think you’ve cleaned everything hook a leaf blower to the exhaust port at the back of the stove and let her rip. While blower is running tap on the firewall with a rubber mallet to loosen any crap that might be clogging things up. Then run the stove while yoh have it outfide and report back
Crom his photos it looks all clear
Just not sure of cap

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
Agree but the poor guy has done just about everything but the LBT
 
  • Like
Reactions: md2002
Agree but the poor guy has done just about everything but the LBT
He did blow the vent from inside because snow on roof

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
I’m sure his liner is good but the stove is clogged up somewhere. Being an insert it’s not the easiest thing to do but doing it will confirm the stove is indeed cleaned and cleared. It would be my next step
 
The snow has cleared and I have been up to the roof, the cap is clear and I've done the leaf blower trick, I also blew as much as I could with a shop vac in the house. If this isn't fixed soon the plan is to take it outside once the spring hits and use a leaf blower on it and take it apart, completely apart. the ONLY thing I have yet to take apart is the auger and all the metal directly behind the stove, where the convection fan blows the air through. I'm pretty sure the stove can't be cleaned anymore without taking it apart piece by piece.
 
I was meaning what is the feed time in seconds.
Feeds for 2 seconds
Then
Off for
17 seconds?
And so forth for each heat setting
And yes you need to check the auger motor and make sure it spins for the full charge.
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

I checked the feed rights, seem about right. I found it tough to get exact timing but it seems close to what it should be.
 
I had some more time to work on this last night and I hooked up the voltage meter to the convection blower to test that and it tested fine, I also looked at the flap mentioned in an earlier post and I moved that a bit. I replaced the ash pan gasket (even though it's only a year old) and banged out the burnpot liner so it sits all the way in the burnpot. I also cleaned out the hopper of fines. The creosote is getting out of control, my stove never had it and now it all on the back walls (as you saw in the pics) and is moving it way to the side of the stove (pic) and on the glass. This is very unusual, my stove NEVER had creosote build up. The air flow is messed up. I also had some strange black ash this time around.

The results weren't much different, the stove burned on setting #4 the whole day but would not burn on setting #3. I turned up the exhaust motor setting from the #2 default to #3 and then #4 and the stove seemed to burn on setting 3 for longer but it eventually went out.

Since the nice weather is coming this is no longer urgent so I'm going to stop using it and take it out into the garage when I get a chance and run it with no air restriction and leaf blow the heck out of it. I'll keep everyone up to date in the rare case I figure this out and it can help someone in the future.

Added some more pics because I can.

Now I have a whole new set of problems. After testing the convection blower voltage I forgot to unplug the stove and I dropped the lead on metal and caused a spark - the stove still seems fine but the convection blower no longer spins. I'm hoping it's a fuse. The convection blower thread have been stripped too, probably from taking it off so much. Do those helicoil things work to fixed stripped threads?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180403_181236.jpg
    IMG_20180403_181236.jpg
    263.3 KB · Views: 191
  • IMG_20180403_190316.jpg
    IMG_20180403_190316.jpg
    142.3 KB · Views: 238
  • IMG_20180403_190843.jpg
    IMG_20180403_190843.jpg
    254.4 KB · Views: 220
  • IMG_20180403_191212.jpg
    IMG_20180403_191212.jpg
    102.9 KB · Views: 243
  • IMG_20180403_191305.jpg
    IMG_20180403_191305.jpg
    207.6 KB · Views: 239
  • MVIMG_20180403_185032.jpg
    MVIMG_20180403_185032.jpg
    162.8 KB · Views: 235
The convection blower thread have been stripped too, probably from taking it off so much. Do those helicoil things work to fixed stripped threads?
Im thinking they are sheet metal screws and helicoil wont work. Might have to try a larger screw
 
I had some more time to work on this last night and I hooked up the voltage meter to the convection blower to test that and it tested fine, I also looked at the flap mentioned in an earlier post and I moved that a bit. I replaced the ash pan gasket (even though it's only a year old) and banged out the burnpot liner so it sits all the way in the burnpot. I also cleaned out the hopper of fines. The creosote is getting out of control, my stove never had it and now it all on the back walls (as you saw in the pics) and is moving it way to the side of the stove (pic) and on the glass. This is very unusual, my stove NEVER had creosote build up. The air flow is messed up. I also had some strange black ash this time around.

The results weren't much different, the stove burned on setting #4 the whole day but would not burn on setting #3. I turned up the exhaust motor setting from the #2 default to #3 and then #4 and the stove seemed to burn on setting 3 for longer but it eventually went out.

Since the nice weather is coming this is no longer urgent so I'm going to stop using it and take it out into the garage when I get a chance and run it with no air restriction and leaf blow the heck out of it. I'll keep everyone up to date in the rare case I figure this out and it can help someone in the future.

Added some more pics because I can.

Now I have a whole new set of problems. After testing the convection blower voltage I forgot to unplug the stove and I dropped the lead on metal and caused a spark - the stove still seems fine but the convection blower no longer spins. I'm hoping it's a fuse. The convection blower thread have been stripped too, probably from taking it off so much. Do those helicoil things work to fixed stripped threads?
Hope is just the fuse
You definitely have a combustion air problem.
Did you check combustion voltage for each setting?

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 
Hope is just the fuse
You definitely have a combustion air problem.
Did you check combustion voltage for each setting?

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

Yes, it all checked out per the manual, seems to be working as expected and the voltage it should. They weren't exact numbers but they were going up by .5 volts or whatever the manual said for each setting increase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hearthtools