EAB evacuation time from dead wood

[Ashful]

My somewhat unwarranted impression is that once EAB has done it’s damage, it moves on. This brings up a question for any wood harvester, in terms of dragging the pest onto their own property, within legal county or state-wide quarantine limits.

I have a friend who’s property has been completely devastated by EAB. Meanwhile, I’ve been treating my trees, and have been holding the pest at bay with pretty good success. So, if I bring several cords of dead ash from his property to mine, what are the chances I’m going to be hauling home a bunch of borers?

Yes, I realize they’re already all around me, but at the same time, I would like to avoid bringing home hundreds or thousands of these pests, and stacking them directly under my own ash trees. Insecticides can be effective, on my mostlty-healthy trees, but only within some reasonable limits.

Has anyone seen published data indicating how many years dead an ash tree should be, before it’s considered borer-free?

 

[TedyOH]

I cut one up last year that was standing dead for about 5 years....when i was splitting it one landed on my arm. Coincidence? Don't know..

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[tadmaz]

Here is my experience. Wood cut in March is now seeing full adult borers bore their way out of splits that have been stacked since April. I also cut down a totally dead ash tree and within a few weeks of the rounds sitting in my garage a whole bunch of adult borers are all over my garage. I have 5 acres of woods with only a couple of ash trees, so I took the risk and sure enough I'm sure I've brought some to my area. There are tons of dead ash trees all over when driving within a mile though.

 

[Ashful]

Thanks, guys. Is there a time of year when the trees can be assumed borer-free, or at least egg-free?

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah the only time I've seen the Ash borer bug around my house was when I was bucking/splitting EAB killed Ash...

 

[Ashful]

Yeah the only time I've seen the Ash borer bug around my house was when I was bucking/splitting EAB killed Ash...

Conclusion?

 

[brenndatomu]

Conclusion?

They were hiding in the wood I was working up

 

[heavy hammer]

As others have stated I only have noticed them, when cutting and splitting. I think the safest time would be in the dead of winter with the cold. But that is just because they would be dormint. Just my thoughts.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

My somewhat unwarranted impression is that once EAB has done it’s damage, it moves on. This brings up a question for any wood harvester, in terms of dragging the pest onto their own property, within legal county or state-wide quarantine limits.

I have a friend who’s property has been completely devastated by EAB. Meanwhile, I’ve been treating my trees, and have been holding the pest at bay with pretty good success. So, if I bring several cords of dead ash from his property to mine, what are the chances I’m going to be hauling home a bunch of borers?

Yes, I realize they’re already all around me, but at the same time, I would like to avoid bringing home hundreds or thousands of these pests, and stacking them directly under my own ash trees. Insecticides can be effective, on my mostlty-healthy trees, but only within some reasonable limits.

Has anyone seen published data indicating how many years dead an ash tree should be, before it’s considered borer-free?

Some battles are not worth fighting. Pumping poison into the ground to hold off the inevitable seems an exception to generally intelligent behavior. Particularly if you have a well. You have lemons, make lemonade. Bring the ash in, burn it up, then, cut down yours as they die, and burn them, too. Then get on with it, and plant the future.

Kenny Rogers provided you game plan- know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run...

 

[Ashful]

Some battles are not worth fighting. Pumping poison into the ground to hold off the inevitable seems an exception to generally intelligent behavior. Particularly if you have a well. You have lemons, make lemonade. Bring the ash in, burn it up, then, cut down yours as they die, and burn them, too. Then get on with it, and plant the future.

Kenny Rogers provided you game plan- know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run...

Yeah, I've been struggling with this. But make no mistake, I am NOT using root soak technique. I'm doing basal trunk spray, only. This should vastly reduce the amount of chemical that makes it into the soil, but it does rely heavily on me getting the application timing just right.

... and thanks for calling me "generally intelligent."

 

[beatlefan]

I just picked up a cord of ash rounds that were cut and stacked at least one year ago. It was old enough that the bark was peeling off in places. When I split it up this weekend, I saw at least one adult EAB while processing it.

 

[Ashful]

Hmm. Not good, beetlefan. The place where I cut has room for me to leave the logs lay a year, so I was thinking that’d be my plan. I could even buck down to rounds, but that would make hailing them home slow and painful, as I can move logs much easier than rounds. These are four ash trees with about 80 feet of clean 24” diameter trunk, each. Perfect firewood, if not for this damn bug.

I wonder how they’d react to dinotefuran in a dead log?

 

[vtwoodheater]

I just split some ash yesterday that had been stacked in rounds since last september. 24" diameter or so, bark falling off, drier than heck. Had full grown beetles, larvae? stage, and holes bored all through it. Started moving around once I started splitting, stacking.

This is going to sit outside for two years before I get to it, so hopefully no more bugs.

 

[Ashful]

Wow... what an amazing bugger this EAB is. Devastating.

 

[ben94122]

Here in California, we can completely tarp piles with clear plastic (akin to making a solar kiln, but without the ventilation) to kill the bark beetles which are decimating our ponderosa pine forests.

http://www.fire.ca.gov/downloads/tree_notes/treenote3.pdf

A similar method may work for emerald ash borers as well if you get the temperatures inside the wood high enough to kill the beetles, although it didn't work in at least one study

https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/disturbance/invasive_species/eab/control_management/survival_in_firewood/

The difference may be that bark beetles are just under the bark, and EAB bore deeply into the wood; recommendations to kill EAB are a core temperature of only 140 degrees F for 60 minutes, which seems achievable in a solar kiln.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Yeah, I've been struggling with this. But make no mistake, I am NOT using root soak technique. I'm doing basal trunk spray, only. This should vastly reduce the amount of chemical that makes it into the soil, but it does rely heavily on me getting the application timing just right.

... and thanks for calling me "generally intelligent."

That's how I described your general behavior. Even if I knew you well, I'd not comment on you, I'm completely unqualified.

Glad to hear you're not using the ground soaking technique. Long after I'd moved out of their house, my parents did, to try to save some long-gone hemlocks that had an adelgid infestation. Right above their well-head. I was upset about it when I found out.

 

[fireview2788]

When all the ash are gone the EAB will be gone. No food source= no bugs. Hopefully, someone is keeping a stock of seeds so we can start over and then as stupid humans we'll do something stupid to re-introduce the EAB and start the entire process over.


fv

 

[Ashful]

When all the ash are gone the EAB will be gone. No food source= no bugs. Hopefully, someone is keeping a stock of seeds so we can start over and then as stupid humans we'll do something stupid to re-introduce the EAB and start the entire process over.


fv

EAB will never be gone. Their numbers will wane, with the loss of their favorite food source, but a few will always remain, and they can always resurge. Remember, the current devastation started with just a few imported bugs.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah that was my impression too, that they would eat other stuff, just preferred Ash

 

[fireview2788]

They do not eat any other species of tree. No ash=no food=no bugs. Dutch elm disease is a prime example. The trees developed a resistance to it so they survived.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/documents/E-2943.pdf

 

[Ashful]

They do not eat any other species of tree. No ash=no food=no bugs. Dutch elm disease is a prime example. The trees developed a resistance to it so they survived.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/documents/E-2943.pdf

Whoa... waitaminnit. Elm trees did not “develop” resistance. Some cultivars of elm just happened to be resistant, so those few survived, when all the rest died. Now those survivors have multiplied, both naturally and thru cultivation. The cultivars that were destroyed are gone, they have not mutated to form resistance.

Now on EAB, it appears there will never be zero ash trees, and so I suspect there will never be zero borers. Even folks in areas completely devastated by the EAB are reporting the emergence of new ash seedlings. Think cyclical migration, following the path of food source destruction and recovery.

 

[Ashful]

Getting back on-topic, any opinions on this plan?

1. Fell trees, buck to 15 foot lengths.
2. Stage logs on saplings (i.e. up off the ground a few inches) on-site in a field for 2 years.
3. Haul home, buck, split stack.

This is based on the articles that @ben94122 posted, indicating they might evacuate the wood after a 2-year life cycle. While the article was clear that the second-year crop of bugs was much greater in the un-processed logs than in split wood, it didn’t seem clear to me on what might remain in logs after 2 years. Perhaps the paper was written before that conclusion could be made.

 

[Pertzbro]

If you're that adamant about using the ash as firewood while at the same time protecting your trees... I'd do the extra work and fell, buck, and split, stack on site. Then let them dry for 2 years before moving to your property. It's a ton of extra work but might be worth it.

I have not been treating my Ash and fully expect them to all be dead in 5-6 years. I've moved fully split wood of 10+ cords of all Ash to my property where I have 30+ash trees. Did not see any sign of bugs in that firewood though.

 

[Ashful]

It’s more “inevitable” than “adamant”. There is so much ash dying around us, that I expect it’s all I’ll be offered, in the coming few years. Just trying to figure a way to deal with it, since the offers have already started pouring in.

Splitting on-site, and hauling home split wood might not be practical, given my time constraints. But, leaving it sit longer than 2 years might not be a problem. Heck, I could probably let it sit 5 years, not that I think that advisable.

 

[Diabel]

EAB has gone though here. It is all gone and so are the ash trees.
Your trees are doomed. Think about the replacement.