My not so great experience with FPX catalyst insert - Advice?

[joewasilla28]

Hey, don't get discouraged . It's not bad of insert. I heat my 2000 sq ft 24/7 loading it 3 times when it's cold in CT with subpar wood. It has flaws but it still decent heater and by far best looking insert on a market to this day. I bought steel plate on ebay, Made L form of it and put between tube and baffle. Sits like it was there from start.

Not discouraged. I do like the heat output - it's incredible - and enjoy the beauty of the fires, especially when the combuster is engaged. Looks amazing. Just think for the price point, there should be zero issues. Having to make modifications to the design, although genius on your part, isn't something I expected. Now, so far so good for me. Cat seems to be working as advertised, no problem. Hopefully that continues, o/w I'm going to do what you did with the steel plate, although I'm leery. Is it working out for you?
Also, the glass on my unit gets real black every night. Haven't had any success burning it off with real hot fires. I like the glass clean and have been using a baking soda paste that works great, but wonder what your experience has been in this regard. I understand that as the fire burns out the glass can get dirty. Don't mind cleaning it, but wonder if there's any tricks to keeping it clean.
Happy New Year!

 

[joewasilla28]

I just bought a attachment to blow the cat out with a compressor. Not too high pressure but enough to get it clear. I'll update as to how well it works.

Just curious, how high is your chimney?

Hey there Carlv123. Have you had any better experiences with your insert? Sorry to hear of the issues you're having. I don't have any experience in this arena, so can't offer any advice, but good to see the dealer is gonna work with you to fix things. I'm very interested to see how it works out, and wish you the best. With regards to your question, and sorry my reply is so late, my chimney only goes up one story. Not sure of actual feet, but it's on the main floor (insert on main floor) with 8 foot ceiling, and chimney extends thru attic, which I can't stand upright in...attic is probably 5-51/2 feet high. Hope that proves useful.

 

[Ashful]

Hey Joe, it's common for people to complain about dirty glass on cat stoves, but that's because we're often running them at such low burn rates. If you're only getting 5 - 6 hour burns, then there's something entirely different going on, here.

I know that's no help, it's just a reference point, as you try to figure out your issue. I wonder if it's possible that the crazy high draft is causing the air wash to flow in a strange way and not properly curtain the glass. Sounds counter-intuitive, but I've seen a lot of counter-intuitive stuff, on this forum.

 

[joewasilla28]

Hey Joe, it's common for people to complain about dirty glass on cat stoves, but that's because we're often running them at such low burn rates. If you're only getting 5 - 6 hour burns, then there's something entirely different going on, here.

I know that's no help, it's just a reference point, as you try to figure out your issue. I wonder if it's possible that the crazy high draft is causing the air wash to flow in a strange way and not properly curtain the glass. Sounds counter-intuitive, but I've seen a lot of counter-intuitive stuff, on this forum.

Ashful, thanks for your reply. I've seen a lot of your comments and can tell you have great experience and knowledge on stoves and inserts! Anyway, I don't, but have been learning from you guys! So I'm guessing that the high draft I have is largely due to the relative short height of the chimney? It's also inside - or should I say not on an exterior wall, but not sure how that affects draft. However, I do know that the few fires we had before getting the insert, never produced a smoky ssmell or haze in the house....the smoke went straight up and out, no problem. What, if anything, would you suggest might be worthwhile to do? So far, have been using very good wood that the previous owner left. Moisture content at or under 22%, mostly. That pile is dwindling however, and I've been hauling some dead stuff off the mountain (I call it a mountain, being a downstater, but really a big hill) behind our house, but haven't burned any yet. As far as the 5 to 6 hour burn times, I think it's cause I'm not packing the box....more in an effort to conserve the good wood than anything else. There's a few massive black locusts we'll be removing soon, due to proximity to the house, and that should be a good amount of wood for next year, it it dries enough. All in all, so far, we are pleased with this insert.
Thanks again!

 

[Ashful]

Sorry, Joe. My fault. When I commented on high draft, I had you mixed up with carlv123. There are two conversations going in parallel on this thread, and I got them crossed in my own head. All of my comments there are void, I was applying Carl’s situation to your last question. Sorry about that.

If you’re seeing dirty glass, it’s likely one of the following:

1. Poor air wash design or adjustment. Jotul used to have an adjustable baffle on their old air wash, and it took some playing to optimize it.

2. Wet wood. I’ve seen this claimed, and I suppose it could be true, but I’ve not experienced this myself.

3. Wood too close to the glass. Wood less than an inch or two from the glass interrupts the air wash, and will always cause dirty glass on my stoves.

4. Burning low. When I stretch my burn times into the 24-hour realm, my glass gets kinda dirty. If I run at a rate that gets me 12 hours or less, it stays clean.

 

[joewasilla28]

Sorry, Joe. My fault. When I commented on high draft, I had you mixed up with carlv123. There are two conversations going in parallel on this thread, and I got them crossed in my own head. All of my comments there are void, I was applying Carl’s situation to your last question. Sorry about that.

If you’re seeing dirty glass, it’s likely one of the following:

1. Poor air wash design or adjustment. Jotul used to have an adjustable baffle on their old air wash, and it took some playing to optimize it.

2. Wet wood. I’ve seen this claimed, and I suppose it could be true, but I’ve not experienced this myself.

3. Wood too close to the glass. Wood less than an inch or two from the glass interrupts the air wash, and will always cause dirty glass on my stoves.

4. Burning low. When I stretch my burn times into the 24-hour real, my glass gets kinda dirty. If I run at a rate that gets me 12 hours or less, it stays clean.

Lol, no prob!
I understand 1,2 and 3, but how do you get those burn times? I can only guess you have extremely dry timber and that you load the firebox to the max?

 

[Ashful]

Lol, no prob!
I understand 1,2 and 3, but how do you get those burn times? I can only guess you have extremely dry timber and that you load the firebox to the max?

I burn stoves made by Blaze King. Their mid-size stoves can turn way down to stretch a single load for 30 - 36 hours, depending on wood species, and their largest model will run two days in a single load. We call it “low and slow”, or “black box mode”, since there is almost no visible fire when running that low. The wood just appears to slowly evaporate. Great when need for heat is low, such as sunny days in a room with high solar gain, or spring and fall shoulder season. It can result in some crusty glass, after a few days in that mode, most of us running this brand burn hot for 30 minutes at each reload to cook most of it off, with varying success.

 

[Tegbert]

Ashful, thanks for your reply. I've seen a lot of your comments and can tell you have great experience and knowledge on stoves and inserts! Anyway, I don't, but have been learning from you guys! So I'm guessing that the high draft I have is largely due to the relative short height of the chimney? It's also inside - or should I say not on an exterior wall, but not sure how that affects draft. However, I do know that the few fires we had before getting the insert, never produced a smoky ssmell or haze in the house....the smoke went straight up and out, no problem. What, if anything, would you suggest might be worthwhile to do? So far, have been using very good wood that the previous owner left. Moisture content at or under 22%, mostly. That pile is dwindling however, and I've been hauling some dead stuff off the mountain (I call it a mountain, being a downstater, but really a big hill) behind our house, but haven't burned any yet. As far as the 5 to 6 hour burn times, I think it's cause I'm not packing the box....more in an effort to conserve the good wood than anything else. There's a few massive black locusts we'll be removing soon, due to proximity to the house, and that should be a good amount of wood for next year, it it dries enough. All in all, so far, we are pleased with this insert.
Thanks again!

What is the height of your chimney? Next time on a hot reload or warm reload with coals left open the bypass for a minute or two and then open the door slowly see if that helps. If not try turning the air to low right before opening the door it helps some people. How old is the house? Have you tried cracking a window near it to see if it helps?

I get a little smoke spillage on my rockport usually only on cold starts on a cold flue. But I have had draft reversal happen in warmer weather trying to light the stoves when the kitchen hood vent was on.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[joewasilla28]

What is the height of your chimney? Next time on a hot reload or warm reload with coals left open the bypass for a minute or two and then open the door slowly see if that helps. If not try turning the air to low right before opening the door it helps some people. How old is the house? Have you tried cracking a window near it to see if it helps?

I get a little smoke spillage on my rockport usually only on cold starts on a cold flue. But I have had draft reversal happen in warmer weather trying to light the stoves when the kitchen hood vent was on.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

Tegbert, happy new year!
I don't get lots of blow back from the insert, except when starting a new fire, but I'm slowly getting better at s setting up a new blaze so the door can be closed quicker. Our chimney isn't high...only a floor and a half (attic). The house was built in 1975 and seems pretty well insulated with little to no drafts. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Carlv123]

Update: The manufacturer wasn't much help except to tell me I'm screwed and it allows 10% air in no matter what. Tech said 20ft is the max chimney height. Hopefully the dealer can rig a damper to use with this. Makes me wonder how a dealer with 40+ years experience didn't catch this.

 

[Hot Stuff]

Tech said 20ft is the max chimney height.

So then how do they explain a max chimney height of 33ft in the manual? Something doesn’t add up.

Right there on page 11...
https://www.lopistoves.com/TravisDocs/100-01273.pdf

 

[weatherguy]

Update: The manufacturer wasn't much help except to tell me I'm screwed and it allows 10% air in no matter what. Tech said 20ft is the max chimney height. Hopefully the dealer can rig a damper to use with this. Makes me wonder how a dealer with 40+ years experience didn't catch this.

I thought your chimney was 18 feet? Should be the optimal length for any stove

 

[Carlv123]

I thought your chimney was 18 feet? Should be the optimal length for any stove

The chimney is 30ft. I'm not sure who is worse, the dealer or the manufacturer. Manual says 33ft, tech says 20ft and I get shafted.

If anything maybe this will help a future customer make a decision on which brand to purchase.

 

[davo]

I have an FPX with a straight shot chimney of about 30 ft as well. It is burning just as good as day 1. I get around 10-12 hour burn and have not replaced the cat yet on it. When it's around 10-15 degrees I would get shorter burns because it is colder and need more warmth for my house. I burn 24/7 in the winter and go through about 4-5 cords a winter. If you have any questions just ask!

 

[Carlv123]

I have an FPX with a straight shot chimney of about 30 ft as well. It is burning just as good as day 1. I get around 10-12 hour burn and have not replaced the cat yet on it. When it's around 10-15 degrees I would get shorter burns because it is colder and need more warmth for my house. I burn 24/7 in the winter and go through about 4-5 cords a winter. If you have any questions just ask!

I'm open to any suggestions to get anywhere close to that time. What size splits do you use? Do you pack it tight and wait for it to gain temp then cut the air?

 

[joewasilla28]

I have an FPX with a straight shot chimney of about 30 ft as well. It is burning just as good as day 1. I get around 10-12 hour burn and have not replaced the cat yet on it. When it's around 10-15 degrees I would get shorter burns because it is colder and need more warmth for my house. I burn 24/7 in the winter and go through about 4-5 cords a winter. If you have any questions just ask!

I'm equally as curious as Carlv123 about how you get those burn times! I get about 5 'ish. I haven't been packing the firebox too full, as we just bought the house and the previous owner only left about a face cord. We have about 13 acres of forest and I plan on getting busy soon to stack a good supply for next winter so I can burn 24/7 as well. Any tips on how you operate your insert would be great!

 

[webby3650]

Could just be that you all have a different idea of what a burn time is. Everyone has a different idea it seems.

 

[Tegbert]

I'm equally as curious as Carlv123 about how you get those burn times! I get about 5 'ish. I haven't been packing the firebox too full, as we just bought the house and the previous owner only left about a face cord. We have about 13 acres of forest and I plan on getting busy soon to stack a good supply for next winter so I can burn 24/7 as well. Any tips on how you operate your insert would be great!

Pack it full that’s the only way to get longer burn times. On my rockport which is smaller than yours I can easily get 8 hrs out of it with PNW softwoods. But that is only after the stove has already been running and on low. Like yesterday when I got home it needed reloaded. But it was too soon to load it full for when I get up. So I threw two splits on and ran it on high for a couple hours. About 630 I opened it up raked the coals forward and packed it as full as I could which on mine is hard to do because of the arch opening. Once the cat was up to temp I closed the bypass and ran it on high for about 15 or so. Then I shut it down on low. Stove temp was just under 600. Woke up at 3am took a shower and at 320 the stove was most likely just under the limit for the fan to be on but had plenty of big coals for an easy relight. I say just under the fan temp as the combustor was not up to temp yet but the fans kicked on while the load was ramping up again.

So I give that a solid 8 hour burn time in my book but as webby said everyone has a different perspective on burn times. With the same amount of wood from a cold start I would maybe get 5 hours.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[davo]

I'm open to any suggestions to get anywhere close to that time. What size splits do you use? Do you pack it tight and wait for it to gain temp then cut the air?

For over night I use big splits. I rake the coals forward towards the glass in a straight line or sometimes to the left or right for a slow cigar burn. I load it up as much as I can, starting in the back and piling wood on it EW until I reach the front. There's sometimes room on the sides due to the firebox design and I will load a few shorter pieces NS. Depending on weather, I normally load around 250-300 degrees, and depending on the amount of coals, and let it go until about 450-500 stovetop. From there I will shut the bypass and turn down the secondary air until about halfway 3/4th of the way and depending on the weather, how high the fan is, and the amount of wood it lasts 10-12 hours. I normally consider my burn times as whether it is easy to do a relight without adding any kindling. So normally, after that amount of time, the stove is hot enough and I can reload it easily. Normally after 10-12 hours the stove top is anywhere between 200-300.

 

[davo]

I'm equally as curious as Carlv123 about how you get those burn times! I get about 5 'ish. I haven't been packing the firebox too full, as we just bought the house and the previous owner only left about a face cord. We have about 13 acres of forest and I plan on getting busy soon to stack a good supply for next winter so I can burn 24/7 as well. Any tips on how you operate your insert would be great!

Obviously watch the stove and do a few practice runs with you being home, but pack it full! That way you get the most amount of BTUS you can stuff in there and then dial it back for a slow controlled burn. If you have any other questions just ask!

 

[Ashful]

I normally consider my burn times as whether it is easy to do a relight without adding any kindling.

In that case, my “burn time” is somewhere over 2 full days (48 hours). I consider burn time on a cat stove to be active cat, in my case that can be 30+ hours of active cat.

 

[davo]

In that case, my “burn time” is somewhere over 2 full days (48 hours). I consider burn time on a cat stove to be active cat, in my case that can be 30+ hours of active cat.

I don't have a cat therm on my stove and burn times are subjective. I am just saying this is when I normally reload the stove to maintain house temperature during the winter. Typically when it is 10-30 degrees outside.

 

[Ashful]

I don't have a cat therm on my stove and burn times are subjective.

You have an FPX catalytic stove with no catalytic probe thermometer?

 

[davo]

You have an FPX catalytic stove with no catalytic probe thermometer?

Yes, when I bought my stove in 2014 there were two extras that were optional. One was the green start, which I didn't buy because I didn't want to pay the extra money. The other is the cat probe that I also declined. Looking back, I wish I did purchase it I think it would have been easier to dial down and know the temps. I now hooked up a thermocouple with a magnet and reader on the stovetop so I can check stovetop temps all the time without looking behind the surround. I also have an IR gun I now use occasionally. I think I can have the dealer come back and install a cat probe for the stove but I'm not sure.

 

[Dmitry]

Yes, when I bought my stove in 2014 there were two extras that were optional. One was the green start, which I didn't buy because I didn't want to pay the extra money. The other is the cat probe that I also declined. Looking back, I wish I did purchase it I think it would have been easier to dial down and know the temps. I now hooked up a thermocouple with a magnet and reader on the stovetop so I can check stovetop temps all the time without looking behind the surround. I also have an IR gun I now use occasionally. I think I can have the dealer come back and install a cat probe for the stove but I'm not sure.

Exactly my set up and reason for not having cat probe.