2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 2 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

Funny seeing everybody use the cat probe hole to measure draft.

Someone here (@k6hap?) did a study showing that cat probe hole pressure was pretty darn close to glue pressure. Surprising, but I believe his data.

 

[bholler]

Yes, unused, the quality of this one was junk. Got Really good one that’s calibrated coming. Currently this ones is closed full time.

A barometric damper has no place on a wood stove. And it is installed wrong anyway


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[BKVP]

Funny seeing everybody use the cat probe hole to measure draft.

I once had a chart recorder, 3 thermocouples, 1 manometer and a portable emissions sample all connected to my stove...in my living room.

Did I say "My"? After 30 days all the above was gone and I was reminded it was a living room not lab.

 

[bholler]

I once had a chart recorder, 3 thermocouples, 1 manometer and a portable emissions sample all connected to my stove...in my living room.

Did I say "My"? After 30 days all the above was gone and I was reminded it was a living room not lab.

Since you are here can you give your input on the barometric damper?

 

[darktower007]

I’m a huge data and testing nerd. I’d like to see inserts and stoves and if people have really really large splits cut to box dimensions would this dramatically increase burn time? The hard part would be getting these huge cuts to season...


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[BKVP]

Since you are here can you give your input on the barometric damper?

Perhaps you have seen my prior posts. It's a violation of Federal law for manufacturers and commercial owners (that means distributors and dealers) to encourage in any way the use of any device or install that was not part of testing done in the certification tests. I have mentioned that agencies are seeking comment and input of the sales of dampers of any sort and any endorsements provided by the parties listed above.

With this is mind, I cannot offer any opinion on dampers or the use of them in our appliances.

 

[bholler]

Perhaps you have seen my prior posts. It's a violation of Federal law for manufacturers and commercial owners (that means distributors and dealers) to encourage in any way the use of any device or install that was not part of testing done in the certification tests. I have mentioned that agencies are seeking comment and input of the sales of dampers of any sort and any endorsements provided by the parties listed above.

With this is mind, I cannot offer any opinion on dampers or the use of them in our appliances.

I can see that when it comes to key dampers. But not barometric dampers. They have inherent dangers when installed on woodstoves

 

[Woody Stover]

what he posted looks like burnt residue regardless of when or were it came from

Not very much of it, but I get a little crunchy, puffy stuff that looks somewhat like that off my cap, when I take it off to brush the chimney. I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any fire up there..I never see any of it on the ground like might happen if I'd had a fire. It has a fluffy appearance, but not a large bubble as seen in the pic he posted, so maybe that only happens if you have a fire?

Best guess is that wind sucked something up on my reload and lit off my cap.

Hard to believe anything from the box would get up to the cap with sufficient heat to start a fire unless you were burning cardboard or something that would carry a big, hot piece up there but I doubt you are doing that. I think a fire would most often start down lower in a filthy chimney (like I used to have years ago, before the dry-wood era.) My fires sounded like they were fairly low in the pipe. I'm sure a fire in the cap could happen, but I doubt it's a big percentage of chimney fires. But I'm no expert..bholler has seen a lot more than I have, in all different sorts of setups.

heating from my basement is no different than heating a 2 story from the first floor. It is fully insulated. And I am heating roughly 2000 squ ft.

Oh, I thought I read that you had 1100 sq.ft. Maybe that was just the upstairs? That would be a tiny house otherwise, I guess. At the time I said to myself, 'The Princess can't be that weak, can it? Maybe it's the high winds..'

On the cat stove, I consider burn time to be time with an active cat. That means over 500 degrees measured on that stove top cat meter.

I wouldn't consider cat probe temp to be an indicator of burn time. If I open up the air on a bed of coals, the cat probe temp will rise even though the cat no longer has any smoke to burn. So I've gone from no burn time, back into getting more burn time? No.
Two different cat stoves could have two different cat probe readings, yet be giving off the same amount of heat into the room. Even temps shot with an IR gun on various spots on both stoves wouldn't be an accurate predictor of total heat output into the room. The only way to compare burn times between any two stoves, cat or non-cat, would be to determine how many BTUs/hr. are being released into the room, and call the end of the burn time the point at which both stoves are releasing 'X' BTU/hr. into the room. But feel free to define your "burn time" however you want.

I am concerned with heating my house and the princess can't do that at max burn time more than a few days a year.

Where he is, it's probably twice the temp outside with 1/3 the wind. He gets away with longer burns than you would see in most of the rest of this country.

BK probably isn't going to recommend that you do so, just because when someone cranks up the thermostat you have guaranteed flame impingement on the cat, which is not good for it.

I don't know if you can say "guaranteed impingement." Seems like it would be very hard to push flame back that far through those holes in the shield. What is the distance between the shield and the face of the cat, like 3, 4 inches? Maybe @BKVP knows how easy or hard it may be for flames to reach the face of the cat, and cause the cupping that is normally associated with flame impingement? Maybe on a very tall stack, but on the vast majority of installs I wouldn't think it would be possible given that the BKs seem to require higher-draft setups to run compared to a lot of other stoves.

 

[bholler]

, I thought I read that you had 1100 sq.ft. Maybe that was just the upstairs? That would be a tiny house otherwise, I guess. At the time I said to myself, 'The Princess can't be that weak, can it? Maybe it's the high winds..'

Yes 1100 per floor. About 200 squ ft of the basement is utility room that is closed off.

 

[Highbeam]

Someone here (@k6hap?) did a study showing that cat probe hole pressure was pretty darn close to glue pressure. Surprising, but I believe his data.

I didn’t say there was anything wrong with the data from that hole but it’s funny looking and an unintended use for that hole. Who’s going to be the first to drill a port for this on the back of their stove?

 

[BKVP]

I can see that when it comes to key dampers. But not barometric dampers. They have inherent dangers when installed on woodstoves

Bholler, it has nothing to do with safety. The concern is a consumer can alter the low burn rate setting and consequently the emissions profile across all burn rates. I'll remain silent on the issue of ANY dampers, sorry.

 

[bholler]

Bholler, it has nothing to do with safety. The concern is a consumer can alter the low burn rate setting and consequently the emissions profile across all burn rates. I'll remain silent on the issue of ANY dampers, sorry.

Again i understand you not saying it is ok. But i dont understand why you cant say it is not ok especially with a barometric damper. And no need to apologise at all. Just trying to set this guy straight.

 

[Diabel]

Yes 1100 per floor. About 200 squ ft of the basement is utility room that is closed off.

So, you are heating the same space as me 2200. I have not had a chance to really test the Princess.

So far I have had maybe 15 fires in it. Every time I go to the cottage my wife comes along. We keep the place at 68 while we are not there. Once there I turn the heat pump off. By the time I get a fire going in the basement (house sits on a 45* slope so 1/2 is totally exposed) she has the valor cranking massive heat upstairs. I shut the fireplace off before going to sleep. In the morning the upstairs is 70 and the downstairs 74 with the Princess still very active.

It will be a big test this weekend, they are forecasting -24*F with strong winds. Our place is uber insulated.

 

[bholler]

Bholler, it has nothing to do with safety. The concern is a consumer can alter the low burn rate setting and consequently the emissions profile across all burn rates. I'll remain silent on the issue of ANY dampers, sorry.

I am curious how blazeking recomends meeting the draft requirements when there is excessive draft though.

 

[BKVP]

Not very much of it, but I get a little crunchy, puffy stuff that looks somewhat like that off my cap, when I take it off to brush the chimney. I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any fire up there..I never see any of it on the ground like might happen if I'd had a fire. It has a fluffy appearance, but not a large bubble as seen in the pic he posted, so maybe that only happens if you have a fire?
Hard to believe anything from the box would get up to the cap with sufficient heat to start a fire unless you were burning cardboard or something that would carry a big, hot piece up there but I doubt you are doing that. I think a fire would most often start down lower in a filthy chimney (like I used to have years ago, before the dry-wood era.) My fires sounded like they were fairly low in the pipe. I'm sure a fire in the cap could happen, but I doubt it's a big percentage of chimney fires. But I'm no expert..bholler has seen a lot more than I have, in all different sorts of setups.
Oh, I thought I read that you had 1100 sq.ft. Maybe that was just the upstairs? That would be a tiny house otherwise, I guess. At the time I said to myself, 'The Princess can't be that weak, can it? Maybe it's the high winds..'
I wouldn't consider cat probe temp to be an indicator of burn time. If I open up the air on a bed of coals, the cat probe temp will rise even though the cat no longer has any smoke to burn. So I've gone from no burn time, back into getting more burn time? No.
Two different cat stoves could have two different cat probe readings, yet be giving off the same amount of heat into the room. Even temps shot with an IR gun on various spots on both stoves wouldn't be an accurate predictor of total heat output into the room. The only way to compare burn times between any two stoves, cat or non-cat, would be to determine how many BTUs/hr. are being released into the room, and call the end of the burn time the point at which both stoves are releasing 'X' BTU/hr. into the room. But feel free to define your "burn time" however you want.
Where he is, it's probably twice the temp outside with 1/3 the wind. He gets away with longer burns than you would see in most of the rest of this country.
I don't know if you can say "guaranteed impingement." Seems like it would be very hard to push flame back that far through those holes in the shield. What is the distance between the shield and the face of the cat, like 3, 4 inches? Maybe @BKVP knows how easy or hard it may be for flames to reach the face of the cat, and cause the cupping that is normally associated with flame impingement? Maybe on a very tall stack, but on the vast majority of installs I wouldn't think it would be possible given that the BKs seem to require higher-draft setups to run compared to a lot of other stoves.

We do test the impingement topic. There are fans that allow us to control stack flow. If we induce flow, we can "pull" flame through the flame shield if we run enough flow. The distance from the back of the flame shield to the combustor is variable. Starts down around 1/4" at bottom to 2" or so at the top. Depending upon model.

 

[MissMac]

I’ve often wondered if I could burn a full load in 8 hours! 21* right now with crazy winds. Morning load went 15 hours but house was cooling fast.

Tonight’s load
View attachment 237866

That is one hell of a good looking split on the right.

 

[kf6hap]

For all practical purposes: Cat hole = ash plug mounted fitting = hole at bottom of the stove pipe unless the cat is plugged.

 

[BKVP]

I am curious how blazeking recomends meeting the draft requirements when there is excessive draft though.

We direct to [email protected]

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Yeah, sorry... I should have been more clear. That photo is not one of my, “I’m going to pack this as tight as I can for extra burn time” photos, I can clearly squeeze some more little pieces in-between those big’uns. It was actually taken to capture the water sizzling off the bark on those two splits in the second photo, we have had an abolsutely insane amount of rain this year. This is how I load if I’m just going about my usual “get it done” workday routine.

I am officially a full year off my splitting schedule. Each time I’ve had a free day to do some splitting, it has been raining or too soggy to venture down to the wood lot. I’ve sunk more equipment in my yard (mower and tractor) this year, than in my entire life up to this year.

If I remember correctly you were having troubles getting wood to the house last winter as well. Did you get enough stacked over the summer to get you through this winter?

 

[Ashful]

I’m a huge data and testing nerd. I’d like to see inserts and stoves and if people have really really large splits cut to box dimensions would this dramatically increase burn time? The hard part would be getting these huge cuts to season...


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I have a load right now where half the splits are within 1/8” of the glass, not by design or desire, but I somehow ended up with a cord cut too long (I blame Jotul). Anyway, it messes with airflow and makes it take forever for the cat to come up to temp. It also destroys the air wash, making the glass in my normally-clean 30 box black, like a Princess or King. I don’t recommend going over 18” on a BK 30 stove, but I have proven you can burn 20”, if you must.

 

[darktower007]

My Ashford 25 has clean class in the middle. Sides are black. I guess air wash enters there. No clue how to get it all clear... hot fires?


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[KBW]

So...installing a key damper would be a viable option for maximizing efficiency by allowing one to fine tune Draft? How many BK owners do this? Because I agree, I bet there are lots of BK owners, basically anyone whose setup goes through 2 stories, who experience over draft conditions, I being one of them.

 

[Diabel]

So...installing a key damper would be a viable option for maximizing efficiency by allowing one to fine tune Draft? How many BK owners do this? Because I agree, I bet there are lots of BK owners, basically anyone whose setup goes through 2 stories, who experience over draft conditions, I being one of them.

My flue goes through two stories and a bit. I get smoke spillage when I open the door wide. Don’t think I have overdraft issue.

 

[darktower007]

So...installing a key damper would be a viable option for maximizing efficiency by allowing one to fine tune Draft? How many BK owners do this? Because I agree, I bet there are lots of BK owners, basically anyone whose setup goes through 2 stories, who experience over draft conditions, I being one of them.

I’m at 23’ it’s pretty strong draft... but it’s better than no draft due to undersized flue length I guess.


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[showrguy]

So...installing a key damper would be a viable option for maximizing efficiency by allowing one to fine tune Draft? How many BK owners do this? Because I agree, I bet there are lots of BK owners, basically anyone whose setup goes through 2 stories, who experience over draft conditions, I being one of them.

My stack is about 35', my draft before key dampers (s), yes, 2 of em, was .23-.26..
Right now it's 27.3 deg. F. And windy, Both dampers are shut as far as they will go, and I'm still @ .06-.09...
Far better than without them .........
There's no way in hell anyone should EVER put a barometric damper on a woodstove flue/chimney system no matter what you might read !!