More Harman Accentra insert cleaning questions

[tiger]

OK, for only the second time, I have the unit out of the fireplace by myself to clean in the back. It took forever, but I finally got the "fines box" cleared out (I see the auger back there, so that's where it is, is it OK that there are still some pellets in the auger?).

(A) I pulled out the unit about 16". To clean the flue with a section brush, does one clean the flue with the unit out from the wall , or once the unit is back in place (the instructional DVD seems to show the latter)? There's very little room back there to manipulate those sections without running into the back of the unit. I'd see a straighter "path" once the unit is back in space.

(B) Yet again, I'm confronting a unit that just hums when turned on, instead of running. Last year, after a topic here, I caved in and had a service call, which I'd like to avoid. The recommendation to use a test cord on the combustion fan is beyond me, I'd been staring at this thing trying to figure out how to access the connectors with the fan still in place, not happening. After really cleaning around the fan, it spins freely and I risked turning the fan on while the fan cover and all the over removable front-end panels/covers were off; no change. Now that the unit is out, the fines box clear, and the two distribution fans seems to spin freely, is it "safe" to plug the unit back in while that unit is still out of the fireplace, to see if it will spin?

 

[johneh]

I would say YES
The auger is what feed pellets to the burn pot
So no pellets =no fire

 

[tiger]

Well, at this point I'll (A) try cleaning the flue with the inter back in place in the fireplace, and (B) risk trying to see if the fan turns on while the unit is still out of the wall, hopefully I won't burn up any electrical wiring, etc.

 

[tiger]

Well, this is interesting. I plugged it back in, set the heat at "1" and then barely on at "room temp", my usual. There fan is on! (A) Now I'm waiting for it to shut down, a dozen minutes after going back to "off", so I can reassemble. (B) Boy am I glad that I cleaned everything, as I forgot that the "exit chute" from the combustion fan area just "exits' if the stove is away from the wall and no longer butted to the flue; I could have filled the house with dust! (C) well, I pulled the plug, about 15 minutes into waiting for the fan to shut down on its own, the fan started making a new noise and that cannot be good. Moreover, touching the fan motor (only possible with the stove "out"), it's more than a little warm. I presume the fan is running but on borrowed time. Time to replace.

 

[Zeus]

Well, this is interesting. I plugged it back in, set the heat at "1" and then barely on at "room temp", my usual. There fan is on! (A) Now I'm waiting for it to shut down, a dozen minutes after going back to "off", so I can reassemble. (B) Boy am I glad that I cleaned everything, as I forgot that the "exit chute" from the combustion fan area just "exits' if the stove is away from the wall and no longer butted to the flue; I could have filled the house with dust! (C) well, I pulled the plug, about 15 minutes into waiting for the fan to shut down on its own, the fan started making a new noise and that cannot be good. Moreover, touching the fan motor (only possible with the stove "out"), it's more than a little warm. I presume the fan is running but on borrowed time. Time to replace.

Hey tiger, when I clean my flue I pull the stove way out about 3 or 4 feet from the fire place to clean it and at that point you can walk around the back of the stove to access everything much easier

 

[Zeus]

Found this on amazon looks to be oem check serial no.

 

[Zeus]

Not a bad price.

 

[tiger]

Thanks for the response!

Found this on amazon looks to be oem check serial no.

Well, that's affordable enough (which is important to me). Over the past two days, I've eyeballed the back of the stove a bunch of times, trying to convince myself that I should be able to get more involved back there. On the combustion fan, really unsure (A) how to access all three of the mounting bolts when only one of the three looks easy to get at (and this from a guy with some experience restoring a British car, with lots of tight spots) and, worse, getting the fan free of the wiring harness... maybe cut-n-splice the wires ? I have not looked on-line for a tutorial. Perhaps there is a specified torque setting for the three bolts.

Hey tiger, when I clean my flue I pull the stove way out about 3 or 4 feet from the fire place to clean it and at that point you can walk around the back of the stove to access everything much easier

Did not know it would come out that far. Of course, worried a bit that if I do -- can I readily slide it back by myself? I figured that at 16" it's on-the-tracks and so far (note, I am 63 years old and never a weightlifter) I've been worry it back into place. I presume from your answer that you do not clean the flue starting at the vicinity of the combustion fan, working for the inside of the stove with it latched into place. DATA POINT: my fireplace is roughly flush with the floor, when sliding the unit out, 1/4" plywood is a bit thin to support the stove while out, but 3/4" is too thick and won't fit.

 

[Zeus]

Yep you may have to use various wrenches or sockets to get it of but it will come off. Now as for the fan it will only come with short cables you’ll have to cut the wires put new connectors on which will be n the box with your new motor pretty easy work but will take some time to do it properly. Yes I pull the stove out and run my rods up the flue from inside the chimney not from inside the stove. As far as pulling out the stove 4 feet what I did was made all the measurements and had a metal worker in my area make me a 4 foot extension to my rail system. This was much cheaper and custom made for my situation, if you buy the rail kit from harm@n it will cost you arm and leg let me know if you need any help.

 

[tiger]

Yep you may have to use various wrenches or sockets to get it of but it will come off. Now as for the fan it will only come with short cables you’ll have to cut the wires put new connectors on which will be n the box with your new motor pretty easy work but will take some time to do it properly.

Thanks! About a week and a half with no pellet stove but it's not my only heat source. I am moving slowly (and, in the middle of another house remodeling project demanding my time).

Doing an online search, did not find a comprehensive how-to, video or otherwise. I did find a short video on removing the old motor, but on a non-insert Accentra, and it looks different. Also, did not go into how to replace the fan once off, like torque settings for the three mounting bolts, nor "spacing" of the fan onto the new motor shaft. Stuff like that. Still thinking it over.

Meanwhile, as Plan B, e-mailed the company that sent a tech out last year about the same motor. They made adjustments but did NOT replace the motor, it ran fine for a year. Alas, after not answering several e-mails I called to find they are out of the stove business; so, if I choose not to tear this thing apart myself, back for square one for finding a tech.

 

[Zeus]

Thanks! About a week and a half with no pellet stove but it's not my only heat source. I am moving slowly (and, in the middle of another house remodeling project demanding my time).

Doing an online search, did not find a comprehensive how-to, video or otherwise. I did find a short video on removing the old motor, but on a non-insert Accentra, and it looks different. Also, did not go into how to replace the fan once off, like torque settings for the three mounting bolts, nor "spacing" of the fan onto the new motor shaft. Stuff like that. Still thinking it over.

Meanwhile, as Plan B, e-mailed the company that sent a tech out last year about the same motor. They made adjustments but did NOT replace the motor, it ran fine for a year. Alas, after not answering several e-mails I called to find they are out of the stove business; so, if I choose not to tear this thing apart myself, back for square one for finding a tech.
[/QUOTE

Thanks! About a week and a half with no pellet stove but it's not my only heat source. I am moving slowly (and, in the middle of another house remodeling project demanding my time).

Doing an online search, did not find a comprehensive how-to, video or otherwise. I did find a short video on removing the old motor, but on a non-insert Accentra, and it looks different. Also, did not go into how to replace the fan once off, like torque settings for the three mounting bolts, nor "spacing" of the fan onto the new motor shaft. Stuff like that. Still thinking it over.

Meanwhile, as Plan B, e-mailed the company that sent a tech out last year about the same motor. They made adjustments but did NOT replace the motor, it ran fine for a year. Alas, after not answering several e-mails I called to find they are out of the stove business; so, if I choose not to tear this thing apart myself, back for square one for finding a tech.

Ok as far as changing out the motor seems as if your a handy guy so I don’t think you’ll have any issues. The hardest part is getting the bolts off due to clearances, I couldnt find any torque on the bolts either but what I did was kinda feel how tight they were as I was taking the bolts out and kinda snugged them up same if that helps lol I had no issues. If you have a small torque wrench try taking them off with it. Your new motor will have the shaft everything you need except the fan blade. if you need a new fan blade order it with the fan. Make sure you look up serial numbers in your manual when you order. When you get your new fan PM me I will call you if needed but its not that hard to do just tedious.

 

[rickwai]

I would suggest getting a fan blade when you order motor, They are lesss than $20. i end up replacing blade most of the time when doing a motor. Set screw Usually does not want to break loose.

 

[rickwai]

Nothing hard about replacing motor and blade. wing nut bolts are plenty accessible use pliers to break loose. May have to pry out on mounting plate with screw driver if it is a little stuck then rotate and remove plate/motor. As far as torque, just snug everything back up. Not very precise,

 

[Zeus]

Hey rick hows it going glad your here to help. On the 2014 accentra I think they use 3 5/16 nut on the fan to hold it in place. The one furthest Back toward the center of the stove is hardest to get out. I think I used an angle socket with a long extension to get it out. Hope this helps.

 

[tiger]

Well, I'm closer to deciding to try this myself. Starting this AM, spraying the fan setscrew with PB Blaster.

Make sure you look up serial numbers in your manual when you order.

The dealer/installer (and I don't think they are around anymore, either) never filled in that info in the manual, it's blank. That said, I nosed around and found it inside the right-hand access door: apparently 008257221. Now, what do I do with that info? Looking on the webpage at Amazon you showed in post # 7 of "Harman Combustion Exhaust Fan Motor for Pellet Stoves #3-21-08639", so far not finding anyplace that says what serial # range it fits. By the way, reviews show that sometimes buyers get a different brand, which is disconcerting.

I would suggest getting a fan blade when you order motor, They are lesss than $20. i end up replacing blade most of the time when doing a motor. Set screw Usually does not want to break loose.

Sounds like a good idea. How to determine which fan, perhaps using serial #? I tried to get a tape measure in there, I think it's 5" exactly, not easy when the fan wants to spin, I don't think it's 4-3/4" but not 100% certain. I'd like to think that shaft diameter and "boss spacing" are constants, perhaps that is wishful thinking.

 

[Zeus]

All you need todo is take off fan blade take out 3 bolts that hold the fan in place pull the motor back and out shaft and all will stay connected. When the new one comes slide new motor motor in replace bolts put new fan blade on. There’s literally nothing else to do. As far as the correct parts, find your Harman manual look for your part serial #s then when you order make sure they match. Oops I forgot when installing your new motor it will have short wires you will have to cut the wires connected to old motor and then put 2 new connectors supplied in box with new motor on where you cut them. Also take a picture of old motor before you take it out this will help you remember how to put the new one in.

 

[Zeus]

Not sure about the fan serial but if you look at the photo of the fan I sent earlier that matches the serial you have. The motor in the picture is a oem part made by Gleason Avery that’s the motor you want. Your manual should have a parts list in the back with all serial #s listed for your stove. Always double check.

 

[tiger]

Just did third application of PB Blaster in under 24 hours. Sometime soon, presuming I find the exact correct (1/8", correct?) Allen wrench, I'll see if I get lucky and the fan comes off without cutting.

Nothing hard about replacing motor and blade. wing nut bolts are plenty accessible

These appear to be conventional nuts, not wing nuts; they'll need a wrench but to tell you the truth, it looks too tight in there to twist a wing nut anyway. Thanks!

find your Harman manual look for your part serial #s

Ahh! I think we had a semantic problem there! I was looking for "serial numbers", like specific to my stove and my stove only, I think you are meaning just plain part numbers (sheesh, I am a retired Purchasing guy, for me those mean two very different things!) OK, part list in the back, the blower # does end in 08639 so that's great, the fan install says 5" and part # 3-20-50221.

Thanks you all for the help! I think it's time to order (if the motor shows up saying something other than Gleason on the side, should I send it back?)

I am coming to the conclusion that, even in the worst case, I mess it up and have to have a service call anyway and the tech will see I was fiddling with it.

EDIT: Looking at Amazon to find the fan, which they apparently have, what pops up under "customers also but" is a gasket, GASKET , do I need this?

 

[Overfireinthehole]

Do yourself a favor and get that thing pulled way out and take the front door off. When your trying to put those nuts back on you’ll have to hold the studs in place or they will want to fall into the front of the stove and the door gets in the way. Also if it’s pulled way out, you should be able to get at the nuts with a socket, extension, and a wobble. If the blade won’t come off, just cut the shaft with a sawzaw in the back.

 

[tiger]

I got lucky! After a long time searching for the correct size Allen key (those markings are tiny!) and almost as long trying to fit the wrench to the setscrew due to the fan wanting to turn, I gave one last blast of PB and twisted.... PLAAAANG! Fortunately, that was the setscrew popping loose and not the wrench breaking in half.

Do yourself a favor and get that thing pulled way out and take the front door off.

Thanks for the advise, I looked at the door and it appears to slide straight up and, coincidentally, I see another topic hear on removing Harman doors which suggests looking for a cut in the stove itself for the door to slide up into -- and there it is.

Highly resistant to pulling the stove out too far for fear of not getting it back. Let's see how that works out.

Still curious about the gasket, otherwise I think I am ready to place an order.

 

[Zeus]

I got lucky! After a long time searching for the correct size Allen key (those markings are tiny!) and almost as long trying to fit the wrench to the setscrew due to the fan wanting to turn, I gave one last blast of PB and twisted.... PLAAAANG! Fortunately, that was the setscrew popping loose and not the wrench breaking in half.



Thanks for the advise, I looked at the door and it appears to slide straight up and, coincidentally, I see another topic hear on removing Harman doors which suggests looking for a cut in the stove itself for the door to slide up into -- and there it is.

Highly resistant to pulling the stove out too far for fear of not getting it back. Let's see how that works out.

Still curious about the gasket, otherwise I think I am ready to place an order.

If your stove has the ceramic brown I would leave door in place have a buddy help put in the screws if possible. Reason being if you bump the door getting it off it will chip your paint on door and stove, there’s not much room for error and the door is heavy. Congrats on getting fan loose good job. theres no gasket for the fan replacement, just made the job easier for ya lol.

 

[tiger]

Great info! (A) Alas, the brown stove already has a few chips, so I need to touch-up anyway. (B) The parts list, which does show other gaskets, didn't show one for the combustion fan so figured someone might say "no gasket". (C) despite this one looking fine, I think I'll order a replacement fan blade anyway.

If your stove has the ceramic brown I would leave door in place have a buddy help put in the screws if possible. Reason being if you bump the door getting it off it will chip your paint on door and stove, there’s not much room for error and the door is heavy. Congrats on getting fan loose good job. theres no gasket for the fan replacement, just made the job easier for ya lol.

 

[Zeus]

Great info! (A) Alas, the brown stove already has a few chips, so I need to touch-up anyway. (B) The parts list, which does show other gaskets, didn't show one for the combustion fan so figured someone might say "no gasket". (C) despite this one looking fine, I think I'll order a replacement fan blade anyway.

Sounds good let us know when you get the parts in.

 

[tiger]

Sounds good let us know when you get the parts in.

Well, it just arrived; like I said, "By the way, reviews show that sometimes buyers get a different brand, which is disconcerting." and it showed up Earth Sense brand, not Gleason. SOHULD I SEND IT BACK?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Look it over. Are the bearings on the motor outboard end ball or sintered bronze? Is the field windings wrapped in high temp tape? Does it say China on it anywhere? If the bearings look quality and the windings are wrapped well, it's probably fine even if Chinese. If it was mine, I'd be drilling the top of the gearcase and adding a grease fitting and pumping in some grease. Manufacturers usually put very little lube in the gearcases. I like to fill mine up until the grease starts seeping out around the output shaft bearing.