I guess we will have to add to it, but our current stove still won't work. Definitely not built airtight enough and smoke blows into the house when we try to close the damper. One morning, I woke up to smoke filling the living room and kitchen. I don't dare put up smoke detectors, because we'd have it going off all the time when we stoke or build the fire.
Choosing a durable, economical wood stove
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Hmmm...OK, this has me wondering. Maybe I was wrong, but I thought a catalyst stove would be better in an area where it's consistently cold all winter, like where I grew up in central Minnesota! I thought that here in northwestern Arkansas, where it's usually in the 20's-30's at night and then often up into the 50's to 60's in the afternoon (not today!), we kinda need something that will heat up fairly quickly in the evening but burn long and slow during the night, build up quickly again in the chilly morning using the coals, and then taper off in the afternoon. Many days, it gets quite hot in the house in the afternoon, so we would let the stove go cold. But, when evening comes and it gets dark, then we have to fire it up again for the night. Found out recently, our county is actually colder than most other counties in Arkansas. But we don't have to burn constantly, unless we could turn it WAY down on milder days.
You really think a catalytic stove would be better? I really don't want a more complicated-to-use and expensive-to-maintain wood stove. I want "simple to use" and "cheap to maintain"!
Maybe an explanation of draft is in order... some of you really smart fellows add or correct my explanation...
Draft is not simply warm air/smoke rising. A chimney is a negative pressure system that creates draft by the difference in air pressure between the cool/cold air outside and the warm/hot air inside the chimney. The greater the temperature difference and the greater the volume of the air (taller chimney), the greater the draft. I get much better draft on a 30F day than a 50F day due to the increased temperature and air pressure difference.
Items within the house that use air affect the draft (particularly if the house is well sealed) by creating another negative pressure system that fights the negative pressure system within the chimney. Clothes dryers, range hoods, etc are examples of this.
Draft is not simply warm air/smoke rising. A chimney is a negative pressure system that creates draft by the difference in air pressure between the cool/cold air outside and the warm/hot air inside the chimney. The greater the temperature difference and the greater the volume of the air (taller chimney), the greater the draft. I get much better draft on a 30F day than a 50F day due to the increased temperature and air pressure difference.
Items within the house that use air affect the draft (particularly if the house is well sealed) by creating another negative pressure system that fights the negative pressure system within the chimney. Clothes dryers, range hoods, etc are examples of this.
I get it. A woman after my own heart (don't tell my wifeHmmm...OK, this has me wondering. Maybe I was wrong, but I thought a catalyst stove would be better in an area where it's consistently cold all winter, like where I grew up in central Minnesota! I thought that here in northwestern Arkansas, where it's usually in the 20's-30's at night and then often up into the 50's to 60's in the afternoon (not today!), we kinda need something that will heat up fairly quickly in the evening but burn long and slow during the night, build up quickly again in the chilly morning using the coals, and then taper off in the afternoon. Many days, it gets quite hot in the house in the afternoon, so we would let the stove go cold. But, when evening comes and it gets dark, then we have to fire it up again for the night. Found out recently, our county is actually colder than most other counties in Arkansas. But we don't have to burn constantly, unless we could turn it WAY down on milder days.
You really think a catalytic stove would be better? I really don't want a more complicated-to-use and expensive-to-maintain wood stove. I want "simple to use" and "cheap to maintain"!
).I need serious BTU'S. You can get them from a catalyst stove, but it's not using the stove design to it's greatest capability's (long, slow, low burns). BK guys (catalyst) get 24 hour cycles. I get 8-12 hour burn cycles, but the coaling phase (the last 4-6 hours) I don't get enough BTU'S (it's freakin' frigid in WI right now!) Honestly, when I have weather in spring and fall like your winter, I keep up just fine. Actually fight the "too much heat" thing. You would probably be OK with a softwood burn in the morning and evening to get the temps up and then a mid-size hardwood fire for overnight.
Thank you for this explanation. OK, so I need a taller chimney...Our house is not well sealed (YET--my husband will eventually make sure it is, if I know him!), but the premise of requiring a fresh air intake system is supposedly that mobile homes are more tightly sealed than stick-built homes (since when?!?). And other than the drier, we don't really have anything else that pulls air in the house (except one bathroom fan which is rarely used). So, suppose we finish fixing up the house and it's good and airtight, and we have this fresh air intake system that's required by code. Wouldn't that take care of any draft issues by providing all the oxygen the fire needs? Or does it still need draft from the chimney too?
I guess I don't quite get this burn cycle thing yet. I'm still having to stoke the fire like every hour and throw on another log to keep some heat coming from the stove, or it burns out quickly. But then again, we have an extremely inefficient stove and can't turn the damper down all the way because smoke comes leaking into the house.I get it. A woman after my own heart (don't tell my wife
I need serious BTU'S. You can get them from a catalyst stove, but it's not using the stove design to it's greatest capability's (long, slow, low burns). BK guys (catalyst) get 24 hour cycles. I get 8-12 hour burn cycles, but the coaling phase (the last 4-6 hours) I don't get enough BTU'S (it's freakin' frigid in WI right now!) Honestly, when I have weather in spring and fall like your winter, I keep up just fine. Actually fight the "too much heat" thing. You would probably be OK with a softwood burn in the morning and evening to get the temps up and then a mid-size hardwood fire for overnight.
What about using an 8-inch stovepipe/chimney? That would create a lot more air space in the chimney and increase draft, yes?
Old stoves are often referred to as "smoke dragons". They heat (poorly) by burning the wood. Most of the heat goes up the chimney. Often the chimney was single wall to get more heat radiating off the pipe.
New EPA stoves generally are secondary combustion, catalytic, soapstone or a hybrid of these methods. At startup they are like the old smoke dragons; doors open, air wide open. Once the wood is scorched enough to stay burning and the temperature is coming up, the doors are shut and the air shut down in increments. This creates "off-gassing", which is where the wood is just barely burning enough to release the volatiles (smoke).
Secondary combustion burns the smoke in the firebox giving floating northern lights type of flames above the wood with lazy flames on the logs. Catalyst stoves are similar but have something like the catalytic converter in your car to burn the volatiles. Soapstone I'm not familiar with, but I think they can be either way and incorporate a stone to absorb the heat and release it at a steady rate...
New EPA stoves generally are secondary combustion, catalytic, soapstone or a hybrid of these methods. At startup they are like the old smoke dragons; doors open, air wide open. Once the wood is scorched enough to stay burning and the temperature is coming up, the doors are shut and the air shut down in increments. This creates "off-gassing", which is where the wood is just barely burning enough to release the volatiles (smoke).
Secondary combustion burns the smoke in the firebox giving floating northern lights type of flames above the wood with lazy flames on the logs. Catalyst stoves are similar but have something like the catalytic converter in your car to burn the volatiles. Soapstone I'm not familiar with, but I think they can be either way and incorporate a stone to absorb the heat and release it at a steady rate...
@bholler would answer this better on the dynamics; but no, not necessarily. It's not just volume but also flow rate I think...
Note that from my last post the new EPA stoves are best with double wall pipe to keep the pipe hot to keep the draft. Single wall cools too much and loses draft by releasing the heat into the room and creating creosote - BAD
I had a couple of chimney fires with my old setup. Didn't burn the house down, but no bueno!Oh yeah, didn't finish a thought. Burn cycle is #1 startup, #2 cruising (secondaries going or catalyst engaged), #3 coaling.
My startup is anywhere from 1/2 to 1 1/2 hours depending on the coals I load on, how much of what type of wood I put in and how full/packed tight it is. Cruising with strong secondaries is 2-4 hours, coaling is 4-6 hours. When it's cold and I need more heat I'll speed up the coaling phase by throwing softwoods on that will burn hot and fast and burn down the coals so I can fill the box again. 8" of coals is hot, but doesn't heat the house.
My startup is anywhere from 1/2 to 1 1/2 hours depending on the coals I load on, how much of what type of wood I put in and how full/packed tight it is. Cruising with strong secondaries is 2-4 hours, coaling is 4-6 hours. When it's cold and I need more heat I'll speed up the coaling phase by throwing softwoods on that will burn hot and fast and burn down the coals so I can fill the box again. 8" of coals is hot, but doesn't heat the house.
Every stove and install is different... It will also depend on your wood.
Mine on cold start with wood that is seasoned 3 years is 4 splits started then once the cat is up to temp I close the bypass and turn it down to low and if cold turn on the fan for an hour. Then 5-8 hours later add 3-4 more splits and once burning well close bypass and turn back down to low and kick the fan on if im cold. Wake up the next day and start over once home from work.
Also wood makes a huge difference. bad wood makes a lot of smoke and low heat. My first year was a trial........
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
If your current stove leaks smoke, it is because of two things: you don't have enough draft (this is equal to: your chimney is not tall enough) and your stove leaks.
Even if you fix the leak, your stove won't work well if the chimney is not tall.
Second, and more importantly, get a smoke detector AND a carbon monoxide detector. These are not nuisances. If you value your life and that of your kids you HAVE to use these.
Given your stove and chimney, and if you want to be able to talk about this a few years down the road, I suggest to stop using your stove now. Filling your home with smoke (which will include CO) can kill you before you notice it. Especially at night.
Your lives are more important than anything else.
Even if you fix the leak, your stove won't work well if the chimney is not tall.
Second, and more importantly, get a smoke detector AND a carbon monoxide detector. These are not nuisances. If you value your life and that of your kids you HAVE to use these.
Given your stove and chimney, and if you want to be able to talk about this a few years down the road, I suggest to stop using your stove now. Filling your home with smoke (which will include CO) can kill you before you notice it. Especially at night.
Your lives are more important than anything else.
Uh, kinda scary...YIKES!@bholler would answer this better on the dynamics; but no, not necessarily. It's not just volume but also flow rate I think...
Note that from my last post the new EPA stoves are best with double wall pipe to keep the pipe hot to keep the draft. Single wall cools too much and loses draft by releasing the heat into the room and creating creosote - BAD
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Although having a stove that warps equals having a fire in a scrap metal box in your home (i.e.get rid of it), for.the chimney you have to find the stove model first. Find the manual next. And find the chimney requirements to run the thing safely third.
Going 8" on a hunch might make things more dangerous (overfiring leading to a house fire or more reverse draft leading to dead people b/c of CO).
I'm sorry, but having a fire in a home is dangerous, and you have to do it right or not at all.
Absolutely!
Rule #1. Burn dry wood
Rule #2. BURN DRY WOOD
Check moisture with a moisture meter on a room temperature fresh split. I got one for $14. It's not a good one, bit it gives me an idea. Under 20% is the general rule. 22-25% ash will burn, 22-25% oak...not so much.
Read and research everything you can. Watch videos about top down firestarting. Do everything you can to educate yourself about stoves, the difference between stovepipe and chimney pipe, ceiling & roof pass thru's, clearances to combustibles, floor protection, etc.
YIKES
I hope it warms up soon! It's so cold this week. Even in Arkansas. Can't even get a fire to keep burning in it now. Ran out of seasoned firewood because it blew through the wood so darn fast and the chainsaw wouldn't stay running long enough to get plenty of wood cut. Guess it's just as well. We may be chilly but at least we'll be alive! Time to pile on the blankets!Sure hope that tax return (or stimulus $$?) gets here soon. :D
Extend your chimney first. A new stove will work even worse on a short chimney like thatYIKES
Sure hope that tax return (or stimulus $$?) gets here soon. :D
Seriously, if we have to make the chimney taller, HOW? When we put the addition onto the house, we can actually make it a lower room (think bi-level). The land is sloped down immediately in front of the house so it'll actually be easier to build it a few steps down. That will make it easier to have a higher ceiling in that room--perhaps 4-5 feet taller. What I'm getting at is that if we were to move the wood stove to the addition, the chimney wouldn't have to stick up quite so far above the roof. My husband's concern is that if we make the chimney taller, we'll have to brace it, which means risking more roof leaks where the braces are attached to the roof. Every place he has to drill a hole or drill anything into the roof, there is the potential for leaks. Any other suggestions?
Start hoarding firewood too. Most of us try to get 3 years ahead to ensure it'll be seasoned properly. Start with quick seasoning woods. There are firewood BTU charts on sticky notes here. I found another one somewhere else that gave approximate seasoning times with the BTU chart.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Yes, as far as I know, bracing is the only way. Should be possible to do it right as it happens all the time with people needing taller stacks.
Moving it to the addition may be the best choice. In the meantime, if unwilling to brace to the roof, perhaps attaching a post to the exterior side that runs up 4 - 6 feet above roofline then attach the brace to the post? No holes in the roof at least, just the siding.
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